Calling helmet deniers: Geraint alive and well
Comments
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It took you a week to work that out?BTW I never said you were more likely to die in a bike accident than die from cancer, I just said you can't apply statistics to individual cases without further information.
I am talking personal facts. You are talking statistics.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Have you not watched the video? It is a clear impact to the left parietal with no visible shoulder impact at all.
Not wanting to be pedantic but he didn't head butt the pole, he met it backwards and appears to spread the load across his shoulders & back. A head butt is widely accepted as using the forehead to create an impact. There wasn't much in the way of damage to the helmet either, when it was waved around on tv. But yeah next time I plan to race a load of pro cyclists down a mountain at 40-50 mph, I"ll be sure to wear a helmet. For beetling around on weekend rides and my 20 mile dash to work on fairly empty country roads, no thanks.I just don't have any confidence in cycling helmets, far too flimsy and no decent evidence that they work.
No, I'm sure Geraint Thomas would agree with you, no evidence whatsoever.
Except that small matter of the fact that he head butted a telegraph pole with the side of his head and was completely uninjured.
As usual the Bikeradar helmet debate diverts straight to the bun-fight of whether or not one should wear one, not the subject of "Do they protect you from injury or death?", which was the subject of this thread and the answer to which (a resounding "YES") even the majority of the trolls on this thread probably agree with.
Have you not watched the video and looked up the definition of head butt before calling someone out on not having watched the video?My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
By the way......Regarding the wearing of helmets in cars your rights have been skilfully side stepped by making air-bags compulsory so a helmet is now redundant.
People are still dying from head injuries whilst in vehicles, so it really isn't redundant.
This thread however, may be.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Watched the video? Oh yeah, I never thought of doing that. :roll:Have you not watched the video? It is a clear impact to the left parietal with no visible shoulder impact at all.
I watched it numerous times on the newspaper web site but it was poor quality so reserved judgement, then watched it back a few times from the HD coverage on a decent screen. It's not a full head-on impact either forward or backwards, and the damage to the helmet is on its side not the rear edge so judging it on what I saw and G's reaction to it, I don't believe that he'd be a sad memory now if he hadn't had a helmet on in this particular incident.
Regardless, if you desperately need to be right chalk yourself up a point that says 'YES HELMETS CAN SAVE LIVES*'. Like I said though, if it's a racing situation or the type of riding that is more likely to involve coming a cropper (d/hill mtb in the woods etc) sure I'll wear one. but for the riding I do out in the countryside on roads that I can describe to the inch for the whole 20 mile commute and most of my w/e rides, I'll give it a miss thanks. Maybe it's time to move if I know every bump in every direction, and I don't imagine that if a car hits me from behind at 40+mph a helmet will make much difference. You carry on with the hysterical helmet-wearing evangelism, and I'll carry on doing what's worked fine for me for the last 47 years ta.
Ok?0 -
Please could you provide us with some reasonable evidence that cycling helmets prevent deaths from head injury. There is evidence out there both for and against. Do your homework and understand that seeing a cyclist walk away from a bash on the head doesn't pass muster as evidence. Neither does a broken helmet.
As I said in a previous post, I wear a helmet solely to keep everyone happy. I would be very pleased to see something that showed me it might actually be protecting me, the video proves nothing.0 -
After reading (some of ) this thread, the phenomenon of Youtube being awash with exasperated drivers slapping around mouthy, OCD suffering stick limbed dweebs in baggy Lycra is no longer mystifying to me. :roll:0
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The lovely thing about this topic is that the shouty believers are as sure of their own facts as the shouty unbelievers are sure of theirs.
Has anybody in one of these threads ever postsd: "Oh, fair point. I can see your side of it now and am converted".
Most people are on the fence in this matter and cannot get too heated about it.
Nonetheless, the entertainment offered by the mouth-foaming zealot (it's the other guy, not you - in case you were worried) is almost priceless.
These threads offer endless opportunity to laugh at the silent screamings of those Internet warriors who believe themselves to be Cristopher Hitchens but are often closer to a slightly cross Cristopher Robin.
Please do not stop.... You are all absolutely right and have nearly persuaded the entire internet with your clever rhetoric.0 -
Don't be bringing common sense into the equation.Most people are on the fence in this matter and cannot get too heated about it.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Don't be bringing common sense into the equation.Most people are on the fence in this matter and cannot get too heated about it.
WTF!!!!!!
My uncle works in an A&E Department near a major road junction and he tells me regularly of people who used too much or too little common sense in an otherwise perfectly safe discussion and ended up with life-threatening inexactitudes of opinion in more than one dimension.
I do not mean to be personal here, but your anti-common-sense attitude is just typical of the sort of thing we're up against here.
Next time a cat falls under a microwave or a budgie slips on the keys of a piano, just bear in mind that it might be your child watching it on Youtube. I find your approach to this whole issue both naive and shallow.
