My First New Tyres - What to Get?

Biomech
Biomech Posts: 158
edited July 2015 in Road buying advice
Hello!

I have a Giant Defy 4 on 700x25 treadless Giant SR4 tyres. My front has taken a piece of glass that has left a bit of a hole so I'm about to buy some new tyres ready.

But there seem's to be A LOT of choice. I know I need 700's and I'm happy with 25's so size is ok. But there's a lot of other terms cropping up - "folding tyre", "tubular" etc. I don't suppose anyone know's what would be close to the SR4 as a replacement?

I cycle low mileage, 10-25 rides for fitness/physio and I bike to town/gym and back a couple times a week.

The roads are awful, rough, potholed and glass. So I guess I'm after something with good puncture protection, but nothing that will give me too much resistance when cycling for fitness. I like to go fast when I can and I struggle with hills/inclines.

Any ideas? I'm reading the forums/websites etc but price is from £15 to £50 and I'm not sure where the SR4's come as a comparison.

TIA
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Comments

  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    edited July 2015
    Ok, so after some more videos, articles, forums and some science, I've worked out what I'm looking at.
    I can't find what weight the Giant SR4's are as a comparison, but if anyone has any thoughts on the choice between these I'd be very appreciative.


    GatorHardShell Folding: £30 250g Hardshell Puncture Resistence
    Cont GP4000S II Folding: £32 225g Vectran Puncture Resistence


    Assuming a heavier tyre would cause more resistence overall. I think I'm looking at the £32 GP4000's Folding. The GatorSkins seems to just be the old/not as good model.

    Does anyone know of any significant reason to chose between the GatorHardShell Folding at 250g and the Cont GP4000S II's at 225g. There's only £2 in it but they use different types of puncture protection system
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    The Conti GrandPrix 4000S II folding tyre is recommended more than the Gator Hardshell because they give a nicer ride, have a high TPI count and lower rolling resistance, they are a race tyre, though generally considered a summer tyre. If you want a year round tyre, the GrandPrix 4 Season is usually recommended.
    http://www.conti-tyres.co.uk/conticycle/road.shtml
  • Giraffoto
    Giraffoto Posts: 2,078
    Get the 4 Seasons version - terrific tyres.
    Specialized Roubaix Elite 2015
    XM-057 rigid 29er
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Pro 4 SC
    @ £38 for a pair delivered they are currently a bargain too.

    https://www.decathlon.co.uk/pro-4-service-course-road-bike-tyre-set-700x25-id_8328783.html
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    edited July 2015
    Thanks for the info.

    I did see the 4 Season's and was planning to go for the 4000's now and then the 4 Season's closer to the winter as I'm happy to switch over.

    Would the tread not increase the resistance and make it harder to ride than the 4000's?

    The trouble being I can't find a spec for the SR4's I have now to use as a comparrison - which are generic stock tyres so I understand not amazing.
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    Also, could I ask, what level of abuse should I be looking at? I've had 3 punctures, all from glass, most are tiny tiny ones that cause a pin head sized hole in the tube and a prink in the tyre small enough that it "selfseals" so to speak. This latest one was bigger and produced a big hole in the tube and has left a cut out of the tyre

    https://dumpyourphoto.com/photo/Bkz7FOQzMs

    It goes right through at about 60% of that size on the inside of the tyre. Is this considered just a general mark or something that should be replaced?
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    If the SR4's are the O.E. factory fit that came with the bike, then depending on what milage you have done they may be getting thin so are more prone to puncturing, or you could just have been unlucky. The SR4's will be made to a price (£15 - £20) range, and will be wire bead /low TPI, adequate though nothing special. You will notice the difference if you switch to the Conti's or Michelin Pro4's.
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    Yeah I thought that might be the case.
    I think I've been "unlucky" at least as unlucky as one can be with a council that leaves broken glass all over the road and never fixes potholes.

    You might be able to see in the picture, above the cut there's a dimple, these go all around the tyre and I believe are the wear marks. I've had the bike about 10 months now, we're not really looking at more than 500 miles I'd say
  • lostboysaint
    lostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    Michelin Pro4 Endurance - and then you'll understand why so many Conti GP4S riders (myself included) won't go back!
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
    Allround - Cotic Solaris
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    Vittoria Rubino Pro / Slicks are also worth a look and cheap (ish).
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    Yeah I thought that might be the case.
    I think I've been "unlucky" at least as unlucky as one can be with a council that leaves broken glass all over the road and never fixes potholes.

