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Rider down, Bank

AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
edited June 2015 in Commuting chat
Friend saw this happen this morning, female cyclist under a tipper truck. Twitter confirms the worst.

Stay safe everyone
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  • dhopedhope Posts: 6,699
    Friend saw this happen this morning, female cyclist under a tipper truck. Twitter confirms the worst.

    Stay safe everyone
    Not a great deal to add. I expect half the people here go through that junction.
    Very sad news.
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  • MrSwearyMrSweary Posts: 1,699
    Always gutting to read of this. RIP.
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  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,683
    Friend saw this happen this morning, female cyclist under a tipper truck. Twitter confirms the worst.

    Stay safe everyone

    oh censored i saw that too i'd assumed it was the motorbike nearby
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  • BrakelessBrakeless Posts: 867
    Terrible news. Thousands of vehicles on the roads yet it's nearly always [email protected] tipper trucks.
  • Levi_501Levi_501 Posts: 1,105
    Best regards and love for her friends and family
  • hegyestomihegyestomi Posts: 504
    :cry:
    RIP
  • davisdavis Posts: 2,566
    Bloody hell. Another family torn apart...

    :-(
    Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.
  • menthelmenthel Posts: 2,484
    Very sad.

    I suspect as we have already seen 8 people killed the numbers will be greater this year than last. Looking at the photo on the BBC website looks like another left turn incident too.
    RIP commute...
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  • SewinmanSewinman Posts: 2,131
    RIP.


    Another woman and another tipper truck.
  • hegyestomihegyestomi Posts: 504
    Just realized that I passed Bank probably 25 minutes before the accident. The roads were really packed today, traffic jams everywhere.
    :(
  • davisdavis Posts: 2,566
    Sewinman wrote:
    Another woman and another tipper truck.

    It's too common, isn't it?
    Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.
  • roger_merrimanroger_merriman Posts: 6,147
    Sewinman wrote:
    Another woman and another tipper truck.

    It's too common, isn't it?

    does seem to be.

    RIP
  • iPeteiPete Posts: 6,076
    :( very sad.

    Tipper
    Female
    Junction

    Far too common.
  • warrengwarreng Posts: 535
    I've just moved job from Covent Garden to Moorgate and that junction terrifies me. In fact the stretch from Oval to work is way, way more dangerous than anything I had to encounter. I have no idea why HGVs are allowed in Zone 1 in the rush hour.

    RIP
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  • The RookieThe Rookie Posts: 27,747
    I'm guess the tipper truck was still using the side intrusion bar exemption, that is why they are too commonly involved. Are women more likely to go up the inside/not going fast enough to keep clear than men?
  • rower63rower63 Posts: 1,991
    Even as a pedestrian that junction is horrid. You have to keep check of 3-4 directions simultaneously if you attempt to cross any of the roads without the benefit of a green man, not even counting the possibility of vehicles burnt-amber/light-jumping.
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  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 49,990 Lives Here
    I'm guess the tipper truck was still using the side intrusion bar exemption, that is why they are too commonly involved. Are women more likely to go up the inside/not going fast enough to keep clear than men?

    Think it's mainly a small sample size so difficult to draw too many conclusions, but the link above offers a few theories.

    Think it's more productive looking at why the cyclist/tipper truck combination is quite so deadly rather than looking at the gender of the cyclists.

    It has, dreadfully, happened enough that we're probably quite familiar with the theories on that.

    Always feels worse when it's a piece of road you use - the last 2 deaths have occurred on my commute.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,069
    :( very sad.

    Tipper
    Female
    Junction

    Far too common.

    Not wanting to start an argument but over the weekend at the Richmond roundabout (double carriageway) I saw 2:

    Female
    Cycling
    & Texting

    Interesting that there is also a segregated cycle lane that runs parallel, but no, best to check the Iphone while you are cycling on a dual carriageway... some people... :roll:
  • BrakelessBrakeless Posts: 867
    :( very sad.

    Tipper
    Female
    Junction

    Far too common.

