Toughest climb in Majorca ?

Tjgoodhew
Tjgoodhew Posts: 628
edited June 2015 in Road general
Help settle an argument for me.

Which is toughest - Sa Calobra, Puig Major or something else ?
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Comments

  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,235
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!
    This would be what we technically refer to as nonsense. I just got back from there. The last 4k of Sa Calobra doesn't drop below 9% and has sustained 10+% stretches. True its a steady climb, but not a big ring in sight. I did it in 38 minutes in a 34/23 or 25. The kom is 25 mins. I reckon that would be about the middle of a cassette on a 36 inner. Dude here must be some kind of awesome.

    The Puig is as hard as you ride it. Some people find long climbs hard. That's a 50 min 14km climb. You might hate it. Personally for me short and sharp or variable pitch is harder. Not so many of those I could find in Mallorca.

    EDIT: In answer to your question, of the two, Sa Colebra. On the main routes there's nothing close. Col D'Orient and Col de Soller (depending on which side you approach) are a bit steeper in places, but both quite a lot shorter. I was scanning maps and I reckon there's a couple of fairly tough dead ends near Soller which might be quite tough, given that you have to climb to get to the start - difficult to tell if they are cyclable though - I'll let you know in September.
  • SoSimple
    SoSimple Posts: 301
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!

    Care to name a couple?
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,235
    SoSimple wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!

    Care to name a couple?
    Jump over the gate at the military site at Puig Major, past the guards and then up to the radar station at 4,500ft. With guard dogs chasing you down, that's one tough climb, bro.
  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!

    My hero.
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    First Aspect wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!
    This would be what we technically refer to as nonsense. I just got back from there. The last 4k of Sa Calobra doesn't drop below 9% and has sustained 10+% stretches. True its a steady climb, but not a big ring in sight. I did it in 38 minutes in a 34/23 or 25. The kom is 25 mins. I reckon that would be about the middle of a cassette on a 36 inner. Dude here must be some kind of awesome.

    The Puig is as hard as you ride it. Some people find long climbs hard. That's a 50 min 14km climb. You might hate it. Personally for me short and sharp or variable pitch is harder. Not so many of those I could find in Mallorca.

    EDIT: In answer to your question, of the two, Sa Colebra. On the main routes there's nothing close. Col D'Orient and Col de Soller (depending on which side you approach) are a bit steeper in places, but both quite a lot shorter. I was scanning maps and I reckon there's a couple of fairly tough dead ends near Soller which might be quite tough, given that you have to climb to get to the start - difficult to tell if they are cyclable though - I'll let you know in September.

    So because you rode up on a compact on the small ring you assume that it is the same for everyone? Both climbs are easily doable in 53/23 by someone who is pretty fit. You, I am afraid are talking nonsense as I have seen these climbs done in the big ring many, many times.

    There are some real steep climbs near to San Salvador and also on the puig close to Pollenca / Puerto Pollenca. The road up to the radar station on Puig Major is pretty tough plus others dotted around.

    I suggest you spend a bit more time over there and learn the roads and climbs.

    By the way, the fact that these are doable in the 53 ring does not mean that you are weak or inferior if you can't / haven't. It is merely illustrating that they aren't particularly hard / challenging.
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    bernithebiker wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!

    My hero.

    Is there something wrong with you?
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Sa Colabra isn't *that* hard, I managed it and I've about as weak as they come. Hell I did the first 10 minutes in the big ring before I noticed I was in the wrong gear!

    Of course the harder climb is not just Sa Colabra on it's own but then continuing up to the Puig Major.

    Also the two roads out of Soller are hard, firstly the reverse climb back up to the Puig Major, long and quite steep in places. Then the hairpin roads which go over the Soller tunnel.
  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!
    This would be what we technically refer to as nonsense. I just got back from there. The last 4k of Sa Calobra doesn't drop below 9% and has sustained 10+% stretches. True its a steady climb, but not a big ring in sight. I did it in 38 minutes in a 34/23 or 25. The kom is 25 mins. I reckon that would be about the middle of a cassette on a 36 inner. Dude here must be some kind of awesome.

    The Puig is as hard as you ride it. Some people find long climbs hard. That's a 50 min 14km climb. You might hate it. Personally for me short and sharp or variable pitch is harder. Not so many of those I could find in Mallorca.

    EDIT: In answer to your question, of the two, Sa Colebra. On the main routes there's nothing close. Col D'Orient and Col de Soller (depending on which side you approach) are a bit steeper in places, but both quite a lot shorter. I was scanning maps and I reckon there's a couple of fairly tough dead ends near Soller which might be quite tough, given that you have to climb to get to the start - difficult to tell if they are cyclable though - I'll let you know in September.