    You might be able to see in the picture, above the cut there's a dimple, these go all around the tyre and I believe are the wear marks. I've had the bike about 10 months now, we're not really looking at more than 500 miles I'd say

    Yes I can see the wear indicators and if you have only done 500 miles the tread will not be worn thin, so I'd say you have been unlucky. As mentioned by others maybe consider a 4 season tyre, Conti 4S, Michelin Pro4 Endurance or similar.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Yep the 4 tyres mentioned most above would be my choice too.
    If you want to prioritise speed with a little puncture protection go with Conti GP4000S or Michelin Pro4 Service Course.
    If you want a little more puncture protection while sacrificing a smidge on rolling resistance go with Conti GP 4 Seasons or Michelin Pro4 Endurance.

    I currently use 4 Seasons on one bike and Pro4 SC on the other, both in 25mm, and I have no complaints about either.

    The "25mm" Michelin Pro4 tyres as mentioned above, are a bit oversized. My Pro4 SCs measure around 27.5mm on standard rims. As long as you have sufficient clearance, this just means more comfort. They roll well, I've had no punctures, no cutting and pretty moderate wear. I'll may well replace them with another pair of the same when they eventually wear out.

    My Conti 4 Seasons come up about correct on size or perhaps a tiny bit narrow. From what I've heard the GP4000s are about 25mm too or just a little over.

    Generally the Michelins can be bought cheaper. The 4 Seasons in particular are very expensive and difficult to find discounted. Though I've been very happy with 4 Seasons I think I'd probably give Pro4 Endurance a try next time.

    There are other good tyres I'm sure. i'd recommend these 4 because I've tried two of them but more imoprtantly, there's a pretty good consensus that they work well with no significant weaknesses. It'll also give you a good benchmark for any future tyres since these are so well known and popular.
  • Just take care to not get confused between the Pro 4 SC’s and the Pro 4 ENDURANCE version.

    The Endurance are the best all season tyre I’ve ever ridden (ridden a lot). Use them throughout Winter, and train on them in Summer. I’ve raced on them too when my race wheels (with Conti’ Comp tubs), were being repaired.

    They just don’t seem to cut-up…..at all! I’ve had two punctures on P4 Endurance tyres in the last three years and one of those was a pinch flat when I hit a pothole. I firmly believe punctures are more down to bad luck, but that said, if these tyres didn’t hold-up to cuts as well as they do, id have had significantly more punctures.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Just take care to not get confused between the Pro 4 SC’s and the Pro 4 ENDURANCE version...
    Although both should do the job!
    But yes, as per my last post the Endurance is more durable, the Service Course (SC) is a bit faster.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,888
    I wouldn't discount gatorskins - they aren't a race tyre but for a general do anything tyre with good puncture protection they do the job and they do last - I happily use them as a winter training tyre. Otherwise Pro4Endurance will offer a bit of a faster/nicer ride without quite being as tough
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    I did look at the GatorSkins, but they are a lot heavier and seem to be a bit more basic in terms of puncture resistance.
    The "25mm" Michelin Pro4 tyres as mentioned above, are a bit oversized

    That could be an issue, on my current 25's if it's wet the water/dirt rubs on the mudguards, there's not a lot of room in there :P
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Get the 4 Seasons version - terrific tyres.

    Thats what i use, they roll fine and were only punctured by a bent nail going through the sidewall.
  • dj58
    dj58 Posts: 2,221
    I did look at the GatorSkins, but they are a lot heavier and seem to be a bit more basic in terms of puncture resistance.
    The "25mm" Michelin Pro4 tyres as mentioned above, are a bit oversized

    That could be an issue, on my current 25's if it's wet the water/dirt rubs on the mudguards, there's not a lot of room in there :P


    Buy them from somewhere that does free returns, then you can trial fit them, make sure your bike, rims and mudguards are clean beforehand.
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    Good idea.

    I was about to buy the 4000S II's and then the 4 Seasons in the autumn/winter.
    But I'm thinking the value for money on those Michelin's looks good and as it's dry I can always loose the mudguards as well
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    So I bought the Michelin Pro4 Endurance 700x25c's and they arrived this morning,
    I used the link from the thread, the 2 for £50 offer with the 2 free innertubes - and got a box of tea in the packaging :P

    Am I being stupid, the tyres at 700x25c's, the inner tubes in box are 700x18/23c - surely they should be 700x25's as well?

