3-wheel scooters
Comments
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Versus 2 decent front tyres?
That's why all the new GP bikes have two front wheels. Oh hang on you could just use a decent front tyre.If you`d ever ridden one, you`d know why.
The confidence you can put in the front end of these things is unreal.
You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Please tell me that's a photoshop joke
For some reason, reminds me of
http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/fuck-everything-were-doing-five-blades-11056
I.e. expecting a 5 wheeler soon. With aloe strip.
That Onion rant is utterly world class
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
I like to think that in the next few unseen frames he vaults back onto the bike CX style and rejoins the race
Didn't need to, he crossed the finish line. This guy however... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiH2uLGSBOw&fmt=18
The one that always comes to mind for me is Randy Mamola:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNufVUSGlY8
That was 1985 though - might be showing my age.
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That's why all the new GP bikes have two front wheels. Oh hang on you could just use a decent front tyre.If you`d ever ridden one, you`d know why.
The confidence you can put in the front end of these things is unreal.
I`m sorry, what are you on about ?Trek,,,, too cool for school ,, apparently0 -
Doubling the amount of rubber in contact with the road surely increases grip.
I thought you were suggesting that you get superior front end grip due to the two wheels. Which is incorrect. You may however feel more confident I suppose.
That's why all the new GP bikes have two front wheels. Oh hang on you could just use a decent front tyre.If you`d ever ridden one, you`d know why.
The confidence you can put in the front end of these things is unreal.
I`m sorry, what are you on about ?You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Doubling the amount of rubber in contact with the road surely increases grip.
I thought you were suggesting that you get superior front end grip due to the two wheels. Which is incorrect. You may however feel more confident I suppose.
That's why all the new GP bikes have two front wheels. Oh hang on you could just use a decent front tyre.If you`d ever ridden one, you`d know why.
The confidence you can put in the front end of these things is unreal.
I`m sorry, what are you on about ?
GP bikes have one front wheel because they're bikes... whether 3 wheels is faster or more grippy is another argument.
I'd expect a 3 wheeler will be more stable, for the same reason that a car is more stable. And, sure, the hugely widened wheel base at the front is bound to be confidence inspiring - or at least more forgiving. It'll feel more like a bike and stay upright more like a car.
Sounded a bit like Cyd and BnG were just arguing for internet points :roll:0 -
Right, who let the engineers take over this thread!?!?!?!?!?
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
I take it this is why people don't bother putting wider tyres on their cars or bikes to increase grip.
No it doesn't. The friction between two surfaces is proportional to the coefficient of friction between the two media in contact and proportional to the mass being exerted on the interface. The area of the contact patch is irrelevant. So two tyres each give exactly half the grip each, that one tyre would give by itself.Doubling the amount of rubber in contact with the road surely increases grip.
F=uN0 -
Yes I agree - that is true in a sense of the physical interaction between two surfaces. If you double the area then you halve the contact pressure and the two cancel each other out.
No it doesn't. The friction between two surfaces is proportional to the coefficient of friction between the two media in contact and proportional to the mass being exerted on the interface. The area of the contact patch is irrelevant. So two tyres each give exactly half the grip each, that one tyre would give by itself.
Doubling the amount of rubber in contact with the road surely increases grip.
I thought you were suggesting that you get superior front end grip due to the two wheels. Which is incorrect. You may however feel more confident I suppose.
That's why all the new GP bikes have two front wheels. Oh hang on you could just use a decent front tyre.If you`d ever ridden one, you`d know why.
The confidence you can put in the front end of these things is unreal.
I`m sorry, what are you on about ?
F=uN
However, we are talking about rubber and road here. The road surface is imperfect and rubber deforms into that surface providing lateral resistance - and of course rubber softens with heat and has adhesive properties. All this contributes to the total amount of grip.
The physics of friction are of course critical to grip but it is not the whole story.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
I take it this is why people don't bother putting wider tyres on their cars or bikes to increase grip.
No it doesn't. The friction between two surfaces is proportional to the coefficient of friction between the two media in contact and proportional to the mass being exerted on the interface. The area of the contact patch is irrelevant. So two tyres each give exactly half the grip each, that one tyre would give by itself.Doubling the amount of rubber in contact with the road surely increases grip.
