CHEDECH: Quest to design the ultimate folding bike!
chedech
Posts: 32
Hi Everyone! For the past few years we've had a team of passionate cyclists, designers, and manufacturing specialists working hard to create the ultimate folding bike for commuting and other around-the-town trips that require speed, comfort, and the convenience of hand-carry. We've produced a few exciting prototypes that we are currently refining to increase strength while reducing weight. We could use your help to improve our design. Our quest is to build the ultimate folding bike. We hope to have an official release in the upcoming months. Our four basic goals:
1. Folds small in one quick moment, with ease.
2. Light enough to carry by hand.
3. Glides fast and pleasant to ride.
4. Absorbs riding impact for comfort.
Please feel free to post any comments, questions, suggestions, and feedback. Thank you, and safe cycling!
1. Folds small in one quick moment, with ease.
2. Light enough to carry by hand.
3. Glides fast and pleasant to ride.
4. Absorbs riding impact for comfort.
Please feel free to post any comments, questions, suggestions, and feedback. Thank you, and safe cycling!
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Comments
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What a great idea, British Engineering making a push.
Seeing one of your goals was lightness I was wondering if having the rear suspension was such a good idea?
Not a criticism, but if you lost that then you'd save weight and cut down on the build and as a result it would be cheaper.
In addition it would be one less maintenance area meaning it would be longer lasting, or cheaper to run.0 -
I would echo snakebite. Really not sure that suspension is necessary for a commuting folder and I say this as a commuter of ten years on London roads. Just give the bike clearance for larger tires.
Also - you might want to post this in 'commuting chat'. It's a bit livelier in there.Kinesis Racelite 4s disc
Kona Paddy Wagon
Canyon Roadlite Al 7.0 - reborn as single speed!
Felt Z85 - mangled by taxi.0 -
Also, is there a way that you can incorporate big lights?
I'm not sure how you could do it, but getting the thing the light up like a Christmas tree could be a good selling point.0 -
From a quick look at the schematic it seems to be quite cramped - what is the max distance from centre of bottom bracket to saddle-top? And from saddle to bars? Most bikes should be able to be used with the saddle at the same /above the height of the bars.
If I extend the saddle (in my minds eye) to the sort of height I would want (81.5 cm from bottom bracket) then it looks as if the centre of mass would be damned close the back wheel which could cause stability problems and difficulties with steering.
But great project - really like the idea; I would say that you are up against a real dominant player though in the UKs largest bicycle manufacturer0 -
Imatfaal, thanks for good wishes and the good question, "What is the max distance from centre of bottom bracket to saddle-top? And from saddle to bars?"
Let me find out the specs and get back to you. And yes, breaking into a dominated market will be a challenge. Hopefully, we achieve our goal and make something bike riders are excited about. ;-)0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19677774#p19677774]Snakebite the 2nd[/url] wrote:Seeing one of your goals was lightness I was wondering if having the rear suspension was such a good idea?
Not a criticism, but if you lost that then you'd save weight and cut down on the build and as a result it would be cheaper. In addition it would be one less maintenance area meaning it would be longer lasting, or cheaper to run.
Hi!! Thanks for posting. You ask a great question, Mr. Sweary and Snakebite the 2nd.
This, and many other features, were and continue to be topics of great debate. The rear suspension is the perfect example of our teams' thought and questioning process — "Should we increase the weight a little to add a smoother ride?" As a folding bike rider, if the rear suspension was an option (let's say free for the sake of this question), would you choose to have it or not?
May I also pose this question to others . . .0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19678857#p19678857]Snakebite the 2nd[/url] wrote:Also, is there a way that you can incorporate big lights? I'm not sure how you could do it, but getting the thing the light up like a Christmas tree could be a good selling point.
Snakebite the 2nd, Big lights would be cool. I imagine they would have to be flat or another shape that would be conducive to folding. Let me run this by the chief and get back to you! Continued thanks for posting.0 -
. . .Also - you might want to post this in 'commuting chat'. It's a bit livelier in there.
MrSweary, any idea how we could move this thread? The more livelier the better.0 -
Regarding having or not having rear suspension: We carefully considered this option, and may reconsider it, but for now the first version will have rear suspension covered by carbon guard.
Question: In the future, would you like to see rear suspension as an option?
Regarding big lights for safety and visibility: Thank you for the good advice. This is worth looking into and we are!
Regarding the max distance from centre of bottom bracket to saddle-top? And from saddle to bars: We will prepare detailed size information very soon. At the moment, we are testing several different sizes for the handle post and seat post, and it will take a few more days until we finalize the standard size. However, this is a minvelo, which means that we will only release one size frame. Therefore, some extremely tall or short riders would probably feel uncomfortable on it, but we are trying to minimize that limitation. This bike can surprisingly accommodate a wide range of riders. However, in order to maintain safety and a good ride, cyclists should be under 110kg (weight limitation may be adjusted during the final stage of development). We are currently testing several different lengths of handle post and seat post and also we are thinking that we will adopt two different handle bar, which will allow more gaps between tall and small riders. And also riders can also use many different style handle bars because Chedech is an android bike that will be compatible with other 3rd party handle bars. And that goes for saddle, too. Therefore, if the stock handle bars and saddle don’t suit you, you can easily replace them in order to fit your body size better.0 -
. . .Also - you might want to post this in 'commuting chat'. It's a bit livelier in there.
