Saddle width and sores question.
fudgey
Posts: 854
Sorry its been asked a million times, i have had my road bike for 15 months now and i cant say that my rear end has ever been comfortable. Ie my arse hurts most of the time when riding.
I have done over 3000 miles on it, and persevered with the standard saddle for about 2000 miles until i couldnt take any more so splashed out on a selle italia slr flow saddle, and well, things are not a whole lot better.
I have a lump on the right side of my perineum right about where the 'R' of SLR is on this pic, the side on shot
I had been off the bike for 4 weeks due to a knee injury and since sunday over 4 rides taking it steady have covered about 50 miles and now i have a slight sore developing on the left side of my perineum but slightly higher up on the flatter part of the saddle.
When i bought it there were no width options and being new to road cycling i was unaware you could get different widths of saddle, so having just measured myself at approx 120mm for my sitbones and the widest part of the saddle being 130mm, is possibly too narrow for me?
All i,have changed recently is the nose angle as i felt like i was moving forwards a lot, so i kept pushing myself back so raised the nose to slightly off level which i think has helped a little with regards to me moving about.
Its getting quite annoying when your mates can just buy a bike, raise the saddle a bit and off they go. I spent a long time when i first got the bike setting it up using bike fit guides etc.
The bike is a Colnago ACR.
Thanks for any input.
I have done over 3000 miles on it, and persevered with the standard saddle for about 2000 miles until i couldnt take any more so splashed out on a selle italia slr flow saddle, and well, things are not a whole lot better.
I have a lump on the right side of my perineum right about where the 'R' of SLR is on this pic, the side on shot
I had been off the bike for 4 weeks due to a knee injury and since sunday over 4 rides taking it steady have covered about 50 miles and now i have a slight sore developing on the left side of my perineum but slightly higher up on the flatter part of the saddle.
When i bought it there were no width options and being new to road cycling i was unaware you could get different widths of saddle, so having just measured myself at approx 120mm for my sitbones and the widest part of the saddle being 130mm, is possibly too narrow for me?
All i,have changed recently is the nose angle as i felt like i was moving forwards a lot, so i kept pushing myself back so raised the nose to slightly off level which i think has helped a little with regards to me moving about.
Its getting quite annoying when your mates can just buy a bike, raise the saddle a bit and off they go. I spent a long time when i first got the bike setting it up using bike fit guides etc.
The bike is a Colnago ACR.
Thanks for any input.
My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...
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Comments
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If you are pushing your self back all the time ... it sounds like your stem might be long.
It could be something totally unrelated to your saddle.
Have a look at your stem length, to deal with the issue of you having to slide back all the time.
Dean0 -
If you are pushing your self back all the time ... it sounds like your stem might be long.
It could be something totally unrelated to your saddle.
Have a look at your stem length, to deal with the issue of you having to slide back all the time.
Dean
I did put a 15mm shortes stem with zero degree rise/fall on along with an inline seatpost a good few months back.
Although when i changed the stem i removed 10mm of spacers. I have put them back on tonight as it happenes.
Hoping to ride to work in the morning so will see how it goes. Will use the chamois cream tho!
CheersMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
op if your flexability allows you to ride with a pelvis rotated way forward then you may get away with a 130mm wide saddle, think of it like riding with quite a flattened back. for a lot of riders a 130mm saddle would play major havoc with @rse and soft tissues.0
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op if your flexability allows you to ride with a pelvis rotated way forward then you may get away with a 130mm wide saddle, think of it like riding with quite a flattened back. for a lot of riders a 130mm saddle would play major havoc with @rse and soft tissues.
I can touch my toes just about but cant get much lower, i have a tight hip joint on my left side, and currenty have left knee problems - waiting for an mri scan on the 2nd of august.. Abnormal knee joint apparently.
So i wouldnt say i am that flexible. I think i roll forwards with my pelvis instead of bending at the back like you say. I have a fair drop from seat to bars too.
Another thing i have read is about short fit. I use BBB bibs and bought size large, i have lost a stone this last year and currently 12st, i can probably get in a 32" waist now as all my 34" clothes i can take off without undoing the buttons etc.
so maybe i need to invest in some medium size shorts.
Not going to ride to work today as my knee is aching from tuesday but might try and get out on the bike tonight i i can.