F=uN
Plus the weight of the additional wheel and all that fancy parallelogram stuff means the mass being exerted on the front end, and therefore the grip at the interface, is significantly increased?0 -
I take it this is why people don't bother putting wider tyres on their cars or bikes to increase grip.
No it doesn't. The friction between two surfaces is proportional to the coefficient of friction between the two media in contact and proportional to the mass being exerted on the interface. The area of the contact patch is irrelevant. So two tyres each give exactly half the grip each, that one tyre would give by itself.Doubling the amount of rubber in contact with the road surely increases grip.
F=uN
Plus the weight of the additional wheel and all that fancy parallelogram stuff means the mass being exerted on the front end, and therefore the grip at the interface, is significantly increased?
plus that more stable front end can probably be pushed far harder, and will probably drift rather than snap loose.
Grip being purely a load on the tyre is frankly improbable even on the smoothest surfaces.
tyre construction/compound/tread/and so on can have quite dramatic effects.
I switched to riding the old MTB vs the roadie SS a year and a bit ago, The MTB I can barrel though greasy wet bends etc the increase in grip is very noticeable.0 -
No it doesn't. The friction between two surfaces is proportional to the coefficient of friction between the two media in contact and proportional to the mass being exerted on the interface. The area of the contact patch is irrelevant. So two tyres each give exactly half the grip each, that one tyre would give by itself.
Doubling the amount of rubber in contact with the road surely increases grip.
I thought you were suggesting that you get superior front end grip due to the two wheels. Which is incorrect. You may however feel more confident I suppose.
That's why all the new GP bikes have two front wheels. Oh hang on you could just use a decent front tyre.If you`d ever ridden one, you`d know why.
The confidence you can put in the front end of these things is unreal.
I`m sorry, what are you on about ?
F=uN
That's only in a lab - in the real world you find the contact patch is much more relevant and the weight really manifests in the calculation of the force needed to turn and the size of the contact patch. Wide tyres work through a combination of good size contact area and fact that a wide tyre bottom will give a large range of slip angle through which the tyre works efficiently in producing a lateral force to change the direction of travel0 -
that's either called "thank god I've got steel toe caps and knee plates"
or "I could have sworn there was a side-car here when I set off"
to the original question, ideal commuting vehicle for those that want to get through the traffic but want something safer than a regular mbike / scooter.Bianchi Infinito CV
Bianchi Via Nirone 7 Ultegra
Brompton S Type
Carrera Vengeance Ultimate Ltd
Gary Fisher Aquila '98
Front half of a Viking Saratoga Tandem0 -
If you are talking about these:
They are a hoot.
- firstly in heavy urban traffic where you are stop, start, stop, start, not having to put your feet down on a 150kg+ bike every time your stop is quite pleasant.
- secondly you can whip almost anyone's ar*se on anything similar in wet urban traffic as they handle very well and two wheels up front grip better than 1.
I had a go on a 400cc one at a dealer demo a while back - the perfect commuter super scooter, though it weighed a lot and wasn't that quick. Since the early models they have changed the design so its no longer a motorbike license.
I'd only consider it if I didn't have a motorbike license and wanted a super scooter without the hassle of the bike test.
On the friction/grip argument - you need to be thinking about how the mass is being transferred to the tyres - if you think about how the front goes on a bend, unless you are quick and very talented you'll go down if the front washes out as the gravity vs momentum will suddenly change, normally resulting in gravity winning. On a twin wheeled scoot that simply doesn't happen the same way.0 -
Well
Not that I was arguing with anyone, but yes, the double front with great tyres does out perform in terms of grip and confidence.
You can get at sciencey as you like, but on the road it`s pretty noticeable..
Remember scooters tend to have short travel suspension and rear biased weight distribution, so front end performance is not all it could be. The added grip and slighty wider contact base make for a very stable front end that instills confidence, especially in the wet.Trek,,,, too cool for school ,, apparently0 -
There will be more grip than with a motorbike because you are placing one of the contact patches on a bigger turning radius than the vehicle CoG. Same reason cars can generate more lat.acc. than bikes.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0
