£4000 dream bike

2

Comments

  • cc.cycle
    cc.cycle Posts: 29
    I don't see a problem with mixing Shimano group with Campag wheels.

    I would go much higher spec with the wheels, though zondas are nice for every day and winter
  • I'd get a stainless steel frame made up and kit it out with whatever Campag and handbuilt wheels the remainder would buy.
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    edited August 2015
    You decry top end (heck, even mid range) framesets and wheels but suggest spending the money on expensive finishing components and a top end groupset (which does exactly nothing better than 6800)? Irony...

    Alot of those parts were bought discounted on sale. Thats exactly why i snapped them up. That's my point. Play the game! Some were bought for weight reasons, some aesthetic. Thankfully the bike IS better because of them. I couldn't be more satisfied. Your right though i should of gone for Ultegra,i would of saved even more money.

    High end frames and wheels also do exactly nothing better. Can you see what im trying to say ?

    Where is your bike suggestion ?
  • Second hand Dogma :-)
  • tlw1
    tlw1 Posts: 21,792
    If I had to have a dream I guess I'd have a Colnago Master with Campag. Doesn't really need to be Super Record. In fact, I'd probably make sure I had a silver chainset. And, no to carbon wheels. I'd struggle to spend £500+ on nice silver handbuilts. So I guess it would be well within budget.

    This is what I did, though it's currently having the teenage years and has got carbon attached to it, give it a couple of years and it will be fully retro
  • kleinstroker
    kleinstroker Posts: 2,133
    Ooh! Ridley Helium SL in lotto retro team colours and full campy setup can be done for £4000.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    You decry top end (heck, even mid range) framesets and wheels but suggest spending the money on expensive finishing components and a top end groupset (which does exactly nothing better than 6800)? Irony...

    Alot of those parts were bought discounted on sale. Thats exactly why i snapped them up. That's my point. Play the game! Some were bought for weight reasons, some aesthetic. Thankfully the bike IS better because of them. I couldn't be more satisfied. Your right though i should have gone for Ultegra,i would have saved even more money.

    High end frames and wheels also do exactly nothing better. Can you see what im trying to say ?

    Where is your bike suggestion ?

    No. You can't seriously reconcile recommending an open-mould frame as a good buy when you can get a proper frame for nearly the same price if you look around and buy used. The frame is the most important part of the bike, it's what ties everything together. Would you marry an ugly girl with a terrible personality just because you can pretty her up with some fake boobs and a day at the salon? I think not...

    My suggestion was to buy my Storck. Damn good suggestion too...
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • hobbo31
    hobbo31 Posts: 107
    I got the Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0 with Di2 for 3200Euro thats £1000 cheaper than the UK plenty of cash left to upgrade tires and buy a new Garmin and all the bits


    what was the shop?

    Its called Culture Velo in Limoges great service even with my bad French
    Giant Trance X1 2008
    Gary Fisher Cobia 29er 2010
    Ribble Road Bike
    Giant XTC Composite 29er 2012
    Giant Defy Advanced Pro 0 2015
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    edited August 2015
    No. You can't seriously reconcile recommending an open-mould frame as a good buy when you can get a proper frame for nearly the same price if you look around and buy used. The frame is the most important part of the bike, it's what ties everything together. Would you marry an ugly girl with a terrible personality just because you can pretty her up with some fake boobs and a day at the salon? I think not...

    The FM066 is a proper frame (whatever that is). It does exactly the same thing as any other frame.
    And looks pretty good too. What's so terrible or bad about them ? is the price not expensive enough ? Whats wrong with putting nice parts on an open mould frame ?

    Do 'proper' frames have magical ride quality's or ingredients that independent frame makers cannot replicate the secret formula too ?

    Bike frames are really nothing special. Not even your Storck (which is dog ugly btw and looks very open mould'ish itself). Alot of them are sold for ridiculous amounts of money for what they actually are tubes stuck to other tubes. But marketing is quite a powerful thing. I would take an FM066 over your Storck anyday. The FM066 will give any so called 'high end' frame like a supersix evo hi mod, canyon slx or focus izalco a good run for their money. Why can't an open mould frame be as good or better than a 'proper' frame. What makes the FM066 inherently bad?
    The frame is the most important part of the bike

    What rule book is that written in then ? I was like you at one time. I'd look down at something that wasnt 'proper' or didnt have a logo on it. Until i took the plunge and bought one. I realised they are actually 95% as good as anything else. Let down only by their minor finishing details. All of which you will forget when you are flying down a hill at 40mph. I have owned 2 CAAD 10's and a Supersix before this frame,and it very much can hold its own against those. Any body whose thinking of buying one i say go for it. I know i won't be buying a 'proper' mainstream frame for a long time.
    My suggestion was to buy my Storck. Damn good suggestion too...