    So because you rode up on a compact on the small ring you assume that it is the same for everyone? Both climbs are easily doable in 53/23 by someone who is pretty fit. You, I am afraid are talking nonsense as I have seen these climbs done in the big ring many, many times.

    There are some real steep climbs near to San Salvador and also on the puig close to Pollenca / Puerto Pollenca. The road up to the radar station on Puig Major is pretty tough plus others dotted around.

    I suggest you spend a bit more time over there and learn the roads and climbs.

    By the way, the fact that these are doable in the 53 ring does not mean that you are weak or inferior if you can't / haven't. It is merely illustrating that they aren't particularly hard / challenging.

    Why is it then that in the Tour de France, when riding in the mountains, doing climbs like Aspin, Madeleine, etc. that the pros have a small ring? Surely it would be better to dispense with the front derailleur entirely and just ride the whole lot in the big ring?

    And if you're riding Sa Calobra in 53-23, don't you get through quite a lot of chains per year?
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    First Aspect wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Something else. Both those are comfortably big ring climbs. There are some real tough climbs there, you'l just need to find them!
    This would be what we technically refer to as nonsense. I just got back from there. The last 4k of Sa Calobra doesn't drop below 9% and has sustained 10+% stretches. True its a steady climb, but not a big ring in sight. I did it in 38 minutes in a 34/23 or 25. The kom is 25 mins. I reckon that would be about the middle of a cassette on a 36 inner. Dude here must be some kind of awesome.

    No, a 53/23 at about 70 rpm would nt get you anywhere near the KOM so its doable by many cyclists.
    even you say the KOM could have been done, middle cassette (17t) with a 36t front? wells thats a 4.5m gear, a 53x23 is 4.8m, hardly a massive difference.

    i m not saying that is the best gear for the climb esp as part of a much longer ride but its more than doable and not in the awesome league.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,235
    Uh huh.

    So either you guys climb at about 50 rpm, you are pro riders or you are making stuff up.

    A 52,23 gear at 80rpm is about 22.5kph. At 85rpm that's over 24rpm. Sa calobra is 9.5km. I reckon you climb it in around 25 minutes then. The best time for the current world hour record holder is 27 minutes.

    No its not that challenging, unless of course you try to do it in 25 minutes at a VAM of about 1500.

    The Puig is a little longer but shallower and so rather easier. The steepest I measured was 8 or 9% for short stretches. I don't believe that recreational cyclists are allowed up to the radar station, so hard to vouch for its difficulty.
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    First Aspect wrote:
    Uh huh.

    So either you guys climb at about 50 rpm, you are pro riders or you are making stuff up.

    A 52,23 gear at 80rpm is about 22.5kph. At 85rpm that's over 24rpm. Sa calobra is 9.5km. I reckon you climb it in around 25 minutes then. The best time for the current world hour record holder is 27 minutes.

    No its not that challenging, unless of course you try to do it in 25 minutes at a VAM of about 1500.

    The Puig is a little longer but shallower and so rather easier. The steepest I measured was 8 or 9% for short stretches. I don't believe that recreational cyclists are allowed up to the radar station, so hard to vouch for its difficulty.

    its not about what i can climb it at, its that you said it was "nonsense" (to climb it in a 53/23) and it plainly is not, many riders will climb out the saddle at 60 to 70 rpm and be perfectly happy doing so for 30mins or so, they arnt pro's but could just be stronger and fitter than you or I and prefer a different climbing style to that currently in vogue.

    fwiw i think the Puig from soller is a horrible climb, possibly because from where i stay, i ve done several hours of riding to get to it :(
  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Lookyhere wrote:
    No, a 53/23 at about 70 rpm would nt get you anywhere near the KOM so its doable by many cyclists.

    This is plain wrong. 53/23 at 70 rpm would put you in the top 25 (out of 15 000 riders) and in spitting distance of the KOM.

    So no, 53/23 @ 70, up Sa Calobra is NOT doable by many cyclists.

    Now as to the question, can you get up Sa Calobra in 53/23, well yeah, I dare say I and many others could (albeit at much less than 70 cadence), but why would you when you have a perfectly good small ring?
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    bernithebiker wrote:
    Lookyhere wrote:
    No, a 53/23 at about 70 rpm would nt get you anywhere near the KOM so its doable by many cyclists.