I just looked up your opinion on my wrong-o-meter and it was off the end of the scale. And I am not talking about a pocket wrong-o-meter... It is a professional, full-sized one.0 -
That's better.
Don't be bringing common sense into the equation.Most people are on the fence in this matter and cannot get too heated about it.
WTF!!!!!!
My uncle works in an A&E Department near a major road junction and he tells me regularly of people who used too much or too little common sense in an otherwise perfectly safe discussion and ended up with life-threatening inexactitudes of opinion in more than one dimension.
I do not mean to be personal here, but your anti-common-sense attitude is just typical of the sort of thing we're up against here.
Next time a cat falls under a microwave or a budgie slips on the keys of a piano, just bear in mind that it might be your child watching it on Youtube. I find your approach to this whole issue both naive and shallow.
I just looked up your opinion on my wrong-o-meter and it was off the end of the scale. And I am not talking about a pocket wrong-o-meter... It is a professional, full-sized one.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Aren't forums pathetic, I said years ago there should be a licence to use a computer, test people, on simple subjects, and if they cannot come up with simple answers they are de-moused forever!!!
Would save forums a fortune in bandwidth.
Anyway I'd be dead (no really) if it weren't for my Lid, or worse still Stephen Hawking without the talky computer shit and the book deals!!0 -
That was head down XC through the woods, I didn't even have a headache. I did snap off my spinus process, crush a vert and burst 4 disks but I went to the pub after for a pint and the hospital 3 weeks later! Tell me it would have been better without a lid, go on, tell me how.......
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What I take from this thread, similar threads, and discussions on the road with people suggesting that I should always wear a helmet is this......
Wearing helmets makes you more accident prone.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I never used the term headbutt, I was just pointing out that your description if the incident isn't very accurate regarding the location of impact.
Have you not watched the video? It is a clear impact to the left parietal with no visible shoulder impact at all.
Not wanting to be pedantic but he didn't head butt the pole, he met it backwards and appears to spread the load across his shoulders & back. A head butt is widely accepted as using the forehead to create an impact. There wasn't much in the way of damage to the helmet either, when it was waved around on tv. But yeah next time I plan to race a load of pro cyclists down a mountain at 40-50 mph, I"ll be sure to wear a helmet. For beetling around on weekend rides and my 20 mile dash to work on fairly empty country roads, no thanks.I just don't have any confidence in cycling helmets, far too flimsy and no decent evidence that they work.
No, I'm sure Geraint Thomas would agree with you, no evidence whatsoever.
Except that small matter of the fact that he head butted a telegraph pole with the side of his head and was completely uninjured.
As usual the Bikeradar helmet debate diverts straight to the bun-fight of whether or not one should wear one, not the subject of "Do they protect you from injury or death?", which was the subject of this thread and the answer to which (a resounding "YES") even the majority of the trolls on this thread probably agree with.
Have you not watched the video and looked up the definition of head butt before calling someone out on not having watched the video?
I appreciate the quote function can be confusing, but, which description?My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
https://twitter.com/roubaixcc
Facebook? No. Just say no.0 -
That was head down XC through the woods, I didn't even have a headache. I did snap off my spinus process, crush a vert and burst 4 disks but I went to the pub after for a pint and the hospital 3 weeks later! Tell me it would have been better without a lid, go on, tell me how.......
Having seen similar mountain biking and once even worse on the road you don't need to convince me. It only has to happen once to have serious life implications.0 -
You'll never convince the No Helmet Brigade to change their views and nothing, whether evidence based or anecdotal will convince them otherwise and despite being a helmet wearer myself, fair play to them - thankfully we all have the opportunity to make an informed choice. It's just one I personally don't agree with.
Whats of greater concern is the disparity of style over substance in helmet design, I can't recall seeing any great leaps forward in terms of safety in recent years but they do look more stylish and with that more expensive.
I've been sucked into buying a £100 helmet but honestly don't know it I'm better protected than with a £15 one - I suspect not0 -
I'm going to raise Bordersroadies troll score to 8.5/10 for his continued efforts to pop back in and for the all the people who must be providing him with much entertainment!
Whats of greater concern is the disparity of style over substance in helmet design, I can't recall seeing any great leaps forward in terms of safety in recent years but they do look more stylish and with that more expensive.
Eye watering prices but POC offer helmets with MIPS and if you want cutting edge you can always give the Hövding airbag a try.0 -
These interminable helmet debates are fascinating from a social/psychological point of view. It's quite understandable that strong disagreement exists, because although the stakes are at least /potentially/ very high (life or death), there isn't really a black & white answer to the question of whether or not a reasonable person should wear a helmet in general when riding a bicycle. It depends on several interacting factors such as type of riding and the level of risk an individual considers acceptable.
The facts are pretty simple:
- Will wearing a helmet reduce the chances of, or severity of, at least some types of head injury that you might sustain when riding a bike? Yes, almost certainly.