    More like an advert.
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    ''Minor finishing details' and dream bikes , this thread got weird.

    The readers wives section is here..
    viewforum.php?f=40044
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    I dunno trailflow, the CFRP Planet X frame I have is total garbage to ride compared to the Genesis steel I've been using since Feb. Allegedly it's a repainted open-mould frame. But it was a total disappointment.

    I love my Genesis though. Practically the same geometry. The wheels on the Genesis were inherited from the PX so they've definitely got nothing to do with it. Same tyres on both. Based on that I'd buy the idea that there can be a big difference between those frames.
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    Almost forgot the OP! Something light-touring-shaped and in stainless steel from Ricky Feather.
    - - - - - - - - - -
    On Strava.{/url}
  • Dodger747
    Dodger747 Posts: 305
    Got to be a Canyon with that budget [or with any budget come to think about it]...!
    VO2 Max - 79 ml/kg/min
    W/kg - 4.9
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    I dunno trailflow, the CFRP Planet X frame I have is total garbage to ride compared to the Genesis steel I've been using since Feb. Allegedly it's a repainted open-mould frame. But it was a total disappointment.

    I love my Genesis though. Practically the same geometry. The wheels on the Genesis were inherited from the PX so they've definitely got nothing to do with it. Same tyres on both. Based on that I'd buy the idea that there can be a big difference between those frames.

    Not sure which PX model you're talking about but not every open mould frame will be created equal obviously. Planet X are currently selling the FM066 rebadged called the RT80/90 + disc versions. The FM066SL model is closest to or direct copy of (some would say stolen :) ) a Cervelo R3/R5. Because of that I cant imagine the ride feel is too different from a real Cervelo. The FM066SL supposedly uses T1000 carbon vs T700/800 on cheaper open mould frames. Which supposedly is stiffer,stronger etc. I dont feel any noticeable flex on the frame. The fork is probably the stiffest i've ridden but that might be because it is straight rather than curved.

    Never ridden a Genesis so can't compare. But i am not saying all open mould frames are amazing. Some will be dog sh*t. Same can be said for steel frames.
  • term1te
    term1te Posts: 1,462
    You could get some very nice titanium with DA from Enigma for that sort of money.
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    No. You can't seriously reconcile recommending an open-mould frame as a good buy when you can get a proper frame for nearly the same price if you look around and buy used. The frame is the most important part of the bike, it's what ties everything together. Would you marry an ugly girl with a terrible personality just because you can pretty her up with some fake boobs and a day at the salon? I think not...

    The FM066 is a proper frame (whatever that is). It does exactly the same thing as any other frame.
    And looks pretty good too. What's so terrible or bad about them ? is the price not expensive enough ? Whats wrong with putting nice parts on an open mould frame ?

    Do 'proper' frames have magical ride quality's or ingredients that independent frame makers cannot replicate the secret formula too ?

    Bike frames are really nothing special. Not even your Storck (which is dog ugly btw and looks very open mould'ish itself). Alot of them are sold for ridiculous amounts of money for what they actually are tubes stuck to other tubes. But marketing is quite a powerful thing. I would take an FM066 over your Storck anyday. The FM066 will give any so called 'high end' frame like a supersix evo hi mod, canyon slx or focus izalco a good run for their money. Why can't an open mould frame be as good or better than a 'proper' frame. What makes the FM066 inherently bad?
    The frame is the most important part of the bike

    What rule book is that written in then ? I was like you at one time. I'd look down at something that wasnt 'proper' or didnt have a logo on it. Until i took the plunge and bought one. I realised they are actually 95% as good as anything else. Let down only by their minor finishing details. All of which you will forget when you are flying down a hill at 40mph. I have owned 2 CAAD 10's and a Supersix before this frame,and it very much can hold its own against those. Any body whose thinking of buying one i say go for it. I know i won't be buying a 'proper' mainstream frame for a long time.
    My suggestion was to buy my Storck. Damn good suggestion too...

    More like an advert.