    Not wanting to start an argument but over the weekend at the Richmond roundabout (double carriageway) I saw 2:

    Female
    Cycling
    & Texting

    Interesting that there is also a segregated cycle lane that runs parallel, but no, best to check the Iphone while you are cycling on a dual carriageway... some people... :roll:

    Have you turned into a Daily Mail reader

    The fact you saw someone texting on a bike is completely irrelevant to this.

    It's about as useful as saying 'Well they all run red lights, it's no wonder they get killed'

    I saw a couple of stupid things by cyclists today, but do know what, they were isolated incidents that had nothing to do with any other cycling incidents anywhere else.
  • LCC is organising a protest at Bank on Thursday morning.
    http://lcc.org.uk/events/bank-junction-protest

    OFFICIAL LCC EVENT
    Bank Junction protest
    24 June 2015 8am - 8:45am

    In response to the recent cycling fatalities in Harrow and at Bank, LCC is planning a flash protest at Bank on Wednesday 24th June.

    We will be gathering to remember the victim and highlight the need for safe space for cycling; not just at this location, but across London.

    Please meet at Bank junction at 8.30am. Alternatively, if you’d prefer to ride in with other cyclists, we’ll be gathering at two meeting locations:

    1) South side of Finsbury Circus at 8am
    2) London Bridge, west side, northern end at 8am

    Rides will leave these locations at 8.15am

    The protest will be held at Bank junction between 8.30-8.45am

    More must be done to create high quality space for cycling across London, to enable people of all ages and abilities to ride safely in our city. This includes making lorries safer.

    Please direct press enquiries to: 07979757100 or 020 7234 9310

    LCC Protest following the recent cyclist fatalities in Harrow and at Bank Junction. Join us to remember the victims and call for safe space for cycling across London.

    Check Twitter or Facebook for latest details:
    Facebook.com/LondonCyclingCampaign
    Twitter @london_cycling

    Contact details

    London Cycling Campaign Office 020 7234 9310 (Amy or Stewart)
  • rower63rower63 Posts: 1,991
    It was pointed out to me by another rider that we have basically had the same fatal accident now 15-odd times in the past 2 years. I can't see any amount of redesigned infrastructure solving the problem, which is cyclists and HGVs sharing junctions. What cannot change is that segregated cycle lanes must necessarily intersect at junctions, except there will be 2 sets of rules to interpret, not one.
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  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 25,069
    :( very sad.

    Tipper
    Female
    Junction

    Far too common.

    Not wanting to start an argument but over the weekend at the Richmond roundabout (double carriageway) I saw 2:

    Female
    Cycling
    & Texting

    Interesting that there is also a segregated cycle lane that runs parallel, but no, best to check the Iphone while you are cycling on a dual carriageway... some people... :roll:

    Have you turned into a Daily Mail reader

    The fact you saw someone texting on a bike is completely irrelevant to this.

    It's about as useful as saying 'Well they all run red lights, it's no wonder they get killed'

    I saw a couple of stupid things by cyclists today, but do know what, they were isolated incidents that had nothing to do with any other cycling incidents anywhere else.

    Possibly...

    I have had near misses, like everyone... I have never had a near miss with a HGV at a junction... I suspect it's got to do with positioning yourself on the road to prevent being cut or hit by large vehicles with limited visibility..
    Maybe there should be more education, maybe the lanes infrastructure should help with that, but I can't help thinking that it's not always and solely down to the vehicle. They are difficult things to maneuvre in small spaces and one should stay well away from them and for that awareness is key
  • rower63rower63 Posts: 1,991
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  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 19,683
    when i arrived at that junction this morning i could see four high viz plod just watching as everyone continued to run the lights in all directions, what has happened to obeying the law? and for that matter common sense.
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  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Firstly to the lady who lost her life, RIP.

    Secondly, in answer to the post above, you can't completely solve the problem but you can help reduce the potential for it happening. My issue with these protest groups is that they tend to perpetuate the mantra "us" against "them". This mentality leads us to a 'segregated' mentality and people who are ill prepared when a bicycle lane and road come together as they negotiate the shared use of a junction or traffic light. The simple fact is that we should be able to ride alongside motorised vehicles and all parties should be aware that they have a responsibility to not be a danger to themselves or others while using the road.

