It's definitely getting worse out there...
Karlos69
Posts: 107
I've been riding the roads in and around Leeds for over 35 years and I never ever had any issues with other motorists. OK the odd near miss, but it's the verbal abuse and impatience and aggression that is definitely getting worse.
What I am personally finding now however, is that when I ride defensively - ie a metre out from parked car doors, or closing down a potential pinch point in advance of getting to it, I get really aggressive motorists blaring their horns and winding their windows down and shouting "why are you riding in the middle of the road"!
I think this whole "cyclists vs. cars war" thing is being publicised a bit too much in the media in a negative way, and the helmet camera vigilantes aren't helping either. It might even be due to the increased number of new cyclists.
Anyway, whatever the reason, I am sensing a real "anti cyclist" vibe these days.
What I am personally finding now however, is that when I ride defensively - ie a metre out from parked car doors, or closing down a potential pinch point in advance of getting to it, I get really aggressive motorists blaring their horns and winding their windows down and shouting "why are you riding in the middle of the road"!
I think this whole "cyclists vs. cars war" thing is being publicised a bit too much in the media in a negative way, and the helmet camera vigilantes aren't helping either. It might even be due to the increased number of new cyclists.
Anyway, whatever the reason, I am sensing a real "anti cyclist" vibe these days.
Cannondale Killer V
Trek 6500
Cannondale Bad Boy
LOOK KG176
Giant TCR Composite 1
Trek 6500
Cannondale Bad Boy
LOOK KG176
Giant TCR Composite 1
0
Comments
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There definitely is. Gets stronger by the dayPegoretti
Colnago
Cervelo
Campagnolo0 -
I reckon its better now than ever, I remember the days when blokes/lads in cars would hassle you just for wearing 'gay' lycra
Ive found that tolerance is much better these days, genberally.2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
I've found on recent rides that there are more drivers who give me time and space around hazards. This is with me riding assertively, to defend my position up to those points. A wave of thanks from me reinforces positive behaviour.
When drivers have held back rather than blasting into a long blind bend, I will wave them through just as soon as I believe it is safe for them to pass. The usual response from these drivers is a wave of thanks or flashed hazards.
This doesn't go to say that there are not the usual number of muppet moments from other drivers.To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
It's weird because there are more people riding bikes now than there have been in many many years.
3000 riders on a local sportive. Its getting crazy popular. You would have though that cyclists in cars would have a bit more good will to people on bikes - but maybe not.0 -
I've been riding the roads in and around Leeds for over 35 years and I never ever had any issues with other motorists. OK the odd near miss, but it's the verbal abuse and impatience and aggression that is definitely getting worse.
What I am personally finding now however, is that when I ride defensively - ie a metre out from parked car doors, or closing down a potential pinch point in advance of getting to it, I get really aggressive motorists blaring their horns and winding their windows down and shouting "why are you riding in the middle of the road"!
I think this whole "cyclists vs. cars war" thing is being publicised a bit too much in the media in a negative way, and the helmet camera vigilantes aren't helping either. It might even be due to the increased number of new cyclists.
Anyway, whatever the reason, I am sensing a real "anti cyclist" vibe these days.
Ironically, in the interests of "road safety" councils insist on putting more of these pinch points on roads, meaning less space to overtake cyclists and hence in fact much less safe, as you have pointed out.0 -
I feel the reverse down here - this year has seen a marked improvement from drivers and I agree with Sirius that some courtesy given to those who aren't impatient goes a long way.
Maybe it's just the enlightened south! :P0 -
If people want to shout at me for trying to make myself stand out and be safe then I dont mind as at least its worked.
What does get to me is when they overtake and then miss the on coming car by inches at 30+ mph.... One day i'm sure I will watch a head-on and have to deal with picking up the pieces so to speak!!0 -
I got my first bottle hurled at me the other day.
I caught it, rode up, and handed it back. Pretended they were my DS. they were confused.Insert bike here:0 -
Generally I agree - but there are still the idiots out there - like the JPG lorry that nearly had me off yesterday ... just why do they have to pass that close?!I feel the reverse down here - this year has seen a marked improvement from drivers and I agree with Sirius that some courtesy given to those who aren't impatient goes a long way.
Maybe it's just the enlightened south! :P0 -
I got my first bottle hurled at me the other day.
I caught it, rode up, and handed it back. Pretended they were my DS. they were confused.
I'm guessing some tool who hoys a bottle at a complete stranger is very easily confused.0 -
Think it depends on where you ride. Local to me its mostly ok with the odd moment. 2 weeks ago, I took a trip to South Wales and was surprised how much nicer it was. Cars passing carefuly and when there was cars parked , they would stop and let me through.0
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I'm not convinced that it's getting worse. I cycle largely in The Marches and London, so Leeds is an unknown. However, I still enjoy riding as much as ever I did.