    In the past I've bought 700x18-25c's on wiggle. Will the size difference cause a problem with space or greater surface resistence etc or....?
  • earth
    earth Posts: 934
    Also, could I ask, what level of abuse should I be looking at? I've had 3 punctures, all from glass, most are tiny tiny ones that cause a pin head sized hole in the tube and a prink in the tyre small enough that it "selfseals" so to speak. This latest one was bigger and produced a big hole in the tube and has left a cut out of the tyre

    https://dumpyourphoto.com/photo/Bkz7FOQzMs

    It goes right through at about 60% of that size on the inside of the tyre. Is this considered just a general mark or something that should be replaced?

    Good choice.

    If you have had 3 punctures from small pieces of glass already then I suggest steering (pun) well clear of GP4000s, they will never last. I had punctures every 10 miles from fragments of glass with them. When I used clinchers the Michelin Pro series were always been far better to me. I use the service course version but there is also the endurance version which is billed as heavier duty. For commuting I just use Bontrager Hardcases and expect at least 10K miles out of them before the rubber falls off the casing. But they are a heavy commuting tyre, not the kind of thing you cross-shop with lightweight racing tyres.
  • northpole
    northpole Posts: 1,499
    If you are running with mudguards, why not just stick with 23mm tyres - I'm still in the camp of not knowing what all the fuss is about the mass move to 25's (please this is not an invitation to reply and tell me!!!).

    I run Michelin Pro 4 Endurance on my commuter bike - I ran Service Course for a year before this without any problems. Only reason for change was I bought a new set of wheels and thought I'd try the Endurance. I've had no problem commuting in central London with either.

    On my weekend bike I have been running Conti GP 4 Seasons for more than 4 Seasons. I know they aren't as nice as Conti Attack/ Force and probably GP4000s but out in country lanes I got so fed up being visited by the p*ncture fairies that I haven't bothered switching back this summer. Think I'll leave lighter tyres for Europe trips.

    Peter
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    I'm not that technically into it to say about 23 vs 25's. But the bike came with 25's and I'm happy with that so that's what I went for :P

    But I would like to know what effect 23c tubes in 25c tyres has
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    ....But I would like to know what effect 23c tubes in 25c tyres has
    Slightly undersize tubes should be fine. They'll just inflate a fraction more, they won't explode or anything.
  • Biomech
    Biomech Posts: 158
    Cool. So an update;

    I fitted the Michelin Pro4 Endurance front and back and will keep the old stock tyres as spares. The free 23c tubes are spares and put the 25's back in. Inflated the Pro4's - at a quick look with a ruler - come out at 26 (not 28 like some reports) and clearance is fine, even with the mudguards.

    So I'll get to test them out shortly :)
  • dave35
    dave35 Posts: 1,124
    Always found michelins prone to nicks and cuts, switched to vittoria open pave this year-a fanatastic grippy/fast tyre but after 1500 miles-mostly commuting and the odd 50 mile training ride the tread has started to fade.
    So do I replace like for like or switch to conti 4 seasons(I get them cheap) or some schwalbe Durano?
  • keezx
    keezx Posts: 1,322
    In that case I would take Conti GP, roll almost as good as the 4000s and with better puncture protection and price...
  • northpole
    northpole Posts: 1,499
    Always found michelins prone to nicks and cuts, switched to vittoria open pave this year-a fanatastic grippy/fast tyre but after 1500 miles-mostly commuting and the odd 50 mile training ride the tread has started to fade.
    So do I replace like for like or switch to conti 4 seasons(I get them cheap) or some schwalbe Durano?

    I'm wondering if you had problems with Michelin Pro3 or Pro4 - the Pro3 I found to be one of the most prone to sharpies I have some across. The Pro4's I found much more durable. I'm not sure that the GP4Seasons will provide any/ much more protection than the Pro4 Endurance and they tend to cost circa 50% more. I'm happy with both. Besides the Pro3's, the worst tyres I had for p*nctures were the Open Pave - I had a miserable time with them before chucking them in the bin. One slight quirk of the treaded nature of the GP4Seasons - they don't half chuck up lots of surface water if that's any consideration for you!

    Peter
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    I have recently fitted 25mm Michelin Pro4 SC on the summer bike and I'm enjoying the grip and the comfort provided by the extra volume. Think that's as fat a tyre as I'll get on the CR1. Yet to find out how they grip in the wet. Still no sign of wear, so I'm thinking they'll last fairly well. Certainly cheaper than the equivalent Conti tyre.

    I do have 25mm Conti GP4 Seasons on the winter/wet weather bike and they look skinny by comparison. I have been running them for 8 years and like their durability, puncture resistance and grip in the cold/wet. They are becoming eye-wateringly expensive though, so might give the Pro4 Endurance a go when these wear out...