TrainerRoad, Wahoo KICKR and FTP
E65Ross
Posts: 23
Hi everyone, first post here so please be kind 
Quick question to those who use TrainerRoad....I'm wondering whether the calculation for my FTP is correct or not...
I just did a 20 minute test. I had a problem with the trainer moving at around 12-13mins into the 20minute effort so for a short spell I had to pause the workout to quickly move it and get back on the bike. This altered my heart rate so the estimated FTHR is obviously going to be a little low but I'm curious as to the power.
For some reason the trainer went into ERG mode, I was led to believe it would be in "level" mode. anyway.....here is a screenshot of the result
Now, you can see that for the bulk of it I was hanging on to around 210W or so, and my HR was somewhere around the 165-170 mark for most of it.
It gave me an FTP if 170W and a FTHR of 137, can that be right? I apprecite the heart rate would clearly be higher but what about the power?
I have noticed that going back into the 20 minute test with an FTP of 170 asks me to try a power of 183 for the 20 minute period. You can see that I can easily do that, as I averaged over 200.....it seems as though the FTP value is too low? Looking online it says to take the 20 minute average and multiply by 0.95. My average was around 208 if you take the 1st couple of minutes of around 180W into the equations. This would give an FTP of 198W which seems a bit more realistic!
Having plugged that number into TrainerRoad and gone to enter the 20 minute test again it's asking for me to try around 210W for the 20min effort....which is about what I did! This would give me an FTP/KG of about 4W/kg
So should i just change my FTP manually to 198?
For reference, my 40km best is 1 hour 20mins.....that may give a few of you an idea as to roughly what the FTP value should be (I'm a 53kg rider, so not heavy!!)
Many thanks in advance
Quick question to those who use TrainerRoad....I'm wondering whether the calculation for my FTP is correct or not...
I just did a 20 minute test. I had a problem with the trainer moving at around 12-13mins into the 20minute effort so for a short spell I had to pause the workout to quickly move it and get back on the bike. This altered my heart rate so the estimated FTHR is obviously going to be a little low but I'm curious as to the power.
For some reason the trainer went into ERG mode, I was led to believe it would be in "level" mode. anyway.....here is a screenshot of the result
Now, you can see that for the bulk of it I was hanging on to around 210W or so, and my HR was somewhere around the 165-170 mark for most of it.
It gave me an FTP if 170W and a FTHR of 137, can that be right? I apprecite the heart rate would clearly be higher but what about the power?
I have noticed that going back into the 20 minute test with an FTP of 170 asks me to try a power of 183 for the 20 minute period. You can see that I can easily do that, as I averaged over 200.....it seems as though the FTP value is too low? Looking online it says to take the 20 minute average and multiply by 0.95. My average was around 208 if you take the 1st couple of minutes of around 180W into the equations. This would give an FTP of 198W which seems a bit more realistic!
Having plugged that number into TrainerRoad and gone to enter the 20 minute test again it's asking for me to try around 210W for the 20min effort....which is about what I did! This would give me an FTP/KG of about 4W/kg
So should i just change my FTP manually to 198?
For reference, my 40km best is 1 hour 20mins.....that may give a few of you an idea as to roughly what the FTP value should be (I'm a 53kg rider, so not heavy!!)
Many thanks in advance
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Comments
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If you paused, then any calculation based on time should be including that paused time, so it's almost certainly working entirely correctly, just do it again properly without pausing.
80 minutes to ride a 40km TT, at ~200watts, that's pretty poor, you can get a lot more aero...Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Thanks for your reply. I will do it again at some stage but not just yet! But it does look like 200W is about right based on the chart.
40km is actually my "fastest 40km" from my garmin edge..... It was actually set during a much longer ride! But it was around a 19mph average I think. I appreciate that it means very little but just a small insight into my fitness. Friday I cycled 87 miles on not so fresh legs (it meant a rolling week of 260+ miles!) with 3900ft climb at a 17.0 average
Based on that, would you say 200W is nearer the mark?
Many thanks again0 -
Oh, so it wasn't an actual race, then it's pretty meaningless as a number, as it would depend how hard you were riding, the wind direction, all sorts! Looking at your graph, I'm sure the 200 is more realistic, but I also think you can possibly go harder, your HR response is slow. Really though my advice is to forget about an "FTP" and just ride and train more, the test itself is a good training and you should just compare how the test progresses.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0
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I think I'll stick it at around 198 and try a few sessions and see how I get on!