    Potential solutions:
    Problem junctions could have an additional light phase to allow cyclists to set off before the green light for motorised vehicles (a false amber?)

    Create ASLs in two places at problem junctions, one by the crossing and one several feet back, with a painted bath linking the two on the right to indicate to cyclist that once you hit this point you should be overtaking vehicles on the right.

    Allow cyclists to pass the crossing, but not the junction, when the light is red (a false ASL) there by creating space between them and the closest vehicle.

    To be honest these are all things I try to implement to negotiate junctions.
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  • dhopedhope Posts: 6,699
    Possibly...

    I have had near misses, like everyone... I have never had a near miss with a HGV at a junction... I suspect it's got to do with positioning yourself on the road to prevent being cut or hit by large vehicles with limited visibility..
    Maybe there should be more education, maybe the lanes infrastructure should help with that, but I can't help thinking that it's not always and solely down to the vehicle. They are difficult things to maneuvre in small spaces and one should stay well away from them and for that awareness is key

    Indeed. Not to begin victim blaming. But.
    There are so many instances of cyclists sitting in the blind spots of large vehicles. Whether it's that they don't see the problem or whether it's that they assumed/hoped there would be enough room to get past and ahead of the vehicle and then realised that there were already loads of cyclists at the front and they're then stuck alongside...

    I don't know the details of the Bank incident at all so I'm not saying this was the case. But people are impatient. Cyclists are impatient. They'll rush to the front and get stuck at the side. They'll move without knowing how long they've got before the lights change and traffic moves.

    And HGVs are fcuking deadly in towns, able to close off large areas of road in seconds as they turn.

    Cyclists need to be sensible (or - as Ugo said, better educated). Massive lorries need to GTFO at peak times.
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  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    To add:

    What is scary is that you don't realise how much long wheel base vehicles (like buses) shave corners until you've actually had one push you up a curb or worse.

    I rode up a cycle lane on the left to the ASL, to my dismay the light went green and the bus on my right started turning left (this was years back, on the corner of Tooting Bec station). As I started to slow I realised that the middle to the rear of the bus started closing in on me so I started riding forwards, but that wasn't enough as the gap between myself the curb and the bus was ever diminishing. Luckily, I was able to mount the curb or I was under. I've never shared that story to now but it changed me as a cyclist riding through London.

    One thing that leaves me wondering is why there are metal barriers on the corners of some junctions. If there was one where I was I wouldn't have been able to get out of the way.
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  • tgotbtgotb Posts: 4,714
    Potential solutions:
    Problem junctions could have an additional light phase to allow cyclists to set off before the green light for motorised vehicles (a false amber?)
    Nooooooo!

    This could even make the problem worse. As soon as the lights change to your "false amber" state, the cyclists in the ASL will all set off, which is fine, but there'll almost inevitably be a stream of optimistic filterers riding up the inside of the traffic to replace them. From what I've seen of the behaviour of many cyclists, many will assume that if it's safe for the rider in front to proceed, it's safe for them aswell.
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  • Kieran_BurnsKieran_Burns Posts: 10,052

    One thing that leaves me wondering is why there are metal barriers on the corners of some junctions. If there was one where I was I wouldn't have been able to get out of the way.


    Ironically for pedestrian safety
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  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Potential solutions:
    Problem junctions could have an additional light phase to allow cyclists to set off before the green light for motorised vehicles (a false amber?)
    Nooooooo!

    This could even make the problem worse. As soon as the lights change to your "false amber" state, the cyclists in the ASL will all set off, which is fine, but there'll almost inevitably be a stream of optimistic filterers riding up the inside of the traffic to replace them. From what I've seen of the behaviour of many cyclists, many will assume that if it's safe for the rider in front to proceed, it's safe for them aswell.
    Point taking there does seem to be that lemming effect of following the person in front (happens in cars as well).
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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