Cat 4 v Cat 3/4
LeighM
Posts: 156
Are there any advantages/disadvantages to riding in a cat 3/4 race versus a cat 4? I'd like to give it a go, but my nearest circuit is Darley Moor, which seem to only run 3/4 events.
I've got no illusions about winning, i'd just rather not get spat out the back on the first lap, and I've sort of convinced myself that a 3/4 race will be faster than a 4.
I imagine there are plenty who race in cat 4 who are faster/stronger than some cat 3 riders, so does it really matter?
I've got no illusions about winning, i'd just rather not get spat out the back on the first lap, and I've sort of convinced myself that a 3/4 race will be faster than a 4.
I imagine there are plenty who race in cat 4 who are faster/stronger than some cat 3 riders, so does it really matter?
0
Comments
-
Cat 3/4 races from my experience (on the same flat circuit) were a little faster and generally had more attacks. There are no points on offer so people tend to get stuck in and try to form breaks.
Cat 4 was a little bit slower with most people being very conservative and waiting until the very end to attack/sprint to aim for points. If you can attack from far out, you can really catch most people snoozing.
But in short, it doesn't really matter, give the 3/4 races a go if that's what is on.0 -
There are no points on offer
Really? Why...?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621369#p19621369]KnightOfTheLongTights[/url] wrote:There are no points on offer
Really? Why...?
'cos the levies and therefore the races are cheaper, and it attracts a different group of racers who are simply points chasers, well worth having in the calendar.
3/4 vs 4 really depends on who's there, there's no automatic reason that they should be very different, it's unlikely that the difference is enough to define if you'll hold or not. In both kinds of races there are way too many people who don't understand it's a race and just ride around on the front a bit hard.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
jim is quite right, it depends on who is there. Three of our club have started racing at Darley Moor this year for the first time, no previous experience or indeed, racing licences. They started with the cat 3/4's; one is now cat 2, the other two are one point off cat 3. As you know Darley is flat and usually quite windy, so there are not that many successful breaks. A race at Darley Moor looks like this (not one of our riders): https://www.strava.com/activities/314698473
The best thing to do is rock up and have a go - what could possibly go wrong
"It must be true, it's on the internet" - Winston Churchill0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19621369#p19621369]KnightOfTheLongTights[/url] wrote:There are no points on offer
Really? Why...?
Cat 4 is basically a beginners league and people should earn their points without the assistance of cat 3 riders.. I guess.0 -
Cat 4 is basically a beginners league and people should earn their points without the assistance of cat 3 riders.. I guess.
If I understand that correctly, I could win a Cat 3/4 but would score zero points?0 -
Cat 4 is basically a beginners league and people should earn their points without the assistance of cat 3 riders.. I guess.
If I understand that correctly, I could win a Cat 3/4 but would score zero points?
Correct, points vary and you can also have Cat 4 races with no points on offer (Reg C and Go-Race).
You'll want to look out for Regional C+
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/road/article/roadst_National_Regional_Rankings_Explained0 -
Been a while but my memory of 4th cat races is that they are noticeably easier than 3rd cat races and that 3rd cat are noticeably easier than 2nd cat - I never bother with 1st cat races!
Agree that you may as well have a go though - there will be a big bunch at Darley so if you are able to hold a position near the front it wont be "that" hard and if you prefer to ride at the back it'll be much harder - that will have a bigger influence than the category of rider on a circuit with a big field.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I didn't really feel too out of place in the 3/4 races I did out on the open roads (not done a 3/4 crit yet though) and find the average 3rd cat is about the same ability as the average 4th cat- but at the top end there are many more 'good' riders.
There were always crashes though, so I can't say they were any safer (if anything they were worse tbh).
I think the crit races could be a fair bit harder though- over the shorter distance the top riders in the field won't be messing around.0 -
It's likely that a 3/4 crit will be quicker than a 4th only crit as there will probably be more experienced and stronger riders in the former. I have ridden in 4th only races that have been quicker than 3/4s though - as well as ones that have been much slower and more negative - it varies race to race. I've also been dropped on the first lap in the only (extremely hilly) 3/4 road race I've done so far!0
-
On flat road/airfield courses, my Cat 4 only experiences saw average speeds of around 40/41kmh for 40 minutes.