    This is plain wrong. 53/23 at 70 rpm would put you in the top 25 (out of 15 000 riders) and in spitting distance of the KOM.

    So no, 53/23 @ 70, up Sa Calobra is NOT doable by many cyclists.

    Now as to the question, can you get up Sa Calobra in 53/23, well yeah, I dare say I and many others could (albeit at much less than 70 cadence), but why would you when you have a perfectly good small ring?

    we will have to disagree on this, 20th place is almost 3km per hour slower and over 3mins longer than the KOM so no where near, out of 15000 is irrelevant, also, not everyone is on Strava, so none of us know how many can get up here on those gears/cadence, 20 or so riders is "many".
    Aspect said it was basically impossible to climb in a 53/23 which it clearly isnt and RH also didnt give an rpm figure, just that the climb is doable on that gear.
    i also went on to say that it possibly isnt the best gear for this climb, esp as part of a longer ride, so we can agree on that at least.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Sa Colabra isn't *that* hard, I managed it and I've about as weak as they come. Hell I did the first 10 minutes in the big ring before I noticed I was in the wrong gear!

    Of course the harder climb is not just Sa Colabra on it's own but then continuing up to the Puig Major.

    Also the two roads out of Soller are hard, firstly the reverse climb back up to the Puig Major, long and quite steep in places. Then the hairpin roads which go over the Soller tunnel.
    Interested to hear you comments Mark, A few of us are off to Mallorca later this week, where did you stay/start your ride from? I know the gradients on sa colabra average out at 7%ish wondered what the max gradient was and for how long. And how much bearing does the heat play, we're leaving it relatively late in the year for cycling in Mallorca, anybody any tips on average cyclists climbing in the heat? ie make sure you fill up bidons at the bottom?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Lookyhere wrote:
    bernithebiker wrote:
    Lookyhere wrote:
    No, a 53/23 at about 70 rpm would nt get you anywhere near the KOM so its doable by many cyclists.

    This is plain wrong. 53/23 at 70 rpm would put you in the top 25 (out of 15 000 riders) and in spitting distance of the KOM.

    So no, 53/23 @ 70, up Sa Calobra is NOT doable by many cyclists.

    Now as to the question, can you get up Sa Calobra in 53/23, well yeah, I dare say I and many others could (albeit at much less than 70 cadence), but why would you when you have a perfectly good small ring?

    we will have to disagree on this, 20th place is almost 3km per hour slower and over 3mins longer than the KOM so no where near, out of 15000 is irrelevant, also, not everyone is on Strava, so none of us know how many can get up here on those gears/cadence, 20 or so riders is "many".
    Aspect said it was basically impossible to climb in a 53/23 which it clearly isnt and RH also didnt give an rpm figure, just that the climb is doable on that gear.
    i also went on to say that it possibly isnt the best gear for this climb, esp as part of a longer ride, so we can agree on that at least.

    I can't see where FA said it was impossible?

    Suffice to say, that if you're in the top 25 for climbing Sa Calobra, you're a pretty sh!t hot cyclist who will win just about any amateur race you care to enter, and your gear advice probably doesn't pertain to the vast majority on here.

    Also you misquote RH, what he actually said was that it is a "comfortable big ring climb" (not that it's 'doable').

    Unless you're a very strong rider (and who knows, maybe RH is?), 53-23, is NOT going to be comfortable on Sa Calobra. (Either for you or the chain).
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    I think some people need to go out for a ride, in any gear they choose. Leave the putdowns and willy waving to fat chefs.
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    You all have gone off topic a little The point is that neither Puig Major nor Sa Calobra are particularly challenging or hard climbs. they are both well surfaced with a pretty consistent gradient and nothing particularly steep. I was illustrating that by virtue of the fact that they can be ridden pretty comfortably in the big ring (53/23). Nowhere did I say that a cadence of 70, 90 or 110 was being maintained. I may be making a massive assumption but the riders that have done this are most likely more experienced that the posters responding and stronger all round riders. The fact that they can comfortably get up these climbs in the big ring is merely an illustration that they aren't that hard. There are other more challenging climbs in Majorca.

    Please bear in mind that to most riders in the south east, a trip to Box Hill is the equivalent to a day out on the Tourmalet so these things are all relative.

    this isn't a pi$$ing contest so don't get all pre-menstrual about things. Just take it on good authority from people more experienced and better cyclists than you that they aren't that hard. Also bear in mind that not everyone posts on Strava so any times on there in the top 50 are most likely only among the top 200 overall times.
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    i dont disagree with a lot of what you say Bernie but FA called it "technically nonsense" and RH was "awesome" so basically saying he is a liar/bull shiXXer etc.
    comfortable or doable...same thing isnt it? a climb like Sa Colabra is never going to be "comfortable" in almost any gear, its long and up hill !
    i also didnt say this was my climbing gear recommendation either, such advice is meaningless as cyclists cover such a wide range of abilities, age and experience.