I think that the few incidents of dangerous behaviour, abuse or offered violence I've experienced or witnessed have been spread pretty evenly over the past four decades.
Traffic is heavier now than it was in my childhood. In cities it is often no faster; sometimes slower.
As a cyclist, I am more aware now of elderly motorists; I believe they may be more numerous and there may be a safety issue there. In the 60s and 70s, few septuagenerians and octogenrians were driving. On the few recent occasions when I've felt threatened by (or have been hit by) an unobservant motorist, it was an elderly driver. Also, many motorists today have never cycled, which may leave them unaware of how to share the highway.
As a motorist I sometimes find myself sharing the road with cyclists who give the impression that they are not drivers and never have been. This lack of awareness (on both sides) of the responsiveness and likely reaction times of both types of vehicle seems to me to be a significant cause of friction in the few cases where it is an issue.
But broadly, I find other road users (all modes) civil, skilled and aware. I think training is better today and the condition of vehicles is often better.0 -
If people want to shout at me for trying to make myself stand out and be safe then I dont mind as at least its worked.
This is how I feel, and I will continue to ride as I always have done. However, the chap who was shouting at me last night then proceeded to run me into the gutter as some sort of revenge move.
Maybe I've just had a few incidents in short succession, mainly in the city. It sounds like things are improving elsewhere.Cannondale Killer V
Trek 6500
Cannondale Bad Boy
LOOK KG176
Giant TCR Composite 10 -
That's what really annoys me - drivers passing too close, especially when a car is coming the other way. If there is a space in the traffic on an A road, they will usually pass with plenty of space, but if a car is coming the other way, rather than wait a few seconds for that car to pass, the car (or van, lorry or bus) on my side will pass too close, sometimes at 60mph on an A road. If I was to veer off line slightly or hit a pot hole, they could easily hit me. If a bus or lorry passes at speed the wind can cause me to wobble.
Generally I agree - but there are still the idiots out there - like the JPG lorry that nearly had me off yesterday ... just why do they have to pass that close?!I feel the reverse down here - this year has seen a marked improvement from drivers and I agree with Sirius that some courtesy given to those who aren't impatient goes a long way.
Maybe it's just the enlightened south! :P
I don't know if there has been any research into it, but I'm sure a lot of accidents by cars hitting cyclists must be caused by them passing too close.
The Highway Code says:
"give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 213) and 214 to 215)."
"Motorcyclists and cyclists may suddenly need to avoid uneven road surfaces and obstacles such as drain covers or oily, wet or icy patches on the road. Give them plenty of room and pay particular attention to any sudden change of direction they may have to make."
I think it would be good if there was more publicity around this issue to make motorists more aware of the dangers of passing cyclists too close.0 -
As much as I hate it, close passes don't statistically lead to many accidents. And in comparison to some driving cultures, UK drivers generally give you a huge amount of space.
I don't think things are getting worse. Sure, you will always encounter some lower primates which have managed to pass the driving test, but it seems to me that cycling is generally a more familiar concept to drivers than, say, 10 years ago.
I think its that cycling is the new golf, so a great many more people seem to know someone who cycles,even if they think its "too dangerous" to do it themselves.0 -
I've been riding the roads in and around Leeds for over 35 years and I never ever had any issues with other motorists. OK the odd near miss, but it's the verbal abuse and impatience and aggression that is definitely getting worse.
What I am personally finding now however, is that when I ride defensively - ie a metre out from parked car doors, or closing down a potential pinch point in advance of getting to it, I get really aggressive motorists blaring their horns and winding their windows down and shouting "why are you riding in the middle of the road"!
I think this whole "cyclists vs. cars war" thing is being publicised a bit too much in the media in a negative way, and the helmet camera vigilantes aren't helping either. It might even be due to the increased number of new cyclists.
Anyway, whatever the reason, I am sensing a real "anti cyclist" vibe these days.
As a motorist myself I can say that the experience of driving is getting ridiculously frustrating. Its even worse if your a young driver due to excessive insurance, plus restrictions in many cases. As a motorist you pay through the nose for maintenance, fuel and road related taxes (fuel duty, VED, VAT on the labour charges etc). You spend time and money training to drive and learning the rules. What do you (as a motorist) get in return for your efforts? You get penalised for minor mistakes and points added to your license. You pay enough to keep your car moving and then you pay more when you find a place to stop it. Your faced with road works, congestion and friggin traffic lights every few yards in many places. You eventually get to a clear motorway only to find more bastard speed cameras and a ridiculous speed limit of 50mph.
The result of all this are very irate motorists on a dwindling fuse in control of a 1 ton (or more) machine which is easily capable of killing people. I do not like to hold up people in cars, not even for a second or 2 if I can help it.0 -
I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.