    Seriously bro, you have no clue. When you buy an open-mould frame, all your getting is something that looks like a frame. You have absolutely no idea what grade of carbon they use (regardless of what they claim it to be), zero idea of the layup (even more important that the carbon itself), zero QA testing (regardless of assurances of such), zero accountability or protection if anything goes wrong, and you contribute to a culture of exploitation and downright thievery. And let's not even get into failure rates...

    The irony of your arguments being of course if open-mould carbon is so good, then why are you spending (a lot) money on branded components? Either A) you don't trust cheap Chinese carbon for you contact points or B) you wanted nicer/branded components. Both of those options render your entire argument for buying an open-mould frame paradoxical and invalid.

    You see, this is a thread about a 'dream bike'. No dream bike involves an open-mould frameset as being happy with 95% when you can have 100% constitutes a mediocre dream at best. This is not a thread about you justifying your own purchase with incongruous arguments.

    EDIT: Remember when you wrote this:
    I have heard amazing things about viner frames, it is cheaper and italian!! :D

    The Viner Mitus is a re-painted open mould chinese frame an FM066. Its about as italian as a pair of chopsticks. Not saying its a bad frame. I've got one (from China) they are decent. But the Cannondale Evo will be leagues better in term of construction,finish and ride quality. I know because i also own a supersix (non evo). So if the Evo is better than its older model. Which it certainly will be. The Evo will hands down be the better bike.

    Short term memory? :lol:
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • meesterbond
    meesterbond Posts: 1,240
    For £4k you can have my (real) R5, Record, Boras and all the trimmings...
  • alan_sherman
    alan_sherman Posts: 1,157
    I'd go for a titanium or steel gravel / adventure bike. With shimano hydraulic disc brakes. Probably stick to 105 or Ultegra level though. Probably on some handbuilt wheels with a dynohub front. I like Ritchey WCS bars so probably alloy WCS bars stem in black with a carbon seatpost. Add a garmin which can do sat nav, one of those narrow racks and mudguards, maybe a spare set of lighter / faster wheels.

    Not super lightweight, kind of a modern audax / club bike.

    Candidate frames are:
    Genesis Croix De fer stainless
    Kinesis tripster ATR
    Charge Plug Ti
  • Grill
    Grill Posts: 5,610
    You can get a Rourke 953 frameset for under £2k. Kit it up with DA9000, nice finishing kit and Pacenti's laced to DA9000 hubs and you'll have enough change for a few gels.
    English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg
  • cc.cycle
    cc.cycle Posts: 29
    I have an Fm066sl and a cervelo r3 2015 model at my house right now. Obviously the Fm066sl is based on a different model to the new r3, which has a slightly different seat tube and top tube shape. The new R3 have a BB shell twice the size of an Fm066sl. There is a lot less flex in the cervelo and the finishing of the frame is exceptional in comparison with the open mould. The Cervelo is also lighter even though the tubes don't physically feel as thin as the r3. That said. The open mould frame still feels really stiff and smooth on the road. even with not the lightest components it still built up to be 7.4kg and cost less than £1500 to get it there. So there are some pluses to owning one if you are on a serious budget, but I think in terms of this thread they aren't appropriate.


    As a hypothetical discussion this really has got totally out of control.

    I was really just interested to see what people could come up with around that prices as there are a lot of good deals on top spec 2015 models around this price currently. Or framesets at good prices that could be build up and easy com in less than the stated price.



    To get back to the discussion, what do we think of some of the bikes offered by Merida around this price point?
  • JesseD
    JesseD Posts: 1,961
    No. You can't seriously reconcile recommending an open-mould frame as a good buy when you can get a proper frame for nearly the same price if you look around and buy used. The frame is the most important part of the bike, it's what ties everything together. Would you marry an ugly girl with a terrible personality just because you can pretty her up with some fake boobs and a day at the salon? I think not...

    The FM066 is a proper frame (whatever that is). It does exactly the same thing as any other frame.
    And looks pretty good too. What's so terrible or bad about them ? is the price not expensive enough ? Whats wrong with putting nice parts on an open mould frame ?

    Do 'proper' frames have magical ride quality's or ingredients that independent frame makers cannot replicate the secret formula too ?