Think i need to start stretching too...My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
My wife has had saddle issues for years but she persevered and we found one she was happy with. A leather type Brooks saddle that 'stretches' BUT she still had comfort issues so on a recent trip to London I decided that instead of a £100 on another saddle we'd try Pressure Mapping at Cyclefit. The results after 3 hours were interesting. She was riding too narrow a saddle and that was changed. Her insoles were changed as her feet had changed shape after pregnancy and there were some muscular-skeletal issues that were resolved by a visit to a Podiatrist. Will pressure mapping work for you - I can't tell you but guesswork becomes frustrating and the science used provided us with a good solution and highlighted other things that needed addressing. It wasn't just a saddle width, it was to do with muscle recruitment/gait and other stuff.M.Rushton0
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My wife has had saddle issues for years but she persevered and we found one she was happy with. A leather type Brooks saddle that 'stretches' BUT she still had comfort issues so on a recent trip to London I decided that instead of a £100 on another saddle we'd try Pressure Mapping at Cyclefit. The results after 3 hours were interesting. She was riding too narrow a saddle and that was changed. Her insoles were changed as her feet had changed shape after pregnancy and there were some muscular-skeletal issues that were resolved by a visit to a Podiatrist. Will pressure mapping work for you - I can't tell you but guesswork becomes frustrating and the science used provided us with a good solution and highlighted other things that needed addressing. It wasn't just a saddle width, it was to do with muscle recruitment/gait and other stuff.
Interesting - thanks, i will do a bit of research and have a look into it.
Never heard of pressure mapping so i doubt anywhere around here does it.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
It's on http://www.cyclefit.co.uk
I can't say if it will work for you but in our case the data showed us areas that needed addressing both on/off the bike. My wife changed the saddle and that made a difference to her riding. Her new insoles canted her right foot out and stopped the shoe rubbing on the crank. A visit to a podiatrist meant insoles for her running/normal issues and this has all been for the good. Nobody is symmetrical and science may work for you
http://gebiomized.de/?lang=en is the system used at Cyclefit.
http://cyclefit.co.uk/saddle-pressure-mappingM.Rushton0 -
As you joined this forum a few years ago, I imagine you are an experienced cyclist.
The basic geometry of saddles has changed relatively little in past decades; and insofar as it has, it has been to increase comfort.
I imagine the issue might lie elsewhere.
Is your saddle height correct? I put my machine on a turbo and do it by knee bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Simple but effective.
Is your fore-aft adjustment of the saddle OK? Plumbline from the kneecap with cranks horizontal is a good measure.
Then (maybe) think about bar height, bar angle and stem length.
Also.... (and this has happened to me) are the cranks the right length? This may sound silly, but I got very creaky knees once after inadvertently going up a size in the cranks. The same issue might also be felt as discomfort on the saddle.
If you're sure it's the saddle, just go back to the one you used before. I still use and ancient and (relatively) heavy Selle Italia that seems right for me.0 -
As you joined this forum a few years ago, I imagine you are an experienced cyclist.
I joined last year after the purchase of my first road bike, always rode mtb up until then
The basic geometry of saddles has changed relatively little in past decades; and insofar as it has, it has been to increase comfort.
I imagine the issue might lie elsewhere.
Is your saddle height correct? I put my machine on a turbo and do it by knee bend at the bottom of the pedal stroke. Simple but effective.
for saddle height, i dont the measuring of the inside leg plus what ever it was, have a slight bend at the knee on the down stoke, and last night when i used the heel of my foot on the pedal it was possible that my right foot drops my hip slightly so i lowered it 5mm. nowi know you are only supposed to change one thing at a time, but as said, i refitted the spacers under the stem too.
Is your fore-aft adjustment of the saddle OK? Plumbline from the kneecap with cranks horizontal is a good measure.
when i plum off my knee, i go from the inner 'dip', not the actual knee cap. its about right from there but if i were to do it from the actual cap then it would be too far forwards - i will check this later if i get chance. i do have a turbo still that i borrowed to set the bike up originally.
Then (maybe) think about bar height, bar angle and stem length.
as said, fitted a shorter stem with zero rise already, but again, will check all this
Also.... (and this has happened to me) are the cranks the right length? This may sound silly, but I got very creaky knees once after inadvertently going up a size in the cranks. The same issue might also be felt as discomfort on the saddle.
i cant remember off hand what size the cranks are, either 172.5 or 175mm. the frame is a 52s which in Colnago terms is equivalent to a 56cm i think. i am just about 180cm tall so fall into the large size frame.