On similar terrain, Cat 3/4 was 43/44 for twice as long.
The difference in speed was primarily due to there being more thoughtful souls at 3/4 who would keep the pace high. Following the bunch in straight line or sweeping bends was no harder than at 4.
The biggest difference at 3/4 was how fast other riders accelerated out of bends or for tactical positioning. In Cat 4, I could see a gap, and get into it. At Cat 3/4 I'd see a gap and get beaten to it.
The language was generally better at Cat 4 only. There are some very rude Cat 3 riders in my part of the world!
I am now retired, having found my level at around Cat 4.5. :oops:0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671515#p19671515]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:The difference in speed was primarily due to there being more thoughtful souls at 3/4 who would keep the pace high.
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671515#p19671515]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:The difference in speed was primarily due to there being more thoughtful souls at 3/4 who would keep the pace high.
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.
It certainly made sense on the lumpier / more technical courses, as the high speed got rid of the weaker riders, making for a safer race and reducing the chances of being outsprinted by a wheelsucker. (Or so I'm told - I was generally being got rid of in such circumstances!)
On the flatter / non-technical courses then it did seem a bit strange, as it meant that the weaker riders with a bit of a sprint just had to wheelsuck a fairly constant pace and stay upright to be in with a chance of points.0 -
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.
I don't see why it is a mistake? It's only a mistake if you can't hold it...0 -
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.
I don't see why it is a mistake? It's only a mistake if you can't hold it...
Even if you can hold it, you'd be better off being off the front doing it.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
But that really depends on your reasons. If there is a group of you who want to string it out and lose the chancers then it's a good idea. Conversely, there may be a lumpier section in the race and you want to get there before the lighter guys do. I've been to races where we had a friend who was a strong sprinter needing just a few points so we went hard from the start and by the end there were only a few left so he got his points almost by default. Job done. Or early in the season when all the new racers rock up and crash every lap so it's better to go to the front and keep the pace up so they can't get there. Too many variables to just disregard them as idiots.0
-
I am a cat 4 if I won the last race I was in, I didn't I would won 15 points. Points are available to cat 4's in a cat3/4 race. How quick depends on the course and who is there. I spent all last year getting dropped from road races did about 10 of them because I was not fit enough. Spent a lot of time sorting my fittness out but still for until june this year i was getting dropped from every race then i found some form (but bad luck or illness ensured I got no points) but then lost the form and started getting dropped again in the last few weeks or if am am on the pace I mess it up somehow. I forgot my shoes for one road race this year but still managed a bunch finish riding with driving shoes. So give it a go. Oh circuit racing and road racing are totally different. Do both but circuit racing is a bit loveless for me I love road racing though it is far more involving and longer.
Essentially of you are any good you will get results if you are not you won't but if you enjoy it as I do it does not really matter.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
You finished a race in driving shoes?! Hahaha thats amazing0
-
All of the races up here seem to be E/1/2/3/4 so I don't even have the option of 3/4...
I wouldn't mind a go, one of my colleagues is a cat 2 and reckons I could manage a bunch finish. Unfortunately I don't find the prospect of racing where the best I can possibly hope for is to maybe finish with the bunch if I am lucky to be particularly inspiring. Would probably be a good experience though.0 -
I wouldn't mind a go, one of my colleagues is a cat 2 and reckons I could manage a bunch finish.
The difficult thing is being anywhere near the sharp end at the finish!Unfortunately I don't find the prospect of racing where the best I can possibly hope for is to maybe finish with the bunch if I am lucky to be particularly inspiring.
In a Cat 3/4 road race, simply finishing with the bunch is an achievement. (Or at least it was for me!) The typical North Yorks road race league is 55k, at an average speed of 41+ kmh, with 60+ lycra clad warriors all going for it. It's far from unusual to hit speeds of 45kmh on the flat in the neutral zone and be in the red zone before the race officially starts!