To be honest with you, I don't think I could have gone much harder, my legs were toast at the end!
My only criticism with a lot of the trainer Road workouts is the warmup could be a little better. Some of them have you jumping quite near your FTP in under 10mins so for many I'll probably add a 10min section before to help a bit with that.
Many thanks for your help 0 -
The best test as to whether your training levels are right is to do some sessions and find out.
Either you can do them or you can't. If you can't then they are likely too high, so drop them next time. If you get through comfortably what should be pretty hard, then lift them next time.
Good luck with it!0 -
Your Kickr has locked in the wattage with it being in Erg mode, so therefore this isn't reflective of an actual FTP test - this should be be done in slope [or level mode I forget what it's termed on TR].
Just to further what Alex said above, I find some of the TR workouts too hard at my current level, so don't let some of the workouts put you off if you're following a plan.VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
W/kg - 4.90 -
Your Kickr has locked in the wattage with it being in Erg mode, so therefore this isn't reflective of an actual FTP test - this should be be done in slope [or level mode I forget what it's termed on TR].
Just to further what Alex said above, I find some of the TR workouts too hard at my current level, so don't let some of the workouts put you off if you're following a plan.
Any ideas why it locked the wattage? You can clearly see it didn't for the 5min effort. Either way, the locked wattage just so happened to be JUST about what I could hold.
I may try the test Wednesday after some rest tomorrow..... But how can I be sure it won't lock the wattage like last time? I started the session in level 0 mode so I could use the gears and warm up exactly as I wanted to.
Thanks again for any further input.0 -
If you leave it at default it will switch from Erg to [slope] just before the 20 min test starts. I assume as you've switched it at the start of the workout, the programme has told the Kickr to switch and that has made it go back to Erg mode.
So I would either leave it alone at the start of the workout or make sure when TR tells the Kickr to 'switch' that you manually adjust it again [if you want to do a custom warmup].VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
W/kg - 4.90 -
If you leave it at default it will switch from Erg to [slope] just before the 20 min test starts. I assume as you've switched it at the start of the workout, the programme has told the Kickr to switch and that has made it go back to Erg mode.
So I would either leave it alone at the start of the workout or make sure when TR tells the Kickr to 'switch' that you manually adjust it again [if you want to do a custom warmup].
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to do another test soon. I will probably leave my FTP at 197 and do a few sessions which are meant to be quite tough and see how I get on. I'll do another test in a few weeks.
What happens in ERG mode if you really struggle and can't match the power? Unlike the other modes you can't just spin easily to rest for a bit.... You just have to stop and pause it?0 -
If you leave it at default it will switch from Erg to [slope] just before the 20 min test starts. I assume as you've switched it at the start of the workout, the programme has told the Kickr to switch and that has made it go back to Erg mode.
So I would either leave it alone at the start of the workout or make sure when TR tells the Kickr to 'switch' that you manually adjust it again [if you want to do a custom warmup].
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to do another test soon. I will probably leave my FTP at 197 and do a few sessions which are meant to be quite tough and see how I get on. I'll do another test in a few weeks.
What happens in ERG mode if you really struggle and can't match the power? Unlike the other modes you can't just spin easily to rest for a bit.... You just have to stop and pause it?
Yep, exactly, you will simply be forced to stop pedaling. If you haven't already, please shoot us an email to support@trainerroad.com so we can take a look at why the Kickr never switched over to slope mode before the test interval.
Check out this article for a better description of ERG mode and why we try to avoid it during FTP tests: Testing on an ERG Trainer.0 -
If you leave it at default it will switch from Erg to [slope] just before the 20 min test starts. I assume as you've switched it at the start of the workout, the programme has told the Kickr to switch and that has made it go back to Erg mode.
So I would either leave it alone at the start of the workout or make sure when TR tells the Kickr to 'switch' that you manually adjust it again [if you want to do a custom warmup].
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to do another test soon. I will probably leave my FTP at 197 and do a few sessions which are meant to be quite tough and see how I get on. I'll do another test in a few weeks.
What happens in ERG mode if you really struggle and can't match the power? Unlike the other modes you can't just spin easily to rest for a bit.... You just have to stop and pause it?
Yep, exactly, you will simply be forced to stop pedaling. If you haven't already, please shoot us an email to support@trainerroad.com so we can take a look at why the Kickr never switched over to slope mode before the test interval.