If you're sure it's the saddle, just go back to the one you used before. I still use and ancient and (relatively) heavy Selle Italia that seems right for me.
the saddle that came with the bike was worse and the SLR is a little better, but after 20 miles or so it hurts.
thanks again for the tipsMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
op if your flexability allows you to ride with a pelvis rotated way forward then you may get away with a 130mm wide saddle, think of it like riding with quite a flattened back. for a lot of riders a 130mm saddle would play major havoc with @rse and soft tissues.
Thats exactly whay happened to me. Measured myself for a saddle and bought a wider one with a cutaway and no problems since0 -
Put your mtb saddle on there. If you can't find a comfortable position with that, you can rule out the saddle.0
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Put your mtb saddle on there. If you can't find a comfortable position with that, you can rule out the saddle.
Bought a new mtb in feb and done the hell of the north cotswolds on it in march. 65 miles total, i remember the last 30 being in pain so thats not 'comfy' either...
i will go to my LBS at the weekend hopefully and see what they sayMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
If you can solve it easily that's fine but I went with the pressure map as I didn't want to spend £100 on a saddle that may/may not be right. You also mentioned shorts - that has the potential to be another £100+ and no guarantee it's the answer. You also mentioned the hip joint and knee problems so these could be contributing to your issues. It may be that a fit is required. Cyclefit/Bespoke in London are good, others use the Retul system. But you do have to spend the money. More I read your posts, the more the physio side comes out. The hip joint and knee issues could be making you ride more on one side - an issue my wife has/had. You may be trying to fit you to the bike as opposed to the bike fitting youM.Rushton0
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The angle of the saddle counts for a lot - have you set it level with a spirit level?Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
XM-057 rigid 29er0 -
If you can solve it easily that's fine but I went with the pressure map as I didn't want to spend £100 on a saddle that may/may not be right. You also mentioned shorts - that has the potential to be another £100+ and no guarantee it's the answer. You also mentioned the hip joint and knee problems so these could be contributing to your issues. It may be that a fit is required. Cyclefit/Bespoke in London are good, others use the Retul system. But you do have to spend the money. More I read your posts, the more the physio side comes out. The hip joint and knee issues could be making you ride more on one side - an issue my wife has/had. You may be trying to fit you to the bike as opposed to the bike fitting you
When i get home tonight ill read up on the pressure map stuff, i am near swindon wilts so will see where i can have this done.
i did say to the specialist about my hip and he checked that and agreed its not right, but said they will sort my knee first then look at my hip.
when you say fit the bike to me, what could i do differently?
as usual i dont have an abundance of cash to spend, so getting the cause sorted is where to start.
thanksMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
The angle of the saddle counts for a lot - have you set it level with a spirit level?
yes, done that and kept moving forward over bumps etc, so raised the nose a tad and it seems a little betterMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
I'd say you are suffering from a condition known as "fudgeybum". Basically, you have a soft arse. Try a woman's saddle.Put your mtb saddle on there. If you can't find a comfortable position with that, you can rule out the saddle.
Bought a new mtb in feb and done the hell of the north cotswolds on it in march. 65 miles total, i remember the last 30 being in pain so thats not 'comfy' either...
i will go to my LBS at the weekend hopefully and see what they say0 -
If you can solve it easily that's fine but I went with the pressure map as I didn't want to spend £100 on a saddle that may/may not be right. You also mentioned shorts - that has the potential to be another £100+ and no guarantee it's the answer. You also mentioned the hip joint and knee problems so these could be contributing to your issues. It may be that a fit is required. Cyclefit/Bespoke in London are good, others use the Retul system. But you do have to spend the money. More I read your posts, the more the physio side comes out. The hip joint and knee issues could be making you ride more on one side - an issue my wife has/had. You may be trying to fit you to the bike as opposed to the bike fitting you
When i get home tonight ill read up on the pressure map stuff, i am near swindon wilts so will see where i can have this done.
i did say to the specialist about my hip and he checked that and agreed its not right, but said they will sort my knee first then look at my hip.
when you say fit the bike to me, what could i do differently?
as usual i dont have an abundance of cash to spend, so getting the cause sorted is where to start.
thanks
The bike shouldn't be causing issues. Saddle, pedalling, contact points - they should not be issues. Neck pain, knee pain they could come from the bike not being right for your issues and it's assessing those issues that is the hard bit. You may need to sit higher/lower, less/more reach, lay-back/no lay-back. Your knee(s) may move a lot and you can't see that. Some of the fitters use Dartfish which a motion analysing program. Unfortunately it's almost voodoo but when it's right as it was in my wifes case you can see what you have paid for and the data in the form of a pressure map is right there on screen. I think the physio side has to be assessed and not just spending money on a saddle. You need someone who can look at you and see what they can see. Some posters on BR (Napoleon D for one) swear by this guy
http://www.cadencesport.co.uk/
Similar to C-fit but may use less tech - still gets results tho'M.Rushton0 -
I'd say you are suffering from a condition known as "fudgeybum". Basically, you have a soft ars*. Try a woman's saddle.Put your mtb saddle on there. If you can't find a comfortable position with that, you can rule out the saddle.