    But lets face it, the climbs in Majorca are all so lovely that "toughest" doesn't really come into it, low altitudes, nice road surfaces, great climate in the spring and fantastic places to stop for coffee and almond cake! what more do you want!
  • feelgoodlost
    feelgoodlost Posts: 337
    bianchimoon wrote:
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Sa Colabra isn't *that* hard, I managed it and I've about as weak as they come. Hell I did the first 10 minutes in the big ring before I noticed I was in the wrong gear!

    Of course the harder climb is not just Sa Colabra on it's own but then continuing up to the Puig Major.

    Also the two roads out of Soller are hard, firstly the reverse climb back up to the Puig Major, long and quite steep in places. Then the hairpin roads which go over the Soller tunnel.
    Interested to hear you comments Mark, A few of us are off to Mallorca later this week, where did you stay/start your ride from? I know the gradients on sa colabra average out at 7%ish wondered what the max gradient was and for how long. And how much bearing does the heat play, we're leaving it relatively late in the year for cycling in Mallorca, anybody any tips on average cyclists climbing in the heat? ie make sure you fill up bidons at the bottom?

    I was there in April - My only advice would be to pace yourself. There's a few stalls etc. at the bottom of Sa Calobra where you can top up on water & food (don't eat too much!!!) and then there's a stall near the top that has fresh oranges and drinks if you've ran out. Back to my first point - there's really no point in trying to go hell for leather because when you go down Sa Calobra/Puig Major to the Ports, you'll know exactly what you're in for when you turn round and come back up. Just take your time and push yourself towards the top if you're feeling good. Enjoy the views and wear a full zip jersey that you can open right up if needs be. It's a joyous place to cycle and I enjoyed every minute of it :D:D
    https://www.strava.com/athletes/442763
  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    Lookyhere wrote:
    comfortable or doable...same thing isnt it?

    Not in my book. As I said before, I COULD do it in 53-23, it just wouldn't be comfortable or a good idea.

    Not sure if the Spanish class their climbs as the French do, but Sa Calobra would fall easily into a Cat 1 climb, as would Puig Major, so whilst not as tough as an HC, they're still quite challenging for most riders. They are both fairly 'big' climbs, and the 2 biggest on Mallorca.

    Of course we will never know, but I'll eat my hat if the vast majority of the Top 25 on Strava were not in the small ring. After all, if you're not going to use it on a tough Cat 1 climb, when are you going to use it? Just on HC's? Unlikely.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    feelgoodlost wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    markhewitt1978 wrote:
    Sa Colabra isn't *that* hard, I managed it and I've about as weak as they come. Hell I did the first 10 minutes in the big ring before I noticed I was in the wrong gear!

    Of course the harder climb is not just Sa Colabra on it's own but then continuing up to the Puig Major.

    Also the two roads out of Soller are hard, firstly the reverse climb back up to the Puig Major, long and quite steep in places. Then the hairpin roads which go over the Soller tunnel.
    Interested to hear you comments Mark, A few of us are off to Mallorca later this week, where did you stay/start your ride from? I know the gradients on sa colabra average out at 7%ish wondered what the max gradient was and for how long. And how much bearing does the heat play, we're leaving it relatively late in the year for cycling in Mallorca, anybody any tips on average cyclists climbing in the heat? ie make sure you fill up bidons at the bottom?

    I was there in April - My only advice would be to pace yourself. There's a few stalls etc. at the bottom of Sa Calobra where you can top up on water & food (don't eat too much!!!) and then there's a stall near the top that has fresh oranges and drinks if you've ran out. Back to my first point - there's really no point in trying to go hell for leather because when you go down Sa Calobra/Puig Major to the Ports, you'll know exactly what you're in for when you turn round and come back up. Just take your time and push yourself towards the top if you're feeling good. Enjoy the views and wear a full zip jersey that you can open right up if needs be. It's a joyous place to cycle and I enjoyed every minute of it :D:D
    appreciate that advice, were riding from Port de Pollenca to Sa Colabra and back, should be fun!
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    Fill up bidons at the top, less weight to carry on Sa Colabra

    Although no cafe at top of Puig Major, just the drop to the viaduct cafe.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • bernithebiker
    bernithebiker Posts: 4,148
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Fill up bidons at the top, less weight to carry on Sa Colabra

    Although no cafe at top of Puig Major, just the drop to the viaduct cafe.