    Bike frames are really nothing special. Not even your Storck (which is dog ugly btw and looks very open mould'ish itself). Alot of them are sold for ridiculous amounts of money for what they actually are tubes stuck to other tubes. But marketing is quite a powerful thing. I would take an FM066 over your Storck anyday. The FM066 will give any so called 'high end' frame like a supersix evo hi mod, canyon slx or focus izalco a good run for their money. Why can't an open mould frame be as good or better than a 'proper' frame. What makes the FM066 inherently bad?
    The frame is the most important part of the bike

    What rule book is that written in then ? I was like you at one time. I'd look down at something that wasnt 'proper' or didnt have a logo on it. Until i took the plunge and bought one. I realised they are actually 95% as good as anything else. Let down only by their minor finishing details. All of which you will forget when you are flying down a hill at 40mph. I have owned 2 CAAD 10's and a Supersix before this frame,and it very much can hold its own against those. Any body whose thinking of buying one i say go for it. I know i won't be buying a 'proper' mainstream frame for a long time.
    My suggestion was to buy my Storck. Damn good suggestion too...

    More like an advert.


    Seriously bro, you have no clue. When you buy an open-mould frame, all your getting is something that looks like a frame. You have absolutely no idea what grade of carbon they use (regardless of what they claim it to be), zero idea of the layup (even more important that the carbon itself), zero QA testing (regardless of assurances of such), zero accountability or protection if anything goes wrong, and you contribute to a culture of exploitation and downright thievery. And let's not even get into failure rates...

    The irony of your arguments being of course if open-mould carbon is so good, then why are you spending (a lot) money on branded components? Either A) you don't trust cheap Chinese carbon for you contact points or B) you wanted nicer/branded components. Both of those options render your entire argument for buying an open-mould frame paradoxical and invalid.

    You see, this is a thread about a 'dream bike'. No dream bike involves an open-mould frameset as being happy with 95% when you can have 100% constitutes a mediocre dream at best. This is not a thread about you justifying your own purchase with incongruous arguments.

    EDIT: Remember when you wrote this:
    I have heard amazing things about viner frames, it is cheaper and italian!! :D

    The Viner Mitus is a re-painted open mould chinese frame an FM066. Its about as italian as a pair of chopsticks. Not saying its a bad frame. I've got one (from China) they are decent. But the Cannondale Evo will be leagues better in term of construction,finish and ride quality. I know because i also own a supersix (non evo). So if the Evo is better than its older model. Which it certainly will be. The Evo will hands down be the better bike.

    Short term memory? :lol:

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
    Obsessed is a word used by the lazy to describe the dedicated!
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    edited August 2015
    Seriously bro, you have no clue. When you buy an open-mould frame, all your getting is something that looks like a frame.

    With a very happy customer fanbase.

    Thats quite a blanket statement. If i am only getting something that looks like a frame. Why isn't it failing catastrophically when i ride it ? Why is it still in 1 piece after 4000 miles, is it just pot luck ? Why does it feel good to ride, why is it stiff and light, why is the FM066SL more lightweight and priced higher than the FM066, why not just sell the FM066SL at a lower price, wouldnt they make more sales ? they are probably all made from the same fake stuff that you wont find in a real frame afterall.

    It wouldnt really make good business sense to build faux frames and try to pass them off as real would it ? Any chinese frame company wouldn't last too long. But Hongfu and others have been around a fair number of years and seem to be flourishing. Maybe just maybe these companys know a thing or two about constructing carbon frames, or they are expert con artists, one or the 2.
    You have absolutely no idea what grade of carbon they use (regardless of what they claim it to be), zero idea of the layup (even more important that the carbon itself), zero QA testing (regardless of assurances of such)

    I can find more proof pointing towards they are tested for QA than not.

    Here is a video on this page on the left which gives an insight into their company.
    http://hongfu-bikes.en.alibaba.com/

    They seem to have alot of testing equipment, or is it all for show and deceit ? they are
    sure putting in alot of effort to build these frames or is this all staged and theatre? if this factory is fake which
    one are they coming out of ? Why rent somebody elses if you already own one ?
    zero accountability or protection if anything goes wrong

    i have read alot of reports of Hongfu (and similar companys like Dengfu, Yeoleo) honouring their warranty and re-sending stuff if anything goes wrong providing you cover the postage costs.

    on balance mainsteam companys have been known to f*ck a customer over every now and then too. and get away with it.

    a warranty on a 'proper' frame doesnt really give you accountability. I gives you reimbursement protection financially. But it doesnt really go much further than that.

