Anyone see Panorama - microdosing EPO??

keef66

Managed not to catch this last night but heard a bit on the radio this morning. Anyone watch it? The clip made it sound as if it's easy to do without fear of direct detection and without suspicious effects on blood parameters / bio passport. The reporter claimed to have achieved a 7% improvement in cycling performance; didn't mention what / how this was measured; presumably some kind of power...

How does it improve performance without affecting red blood cells?? Or is it just a matter of degree? Or doing it so gradually it could be argued it's been achieved by training / legal means, altitude etc.

Is it worth a watch on catch up?

markhewitt1978

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... if-you-can

Someone posted elsewhere - A journalist took it and the results were VO2 max 58 to 63 after 3 weeks and (what I assume is average) Max power 350 - after 375 watts

keef66

I would watch the iPlayer at lunchtime, but cos I'm at work it thinks I'm in Germany so it won't let me

It'll be on Virgin catchup for a week so I'll get it tonight

DeVlaeminck

Itwas mainly about athletics and casting doubts on Alberto Salazar's coaching, of course he coaches Mo Farah so quite a big deal. Also had some accusations about Alan Wells and steroids and then the journalists own experiment with micro dosing.

It was worth watching probably just as a reminder at sport is not clean now and probably never has been.

supermurph09

I'd imagine "Chinese EPO" is now high on the search engine lists.

Buying and administering seemingly quite easy, but do you have a doctor on standby checking your blood isnt turning to sludge?

keef66

Just to be clear, I'm not contemplating doping myself! I'm nearing 58 and racing nobody but the grim reaper

But I can see why the professionals would be tempted if they are offered the possibility of a performance hike with little or no risk of detection...

Makes me think the ones who do get busted are either badly advised or stupid or all three.

katiebob

The BBC story if you havent got iplayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32983932

keef66

katiebob wrote:

The BBC story if you havent got iplayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32983932

Thanks for that; interesting read and I think quite a balanced bit of investigational journalism.

jgsi

If you or your coach supplies a tue, then simply put, you are ill
therefore you should not be competing, so your results if you did are nullified and you made to recover for a month after minimum.
End of.
That stops that little 'getaround cheating'.

katiebob

keef66 wrote:

katiebob wrote:

The BBC story if you havent got iplayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32983932

Thanks for that; interesting read and I think quite a balanced bit of investigational journalism.

Yeah I enjoyed it. Clicked on it as a way to pass the time and ended up reading the whole thing!

keef66

jgsi wrote:

If you or your coach supplies a tue, then simply put, you are ill
therefore you should not be competing, so your results if you did are nullified and you made to recover for a month after minimum.
End of.
That stops that little 'getaround cheating'.

?? No mention of TUE's in that article. Were they mentioned in the broadcast program then??

I don't know exactly how it's administered but I've often thought it sounded like the TUE system could be open to abuse myself

jgsi

Yup.. tue s were mentioned.... used by Nike project to keep 'sick' athletes 'going'.

Alex_Simmons/RST

keef66 wrote:

How does it improve performance without affecting red blood cells??

The BP is not a direct detection method. It is based on long term statistical analysis of blood parameters. If values don't flag as anomalous relative to plausible long term ranges for that athlete, then it won't tell you if someone is or is not doping, only that the probability of significant doping is low.

Tests conducted over a period of 2-3 months are inadequate to determine whether one can beat the BP since one can microdose for shorter periods, but they are unlikely to maintain a daily/weekly regime for years without stopping at some point along the way

The BP needs years of data, which is why some BP cases are not opened until years after a reading which was only just determined to be anomalous relative to long term trends.

colinsmith123

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

keef66 wrote:

How does it improve performance without affecting red blood cells??

The BP is not a direct detection method. It is based on long term statistical analysis of blood parameters. If values don't flag as anomalous relative to plausible long term ranges for that athlete, then it won't tell you if someone is or is not doping, only that the probability of significant doping is low.

Tests conducted over a period of 2-3 months are inadequate to determine whether one can beat the BP since one can microdose for shorter periods, but they are unlikely to maintain a daily/weekly regime for years without stopping at some point along the way

The BP needs years of data, which is why some BP cases are not opened until years after a reading which was only just determined to be anomalous relative to long term trends.

Alex I think I've grasped what you have said and so, just to be clear in my own foggy mind, providing an athlete keeps micro-dosing, and I think we mean specifically EPO, this will not show up as anomalous in the BP until that athlete stops.

If this is the case, then am I right to fear we're back to square one again? Long live the omerta.