MrSweary, any idea how we could move this thread? The more livelier the better.
You could ask a mod if you can find one.
On your other question - I'm not actually sure I would have suspension. It would depend on what form it takes and how it affects handling / power transfer.
However I can see how it might appeal to the more casual commuter.Kinesis Racelite 4s disc
Kona Paddy Wagon
Canyon Roadlite Al 7.0 - reborn as single speed!
Felt Z85 - mangled by taxi.0 -
. . .Also - you might want to post this in 'commuting chat'. It's a bit livelier in there. I'm not actually sure I would have suspension. It would depend on what form it takes and how it affects handling / power transfer. However I can see how it might appeal to the more casual commuter.
The initial version of Chedech will have suspension, but I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes an option or there is another model without. The decision would probably be based on demand. I need to find out how much weight is added by the suspension.0 -
ll comments, questions, and suggestions are welcome! We remain committed to creating the ultimate folding bike, which will primarily be made of carbon fiber. We produced a new prototype with a different design, but I'm having trouble inserting the images directly into the thread.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2qhi6rzzx3zi1oa/IMG_2321.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xbs8un8wnaql4lg/IMG_2322.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/efs17rscvic43ih/IMG_2323.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8y7nuot4vw6asn/IMG_2325.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i2u3o30je74sabw/IMG_2326.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8behxiu4b8ci9gx/IMG_2332.JPG?dl=00 -
Will any forum members be visiting interbike in Las Vegas? We would like the opportunity to meet you and show you Chedech in person.
http://www.interbike.com0 -
I'm hoping the moderators or administrators can help me relocated this thread to the commuter bike section as Mr. Sweary suggested.0
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It is a reactively moderated forum. You can bring it to the mods' attention using the 'Report this post' button on each post.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0 -
obvious design point: how to differentiate from the very similar-looking Brompt.
A few suggestions:
- compactness. The Brompt is almost small enough to fit airline carry on sizes, but not quite. You might have to consider narrow hubs though, to get the folded size right
- rear suspension is really not required. It doesn't add complexity to your design though.
- ensure tyres & tubes are fairly common size, for ease of spares
- think compatibility with Brompt luggage perhaps?
- front light option on the front reflector, or on the bars.
- how about stubby bar ends (I use these on a Brompt) - nb check to ensure they don't foul the folding. You could mount front LED flashers in the bar ends
- consider storage options (eg using seat post as storage for tools, pump, spare tube)
- how about belt drive rather than chain? Cleaner for commuting (less chance of oil on clothes)
- would like the option to select stem length, to try and replicate my road position (eg Brompt has one stem length for the S type, which is frustratingly an inch or too high.)
- dual sided pedals (SPD one side) - with folding pedal
- rear saddle-mounted light (awkward having a seatpost one, as you have to remove it when folding)
- luggage options - would be great to have a hard case (on wheels) that you could tow (See Bike Friday)Commute: Langster -Singlecross - Brompton S2-LX
Road: 95 Trek 5500 -Look 695 Aerolight eTap - Boardman TTe eTap
Offroad: Pace RC200 - Dawes Kickback 2 tandem - Tricross - Boardman CXR9.8 - Ridley x-fire0 -
obvious design point: how to differentiate from the very similar-looking Brompt. A few suggestions . . . .
Thank you so much for taking the time to write a fantastic list. Let me pass this along to the team and return with a response (hopefully soon).0 -
It is a reactively moderated forum. You can bring it to the mods' attention using the 'Report this post' button on each post.
I took your advice. Hopefully the mods can relocate this thread for more exposure in a more appropriate place. It was my mistake by starting the thread in the wrong sections. Still, thanks for the posts and continuing to post.0 -
Do you think carbon fibre is a suitable material for a folding bike? I don't think it would last long being lugged around on public transport, dumped on escalators etc. There's a reason Bromptons are made from steel.0
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Do you think carbon fibre is a suitable material for a folding bike? I don't think it would last long being lugged around on public transport, dumped on escalators etc. There's a reason Bromptons are made from steel.
Chedech is designed for folding bike users who wished their bike was lighter. We are certain that our carbon fiber and manufacturing process will be durable and strong enough for normal, everyday urban abuse. It will not withstand mountain bike mayhem, but it will be perfectly suited for zipping around the town, jumping on buses, carrying up stairs, and hiding under your desk.0 -
I'm not trying to be dismissive, but... I'd check if the Brompton fold had a patent filed for it. If it has, I'd be prepared for trouble trying to sell it in the UK/EU.