    If you stacked it because your 'proper' frame failed and you ended up in hospital do think a mainsteam company and is going to send you a get well card with flowers to say ''were sorry our frame failed get well soon It is totally our fault'' no they will do nothing of the sort. Worst case scenerio for them is they choose to replace the frame. Not much of a blow to them as they will still be in profit. Worst case scenario for you they say its your fault and you get nothing. You'll be injured with no bike, DO THEY CARE ? nope. The chances of you taking them to court are slim to none. So much for accountabilty. They operate not much different from how a chinese company does. Their word that the frame will not fail is worth as much as anybody elses.
    and you contribute to a culture of exploitation and downright thievery

    Not really. but i do wish i had patented the triangle and matte lacquer paint i'd be rich.
    And let's not even get into failure rates...

    What failure rates ? Please post evidence that all these frames are failing left right and centre. For every 1 problem you find ,you will probably find 100+ happy customers.
    The irony of your arguments being of course if open-mould carbon is so good, then why are you spending (a lot) money on branded components? Either A) you don't trust cheap Chinese carbon for you contact points or B) you wanted nicer/branded components. Both of those options render your entire argument for buying an open-mould frame paradoxical and invalid.

    I already said for weight and aesthetics. I bought Zipp bars because of the bar shape. It wasn't available from Hongfu. i dont trust every chinese vender either your right. I considered chinese components at the time but non of them visually appealed to me. i have a chinese aero handlebar on order right now. My stem is taiwanese, does that make you happier ?

    Should my italian tyres be chinese because my frame is ? It doesn't really make any sense does it ? The bars and seatpost are not chinese. So freaking what ? Who says they need to be ? the components i bought are all cheaper than the frame.
    You see, this is a thread about a 'dream bike'. No dream bike involves an open-mould frameset as being happy with 95% when you can have 100% constitutes a mediocre dream at best.

    It could if you dont view a bike as just eye candy. The frame fitted my criteria. It may fit somebody elses who has a different idea to you of what a dream bike is. My frame was 100% fine for me. It is everything i imagined and thought it would be, and nothing like what you make out like bad quality or inferior . You think if you removed a paintjob from a mainsteam frame it would look much different ? No bike will be totally perfect.
    This is not a thread about you justifying your own purchase with incongruous arguments.

    it is now :)
    Short term memory? :lol:

    :D:D:D wow got me there. Good work detectve kojak! i retract everything ive said. Open mould frames are utter sh*t!! Do not buy!!!

    Sorry for derailling this thread.

    Just a buy a ROSE or Canyon. :) or blow the whole budget on a Storck or Colnago.

    Don't buy anything chinese whatever you do. The component police will come to get you. :shock:
  • robbo2011
    robbo2011 Posts: 1,017
    Oh well, that's this thread ruined.

    Mods, could you rename the thread to something like 'Self justification for buying Hongfu' ?

    TIA.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    I disagree. I think grill just got owned. I also am not a massive fan of his stork, aesthetically.

    That said, as trailflow said himself. It's fine. It's not perfect. It certainly isn't the bike that 4K dreams are made of
  • cc.cycle
    cc.cycle Posts: 29
    So anyway can we talk about bikes again?

    I am not getting another open mould.
  • matt_n-2
    matt_n-2 Posts: 581
    Personally, my dream bike would cost ~£8.5k.

    Pegoretti Responsorium with Falz fork and King h/set
    Bora 35 tubs with Open Corsa
    Super Record
    Fizik carbon finishing kit
    Busyman tape and saddle
    Colnago Master Olympic
    Colnago CLX 3.0
    Colnago Dream
    Giant Trinity Advanced
    Italian steel winter hack
  • cc.cycle
    cc.cycle Posts: 29
    Personally, my dream bike would cost ~£8.5k.

    Pegoretti Responsorium with Falz fork and King h/set
    Bora 35 tubs with Open Corsa
    Super Record
    Fizik carbon finishing kit
    Busyman tape and saddle


    Yeah thats nice one but certainly not within the budget.

    Maybe dream bike was a bit strong term for this thread, but what I meant is that most people ride a bike priced £500 - £2000 so £4000 is still a bit of a dream to spend.


    I'd like to rule canyon out of the thread too because their waiting times just seem insane.
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Are we soon to:
    a) be part of a 'what bike for 4k' blog
    b) be shortly helping you further narrow down your next bike further?
  • cc.cycle
    cc.cycle Posts: 29
    Are we soon to:
    a) be part of a 'what bike for 4k' blog
    b) be shortly helping you further narrow down your next bike further?


    To be honest I am thinking of either buying a Tarmac or Supersix hi-mod frame and using some parts I have to build up the bike.

    So far this thread has mostly been discussing the merits of buying open mould.