- Is riding a bike without wearing a helmet inherently a very risky activity? No it isn't. For a century millions of people rode bikes without helmets, and millions still do, without this resulting in a death toll on par with that caused by many other activities many or most of us would consider acceptable.
Can we please all accept these pretty much undeniable facts and move on from the extremist generalisations that come from both "sides" of the debate?
There ARE more specific questions that could be sensibly debated, such as how the risks of serious head injury might be reduced for specific types of riding by wearing a helmet. E.g. my own opinion is that the advantages are substantial in cycle sport, especially racing, where people are covering thousands of miles a year, intentionally riding fast and taking some risks, and where crashes at around 20mph without motor vehicles being involved are fairly common.0 -
Strikes me that these debates mostly attract , high-post-count, master-debaters..
You know the type, imagine Popeye with only one heavily muscled forearm. 
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And here you are!Strikes me that these debates mostly attract , high-post-count, master-debaters.. You know the type, imagine Popeye with only one heavily muscled forearm. The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Strikes me that these debates mostly attract , high-post-count, master-debaters.. You know the type, imagine Popeye with only one heavily muscled forearm. 0
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And here you are!Strikes me that these debates mostly attract , high-post-count, master-debaters.. You know the type, imagine Popeye with only one heavily muscled forearm.
Yikes, the fearsome "No, you are!" riposte. :? I am no match for such rapier wit, I'd best skulk away now before "my dad's bigger than your dad" is brought into play........
Can't for the life of me think why he took that one so personally. Though, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....etc etc :shock:0 -
Had a crash in a race yesterday and someone rode over my head...glad I had my helmet on.0
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I see that you have still added nothing to the debate.
And here you are!Strikes me that these debates mostly attract , high-post-count, master-debaters.. You know the type, imagine Popeye with only one heavily muscled forearm.
Yikes, the fearsome "No, you are!" riposte. :? I am no match for such rapier wit, I'd best skulk away now before "my dad's bigger than your dad" is brought into play........
Can't for the life of me think why he took that one so personally. Though, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....etc etc :shock:
Give yourself a gold star for topping up your post rate.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
How is this still going?
It is quite simple, if you think the chances of you falling off or being knocked off your bike and hitting your head are sufficiently high enough to warrant wearing a helmet then wear one.
If not then dont.
What anyone else does has no bearing on how likely you are to suffer a head injury so why do you care?www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0 -
My coupon was burst when it went past 6 pages. At this rate no one will win.How is this still going?
It is quite simple, if you think the chances of you falling off or being knocked off your bike and hitting your head are sufficiently high enough to warrant wearing a helmet then wear one.
If not then dont.
What anyone else does has no bearing on how likely you are to suffer a head injury so why do you care?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
You'll never convince the No Helmet Brigade to change their views and nothing, whether evidence based or anecdotal will convince them otherwise and despite being a helmet wearer myself, fair play to them - thankfully we all have the opportunity to make an informed choice. It's just one I personally don't agree with.
Every time I go out on a ride I wear a helmet, as I've already said, to keep people happy. I don't believe it offers me any significant protection. That belief isn't a dogmatic faith thing, it's based on my best interpretation of the evidence available which actually doesn't include anecdote or photos of bashed helmets. If evidence stacks up in favour of helmets in some ways I'll be happy because at least I will feel there is more justification for having a polystyrene basket on my head.
I think the debate is quite important, although why it has to be so emotive I don't know. At the moment, many non cyclists see cycling, especially on the road, as being a very dangerous activity. How many times are road cyclists asked, "aren't you worried about riding your bike on the road". It's pretty clear that the benefit vs harm is very much in cyclings favour but I wonder if helmet wearing compounds the sense of risk and puts people off. Certainly, within the BMA, there is active debate concerning the call for compulsory helmet wearing vs the overall negative public health impact of such a ban.0 -
I'm still n with a prize with a predicted 12 pages... if you didnt see it you be a deniar...
who are these helmet debaters anyways?
weird fux
My pen won't write on the screen0 -
I see that you have still added nothing to the debate.
And here you are!Strikes me that these debates mostly attract , high-post-count, master-debaters.. You know the type, imagine Popeye with only one heavily muscled forearm.
Yikes, the fearsome "No, you are!" riposte. :? I am no match for such rapier wit, I'd best skulk away now before "my dad's bigger than your dad" is brought into play........
Can't for the life of me think why he took that one so personally. Though, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....etc etc :shock:
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Give yourself a gold star for topping up your post rate.
He actually thinks that he's added something worthwhile here, bless his little cotton socks. Such sweet delusion.0 -
You'll never convince the No Helmet Brigade to change their views
why do you want or need to?
do you tell fat people their diet might kill them?
do you tell smokers they might get cancer?
do you tell binge drinkers it might be bad for their health?
do you etc etc etc
let people make their own minds up on the risks involved in cycling.www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes0
This discussion has been closed.