Check out this article for a better description of ERG mode and why we try to avoid it during FTP tests: Testing on an ERG Trainer.
Thank you. I have been in contact with Corey (who's been absolutely fantastic by the way!) but not sure why it didn't swap to slope mode.
To get a more gentle warm up exactly as I like is it better to change the mode to level BEFORE pedalling or once the workout has already started? Or should it not make a difference? You can see, however, that I did (just) manage to hold onto the power it asked which would suggest an FTP of 200.....but I'll lower it to 197 and see how I get on.
Sound like an OK plan?
Thanks0 -
If you leave it at default it will switch from Erg to [slope] just before the 20 min test starts. I assume as you've switched it at the start of the workout, the programme has told the Kickr to switch and that has made it go back to Erg mode.
So I would either leave it alone at the start of the workout or make sure when TR tells the Kickr to 'switch' that you manually adjust it again [if you want to do a custom warmup].
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to do another test soon. I will probably leave my FTP at 197 and do a few sessions which are meant to be quite tough and see how I get on. I'll do another test in a few weeks.
What happens in ERG mode if you really struggle and can't match the power? Unlike the other modes you can't just spin easily to rest for a bit.... You just have to stop and pause it?
Yep, exactly, you will simply be forced to stop pedaling. If you haven't already, please shoot us an email to support@trainerroad.com so we can take a look at why the Kickr never switched over to slope mode before the test interval.
Check out this article for a better description of ERG mode and why we try to avoid it during FTP tests: Testing on an ERG Trainer.
Thank you. I have been in contact with Corey (who's been absolutely fantastic by the way!) but not sure why it didn't swap to slope mode.
To get a more gentle warm up exactly as I like is it better to change the mode to level BEFORE pedalling or once the workout has already started? Or should it not make a difference? You can see, however, that I did (just) manage to hold onto the power it asked which would suggest an FTP of 200.....but I'll lower it to 197 and see how I get on.
Sound like an OK plan?
Thanks
Great question. Personally, I enjoy the ERG warmup just because it forces me to hit exact power figures that I already know are effective in getting me ready for the test interval. However, it definitely wouldn't be bad to just do the entire workout in slope mode. Especially if you've never ridden in slope mode, seeing how your bike shifts on the Kickr and what the wattage changes are between each shift would be beneficial to learn before starting the test interval. If you still have that ticket open with Corey though, ask him to take a look into why the Kickr never switched over.
So it's important to know that the power you hold during the test interval isn't actually your FTP. For the 20 minute test, we take 5% off the power you hold for the test interval, and that is your FTP. The reason for this is FTP is your "hour power." So in 20 minutes of all-out riding, you can hold slightly more watts than you would be able to for an entire hour. So for an FTP of 200, you'd need to hold 210 for the test interval. Here's another good article on that subject: What is FTP0 -
On the FTP subject - is there a formula which shows how long you can spend over 100% of FTP?
Is it directly proportional - 20 mins @ 105%, 10 mins @ 110 % or is it more complicated than that?VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
W/kg - 4.90 -
On the FTP subject - is there a formula which shows how long you can spend over 100% of FTP?
Is it directly proportional - 20 mins @ 105%, 10 mins @ 110 % or is it more complicated than that?
Far more complex than that and as power changes significantly the differences between person to person will be bigger as muscle fibre type etc will play more of a role. A 20 minute effort is largely aerobic so can be compared reasonably accurately to a 1 hour effort. A much shorter period and it gets much more difficult to make assumptions.
For example, in athletics Usain Bolt could sustain max power output for a little longer than Mo Farah whilst also generating more power. Yet Mo Farah would have a MUCH better FTP. Not the best example but you get the picture.0 -
Well that was horrible
Did the 20 minute test again....but AGAIN it went into ERG mode (you can see on the attached image where....a few mins into the test). It did it at a set of instructions which makes me think that it's built into the programme. Luckily, I had a keyboard next to me, hit the "M" button and it went straight back into slope/level mode and I carried on.
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FTP updated to 206 (thats 3.9W/kg....as I'm a lightweight!) but my FTHR is 140.....can that be right!? my HR was hovering around the 170 mark most of the time!!
Anyway....I'm not going to be doing that test for a while, probably not for another 2-3 months or so.
Ross.0