Bought a new mtb in feb and done the hell of the north cotswolds on it in march. 65 miles total, i remember the last 30 being in pain so thats not 'comfy' either...
i will go to my LBS at the weekend hopefully and see what they say
Quite possibly!My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
The bike shouldn't be causing issues. Saddle, pedalling, contact points - they should not be issues. Neck pain, knee pain they could come from the bike not being right for your issues and it's assessing those issues that is the hard bit. You may need to sit higher/lower, less/more reach, lay-back/no lay-back. Your knee(s) may move a lot and you can't see that. Some of the fitters use Dartfish which a motion analysing program. Unfortunately it's almost voodoo but when it's right as it was in my wifes case you can see what you have paid for and the data in the form of a pressure map is right there on screen. I think the physio side has to be assessed and not just spending money on a saddle. You need someone who can look at you and see what they can see. Some posters on BR (Napoleon D for one) swear by this guy
http://www.cadencesport.co.uk/
Similar to C-fit but may use less tech - still gets results tho'[/quote]
My knees dont generally hurt on a ride, my current knee issue is not from riding, nor my hip as they have been bad for years.
I only seem to suffer an uncomfortable neck/lower back on longer rides over 40 miles. Last year i managed 85 twice, but so far this year the biggest has been 65, was hoping to crack the ton this year.
On those rides my arse was quite uncomfortable from again around 40 miles from what i remember.
My pedal stroke sees my knees move a little in an elliptical way, with my right moving a little more than my left.
I think when i get time over the next week ill,get the turbo out and maybe have another go at setting it up.
With regard to KOPs should it be plumbed from the knee cap, or just to the inside like i have set mine? Different people have different ways i guess and i am sure i read to do it from the inside.
As for height, heel on pedal without the hips rocking and stem length for elbow on nose of saddle to midway of the stem/bars blocking view of the front hub when on the hoods.
I might nick the saddle off the wife's mtb if its wider and have a go with that. Ha
Oh and start stretching...
Cheers for the input guys, i think ill have one more go at fettling the setup before i take the plunge of a fit. Didnt get chance to do much research yet on pressure mapping so hopefully over the weekend i will.
My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Sounds like a combo of trying to adopt too extreme a position and lack of flexibility forcing the rider to 'pull' themselves onto the nose of the saddle, hence the 'lump'. Trying to look good on a bike isn't the same as it being an effective, comfortable position. Try raising the bars / shortening reach to get the weight back over the saddle.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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Sounds like a combo of trying to adopt too extreme a position and lack of flexibility forcing the rider to 'pull' themselves onto the nose of the saddle, hence the 'lump'. Trying to look good on a bike isn't the same as it being an effective, comfortable position. Try raising the bars / shortening reach to get the weight back over the saddle.
actually i wasnt trying to look anything when i set the bike up.
i simply followed one of the many 'how-to' fit guides on the web for setting up my first road bike.
still yet to ride the thing since replacing the spacers under the stem to see if that helped or not.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
A quick change to see if the position is too extreme is to flip the stem into the upright position. This reduces drop and reach, have a look on line for stem calculator websites which give you an idea of the change.
My bike has the stem flipped upright as i was between two frame sizes and prefered the smaller frame. Also i wanted a more upright riding position. Most web bike setup guides are for lower riding positions which most people don't want.
When positioning the saddle make sure you are on level ground. I adjusted the tilt of mine once with a spirit level when the bike was on a slope. Once on level ground again it was quite a bit off and uncomfortable. Also even slightly too high a saddle can cause knee pain by over reaching and the rocking of hips this generates can cause all kinds if issues.0 -
Cheers, i have already changed the stem for a 15mm shorter one with zero degree rise, i also slightly rotated the hoods back too at the same time.
i will give my bike the once over with regards to fit at the weekend hopefully and go from there.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
I suffered badly from saddle sores for a long time resulting in infections etc.
After spending lots trying out various saddles I finally found a solution to my problems.I went to my local Specialized shop after reading about the Romin saddles in Bike Radars reviews.What a revelation!