You might find it is, but you're wrong.0 -
No. I am right.I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.
You might find it is, but you're wrong.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
You aren't. Driving is getting more difficult. Busier roads, more in-car distractions, more signage, more rules, larger number of types of junction, more road furniture.
No. I am right.I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.
You might find it is, but you're wrong.0 -
Resulting in a worse standard of driving.
You aren't. Driving is getting more difficult. Busier roads, more in-car distractions, more signage, more rules, larger number of types of junction, more road furniture.
No. I am right.I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.
You might find it is, but you're wrong.
And those are all excuses which wouldn't wash should in the result in an accident.
I would add in a more selfish attitude society wide.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Resulting in a worse standard of driving.
You aren't. Driving is getting more difficult. Busier roads, more in-car distractions, more signage, more rules, larger number of types of junction, more road furniture.
No. I am right.I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.
You might find it is, but you're wrong.
And those are all excuses which wouldn't wash should in the result in an accident.
I would add in a more selfish attitude society wide.
Wrong again.0 -
Outstanding contribution.
Resulting in a worse standard of driving.
You aren't. Driving is getting more difficult. Busier roads, more in-car distractions, more signage, more rules, larger number of types of junction, more road furniture.
No. I am right.I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.
You might find it is, but you're wrong.
And those are all excuses which wouldn't wash should in the result in an accident.
I would add in a more selfish attitude society wide.
Wrong again.
Again.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Outstanding contribution.
Resulting in a worse standard of driving.
You aren't. Driving is getting more difficult. Busier roads, more in-car distractions, more signage, more rules, larger number of types of junction, more road furniture.
No. I am right.I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop.
You might find it is, but you're wrong.
And those are all excuses which wouldn't wash should in the result in an accident.
I would add in a more selfish attitude society wide.
Wrong again.
Again.
Well, come on, you said "I find that the standard of driving is declining rapidly, full stop", you said that like it was an absolute fact, but it is not. Then, you try say that a "worse standard of driving" is caused by the driving complexities that the other guy said, it's not.
You're wrong. Deal with it.0 -
I say that with 40 years of driving experience doing over 20k miles per year that the standard of driving is getting terrible.You're wrong. Deal with it.
I stand by that regardless of your comments. Tell me how the standards are improving. And where.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I say that with 40 years of driving experience doing over 20k miles per year that the standard of driving is getting terrible.You're wrong. Deal with it.
I stand by that regardless of your comments. Tell me how the standards are improving. And where.
I m with PB on this, driving standards are appalling.
number of deaths/serious injuries may be down but that becasue speeds are lower (congestion) and increased safety features.
Minor accident rates are increasing, deaths serious injuries amongst non vehicle road users are also on an upward trend.
arrogant cyclists are also p1$$ing off more car drivers too.0 -
Oh come on, we all moan 'it's not as good as it used to be' about just about bloody everything, when infact it quite probably isn't.
In London & the suburbs, where cycling has reached a near critical mass, standards of driving towards cyclist are improving (they don't have a choice). I can't remember the last time someone shouted something at me. BUT this could also just coincide with my own standards improving.0 -
I don't want to be controversial, but do you think that some people *might* be applying some confirmation bias here?0
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It is definitely getting worse out there... There are far too many cyclists on the road.
Ten years ago I had Derbyshires country roads to myself but those once empty roads are now littered with nodding cyclists, clad head to toe in Hi-Viz.
I used to love the solitude of cycling but that has now been ruined... Cheers Brad.0 -
Out near holme Moss on Weds and it was a lovely day…quiet roads, NO wind!!
Got a real bell came up behind us..really close, and he couldn't pass, as like the OP we were a meter out, its not the defensive position in my vocabulary..its the survival position!! If they see you in the gutter they WILL pass, regardless of road width/oncoming or anything, so the meter is at lead the minimum for me. Anyway…this guy is really close, I mean like a support vehicle, and a van comes past us the other way, no incident, no drama, until the guy from behind revs the nuts off his van and draws alongside saying " YOU OUGHT TO THANK ME, I JUST SAVED YOUR F ING LIFE" to which I look at hime, smile say thank you and ask him how he had carried out that great humanitarian gesture, he said "YOU WERE ALL OVER THE PLACE, LEARN TO RIDE YOU PAIR OF C---S!" and off he goes. My mate was as bemused as me! One poster suggested they had the oppossite going on in the south!! Well its rather like the big economic recovery methinks… its all great INSIDE the M25, but up here in the boondocks..things are not quite so brilliant!
Anyone who cycles regularly round Sheffield will know what I mean, aggression is the default from a lot of people towards cyclists, and the sad fact is most cyclists are drivers too, so we do know the HORROR of waiting 30secs longer to pass a bike!!!0