Definitely a brilliant experience though.0 -
FWIW, my perspective was that I only had a go at circuit racing and did not really enjoy it. Fitness wasn't an issue - but I just wasn't driven enough to take the risks required to stay at the sharp end with one / two laps to go.
I was never involved in a crash but at >40 years of age I just decided I wasn't bothered enough to take the significant risk of ending up on the deck.
Plus if you only get to ride one day of the weekend and that is spent hooning round a grey race-track in some suburban dump then you start to question, is this really why I got into cycling?0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19704166#p19704166]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:
I wouldn't mind a go, one of my colleagues is a cat 2 and reckons I could manage a bunch finish.
The difficult thing is being anywhere near the sharp end at the finish!Unfortunately I don't find the prospect of racing where the best I can possibly hope for is to maybe finish with the bunch if I am lucky to be particularly inspiring.
In a Cat 3/4 road race, simply finishing with the bunch is an achievement. (Or at least it was for me!) The typical North Yorks road race league is 55k, at an average speed of 41+ kmh, with 60+ lycra clad warriors all going for it. It's far from unusual to hit speeds of 45kmh on the flat in the neutral zone and be in the red zone before the race officially starts!
Definitely a brilliant experience though.
Yeah, I am sure it would be a really good workout and really good for my bike handling skills and all that. But if all I want to do is get a good workout and then get dropped by a bunch of cat 1/2 riders I can do that any Tuesday evening for free
(when they overtake us at the APR chaingang...) 0 -
Yeah, I am sure it would be a really good workout and really good for my bike handling skills and all that. But if all I want to do is get a good workout and then get dropped by a bunch of cat 1/2 riders I can do that any Tuesday evening for free (when they overtake us at the APR chaingang...)
You hopefully don't get any current Cat 1/2 riders in a Cat 3/4 race!
I take your point though. Paying to race to get a pasting is an acquired taste. One thing I did notice was that racing (even badly) made me so much faster in the weekly club chaingangs, which is where the real competition was!0 -
But I don't have the choice of 3/4 races really as they all seem to be e/1/2/3/4 up here. I did see one 4ths only down near Dundee if I remember correctly and it sold out almost instantly.0
-
But I don't have the choice of 3/4 races really as they all seem to be e/1/2/3/4 up here. I did see one 4ths only down near Dundee if I remember correctly and it sold out almost instantly.
I see. I can see your issue here - I wouldn't want to mix it with Cat 1/2 guys in a race based on the odd experience of being on a chaingang with such types. :shock:0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671515#p19671515]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:The difference in speed was primarily due to there being more thoughtful souls at 3/4 who would keep the pace high.
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.
Unless you are training for form and want to put your nose in the wind a bit.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671515#p19671515]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:The difference in speed was primarily due to there being more thoughtful souls at 3/4 who would keep the pace high.
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.
Unless you are training for form and want to put your nose in the wind a bit.
You can do that without paying £20 for the pleasure.Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671515#p19671515]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:The difference in speed was primarily due to there being more thoughtful souls at 3/4 who would keep the pace high.
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.
Unless you are training for form and want to put your nose in the wind a bit.
You can do that without paying £20 for the pleasure.
True but it is easier mentally to push yourself in a race situation than in training and you never know your attack 50k out could for a break and stay away, two birds with one stone0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19671515#p19671515]Wallace and Gromit[/url] wrote:The difference in speed was primarily due to there being more thoughtful souls at 3/4 who would keep the pace high.
I think you mean idiots, keeping the pace high is a mistake in racing.
Unless you are training for form and want to put your nose in the wind a bit.
You can do that without paying £20 for the pleasure.
For me I find my form developes from racing, some people are super fit all year round, this makes me sharper rather than sitting in all race.0 -
cat 3/4 races seem to have more experienced riders so you feel a lot safer in the pack, people know how to work together in breaks, the only real downside is if you struggle in cat 4 races you'll most probably find the speed 1-2mph faster. Your 3 options are to get low, buy shiny new aero tubs and talk about how much nicer the ride is or get out and ride the bike more, adding intervals to your training to try and get used to more explosive riding0