I sat on the assometer to get my sit bones measured.I bought the 43mm saddle on a try before you buy and stupidly went out and rode 80 miles.No problems,no sores so I went back the next day and purchased it plus two more for my other bikes.Brilliant saddles that I recommended to three other pals and they all love them.0 -
Well i have just finished tinkering, the went out, the kids were in bed so i set up the turbo, in the house of course...
With the slr still on the bike i dropped the seat height until my heels felt comfortable on the pedals, then plumbed for kops just below my knee cap on the front of my knees.
It was a good inch in front of the pedal spindle so reverted to the original setback seat post that came with the bike, still using the slr and set level.
This still felt a little uncomfortable so i swapped the seat for the original selle italia x1 that came on the bike. The overall width was only slighty wider than the slr but it had a slightly flatter profile side to side whereas the slr drops off on the edges. With the x1 on i could feel my sit bones were 'on' the saddle as opposed to more on the sides like the slr.
So i then commandeered tje saddle off the wifes cube, that was also the same width as the x1 but had a flatter still profile across the side to side plane. It is also flat front to back unlike the x1 that sort of dips in the middle.
It felt reasonably comfortable, so i swapped it out for the other two to test again and ended up with the wifes saddle on the bike.
Hoping to get out for a ride tomorrow so will see how it goes.
I measured the drop from seat to bars before i changed anything at 80mm, it is now 65mm if that means much.
So conclusion is a wider saddle is at the moment i think what is required.
I cannot find anywhere localish tjat does pressure mapping, and i currently have no plans to visit london to go to the shop mentioned earlier but if i cant find a solution then a visit may be on the cards!
Ill report back once i have been for a ride.
Thanks everyone for the suggestionsMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Been out and done 26odd miles tonight, longest ride for a while due to my buggered knee and i can say that up to 20 miles was comfortable, and by the time i got home i think i was noticing a little pressure on the perineum, the wife's mtb saddle is just flat but i think the extra width helped no end.
The slight discomfort may be just due to riding a different saddle, but overall i was pretty happy on the bike.
So i think a wider saddle with a cutout is on the cards.
Fingers crossed for a bit of a breakthrough!My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
I suffered badly from saddle sores for a long time resulting in infections etc.
After spending lots trying out various saddles I finally found a solution to my problems.I went to my local Specialized shop after reading about the Romin saddles in Bike Radars reviews.What a revelation!
I sat on the assometer to get my sit bones measured.I bought the 43mm saddle on a try before you buy and stupidly went out and rode 80 miles.No problems,no sores so I went back the next day and purchased it plus two more for my other bikes.Brilliant saddles that I recommended to three other pals and they all love them.
Which version did you buy bud, been looking at the romin and there 3 or 4 different versions.
ThanksMy winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0 -
Sorry its been asked a million times, i have had my road bike for 15 months now and i cant say that my rear end has ever been comfortable. Ie my ars* hurts most of the time when riding.
I have done over 3000 miles on it, and persevered with the standard saddle for about 2000 miles until i couldnt take any more so splashed out on a selle italia slr flow saddle, and well, things are not a whole lot better.
I have a lump on the right side of my perineum right about where the 'R' of SLR is on this pic, the side on shot
I had been off the bike for 4 weeks due to a knee injury and since sunday over 4 rides taking it steady have covered about 50 miles and now i have a slight sore developing on the left side of my perineum but slightly higher up on the flatter part of the saddle.
When i bought it there were no width options and being new to road cycling i was unaware you could get different widths of saddle, so having just measured myself at approx 120mm for my sitbones and the widest part of the saddle being 130mm, is possibly too narrow for me?
All i,have changed recently is the nose angle as i felt like i was moving forwards a lot, so i kept pushing myself back so raised the nose to slightly off level which i think has helped a little with regards to me moving about.
Its getting quite annoying when your mates can just buy a bike, raise the saddle a bit and off they go. I spent a long time when i first got the bike setting it up using bike fit guides etc.
The bike is a Colnago ACR.
Thanks for any input.
This article is worth a read.
http://parentinitestteam.com/2015/07/08/how-to-avoid-saddle-sores/0 -
Thanks, i read that the other day and thats what led to me dropping my seat height about 15mm
Just back from my lbs that are a specialized dealer but dont have any loan specialized saddles
They did however have a couple if fizik ones and because i can touch my toes recommended the arione. Unsure of its width and its an odd shape but i paid a depost (fully refundable) and now have a purple and yellow saddle to try for a week.My winter bike is exactly the same as my summer bike,,, but dirty...0