Apologies for being a bit negative; I love the sound of a carbon folder, but it seems just too similar to the Brompton, albeit the material it's made from. I'm assuming Brompton don't sell in Korea...Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
I'm not trying to be dismissive, but... I'd check if the Brompton fold had a patent filed for it. If it has, I'd be prepared for trouble trying to sell it in the UK/EU. Apologies for being a bit negative; I love the sound of a carbon folder, but it seems just too similar to the Brompton, albeit the material it's made from. I'm assuming Brompton don't sell in Korea...
No need to apologize. We are grateful for your interest, comments, concern, and advice. We are completely in compliance with all patents/copyrights. This was the primary issue we needed to overcome at the onset of design. We are a Korean based company that prides itself on being professional and honest. We realize copyright laws are not always followed by some manufacturing regions, but that is not and will not be the case with Chedech! Our bike will share some common folding bike features; yet, be unique in ways that justify its production — carbon fiber frame being the most notable feature. ;-)0 -
Sounds good. Thanks for your openness, and good luck with the launch.Shand Skinnymalinky
Argon 18 Radon0 -
I don't think that is correct mate - I'm sure that the Brompton fold is patented - there was a copy from the far east that brompton pretty effectively closed down (I forget the name). It is a very different fold from the majority of folders out there.
I've ridden a fair few folders and the problem for me is that the Brompton fold is by far the best fold leaving the most compact size on the market. The middle "hinge" is ok, but leaves a bigger package, as does things that you just cannot change the size on - cranks/pedals and most crucially wheels.
The less folding bits, the better as these are the parts that are under pressure/stress, but then this also adversely affects the size of the package.
I would say suspension is totally unnecessary - you'd be better allowing for slightly fatter tyres.
Depending on what your aims are, you want to try to ensure that you use as many non-proprietary parts as possible, or use as many as possible to ensure you have an ongoing business - provided that you are prepared to run a spares business.
I think Carbon Fibre is an awful choice of material for a commuting folding bike. They need to be robust.
Lightness is a consideration - the Dahon MuSl got under 10kg and was an al bike.
The other thing to think about is chainline - if this is on the outside of the folded bike then you have "dirt" issues.http://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
Chec, I moved this to commuting chat as requested yesterday. Look at the breadcrumb in order to see where you are. Here you are, in here...!BikeRadar Community0
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Our four basic goals:
1. Folds small in one quick moment, with ease.
2. Light enough to carry by hand.
3. Glides fast and pleasant to ride.
4. Absorbs riding impact for comfort.
<<Puts on business case hat>>
Do these objectives have any measurable targets against them - for example, folded size, weight range, etc.? Also cost is a primary consideration (both of manufacture and to the consumer).
The other consideration is "what is already on the market, and what do we offer that's better?" - there's any number of foldies out there, plus alternatives such as Boris bikes (and other hire schemes), etc. The most popular choice in London seems to be the Brompton, which folds well but is costly and - IMHO - is a bit weird to ride. But crucially - possibly by accident - it's in tune with the current consumer trend for 'customisation' - being able to make a mass-produced item 'individual' (think Mini).
So what is the USP of your offering going to be?
PS: I'm not trying to dismiss your concept - far from it, I think that Brompton have had it far too much their own way for too long - but these are the business considerations you need to think about (unless this is purely an academic exercise).
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
Funny seeing as how Carbon fibre is actually the most robust bike frame material in current mass usage (Titanium reinforced is even better, but rarely used).I think Carbon Fibre is an awful choice of material for a commuting folding bike. They need to be robust.
.Currently riding a Whyte T130C, X0 drivetrain, Magura Trail brakes converted to mixed wheel size (homebuilt wheels) with 140mm Fox 34 Rhythm and RP23 suspension. 12.2Kg.0 -
Funny seeing as how Carbon fibre is actually the most robust bike frame material in current mass usage (Titanium reinforced is even better, but rarely used).I think Carbon Fibre is an awful choice of material for a commuting folding bike. They need to be robust.
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Hmmmm...it may be that the subjective strength is the issue - for example, I own steel, alu and carbon bikes, and the carbon one is the only one that I fret about knocking/bumping/dropping (not that I make a habit of it...!)
There's a perception - rightly or wrongly - that carbon bikes are strong whilst being ridden, but very susceptible to 'day to day' damage. Whereas metal (Steel, Alu or Ti) is seen as "tough"
It's just a hill. Get over it.0 -
If I could get rid of the suspension on my Brompton S2 then I would. It saps energy when riding. A decent seat post and a decent saddle will provide sufficient comfort.Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
Race - Fuji Norcom Straight
Sun - Cervelo R3
Winter / Commute - Dolan ADX0 -
Funny seeing as how Carbon fibre is actually the most robust bike frame material in current mass usage (Titanium reinforced is even better, but rarely used).I think Carbon Fibre is an awful choice of material for a commuting folding bike. They need to be robust.
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You may be interested in the helix - a folding lightweight Ti bike on Kickstarter.Location: ciderspace0