    Isn't there a cafe on the 270' bend (very near the top)?

    Have to say, I've never stopped there, but I'm sure I've seen people drinking outside it!
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Fill up bidons at the top, less weight to carry on Sa Colabra

    Although no cafe at top of Puig Major, just the drop to the viaduct cafe.
    Are Sa Colabra and Puig Major two separate climbs?, plan was Pollenca to port de Soller via sa Colabra?
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    bianchimoon wrote:
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Fill up bidons at the top, less weight to carry on Sa Colabra

    Although no cafe at top of Puig Major, just the drop to the viaduct cafe.
    Are Sa Colabra and Puig Major two separate climbs?, plan was Pollenca to port de Soller via sa Colabra?

    Yes they are but you can do both on the way to Soller.
  • bianchimoon
    bianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    bianchimoon wrote:
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Fill up bidons at the top, less weight to carry on Sa Colabra

    Although no cafe at top of Puig Major, just the drop to the viaduct cafe.
    Are Sa Colabra and Puig Major two separate climbs?, plan was Pollenca to port de Soller via sa Colabra?

    Yes they are but you can do both on the way to Soller.
    Thanks will see how fitness/committment/strength holds out in those temperatures
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    bernithebiker wrote:
    Lookyhere wrote:
    comfortable or doable...same thing isnt it?

    Not in my book. As I said before, I COULD do it in 53-23, it just wouldn't be comfortable or a good idea.

    Not sure if the Spanish class their climbs as the French do, but Sa Calobra would fall easily into a Cat 1 climb, as would Puig Major, so whilst not as tough as an HC, they're still quite challenging for most riders. They are both fairly 'big' climbs, and the 2 biggest on Mallorca.

    Of course we will never know, but I'll eat my hat if the vast majority of the Top 25 on Strava were not in the small ring. After all, if you're not going to use it on a tough Cat 1 climb, when are you going to use it? Just on HC's? Unlikely.

    we were there this year and tbh they are nothing compared to high alpine climbs, where you lose on avg about 5% of your vo2 every 500m of ascent, Mallorcan climbs never take you above 700m, where as in the Dolomites, your starting most at 1500m and topping out at way over 2000m, i know where i find it the toughest to ride, regardless of grade.
    wouldnt the french guide lines put both as cat 2 climbs, dependant on where on the race route they turned out.
    but i say PuigM is the toughest of the two mentioned.
  • feelgoodlost
    feelgoodlost Posts: 337
    bernithebiker wrote:
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Fill up bidons at the top, less weight to carry on Sa Colabra

    Although no cafe at top of Puig Major, just the drop to the viaduct cafe.

    Isn't there a cafe on the 270' bend (very near the top)?

    Have to say, I've never stopped there, but I'm sure I've seen people drinking outside it!

    Yep, there is. Apparently one of the lads from our group stopped there on his way up and was given some fresh oranges along with his can of coke :D

    Wouldn't advise doing Sa Calobra and Puig Major in the same day, personally - not unless you've got time restrictions which don't allow you to come back on a different day. Just go back another day and instead of heading up Coll Des Reis, head to your left and out towards Soller - then back up Puig Major.
    https://www.strava.com/athletes/442763
  • stueys
    stueys Posts: 1,332
    Was there recently, one of my favourite climbs. I've not seen the cafe at the top of the bend open but I tend to hit Sa Calobra early (which I would recommend unless you fancy sharing the narrow roads with coaches, badly driven tourist cars, etc, etc...). My preferred approach is to leave Pollenca at about 7, you'll be at the base of Sa Calobra for 8:30-8:45ish comfortably that way, ahead of the bulk of the tourist traffic.

    There are cafes at the bottom where you can stop for a coffee, etc. They tend to open at 9am. Then I would only take one bottle up the climb to help you along. I don't stop until the cafe by the viaduct where the road branches for Sa Colobra or continues to Soller (if you right). The cafe there has a good range plus lots of tables in the shade. Plus its a straight descent from the top of Sa Calobra so you get a cool down post the climb whilst moving.

    The descent is brilliant but be careful, I had three mountain goat things leap out on me which made for an 'interesting' few seconds I could have done without.

    Re climbing in the big ring, I guess you could but (i) it would be slow, (ii) it wouldn't be great for your knees and (iii) why the hell would you? I hit 37 mins on the ascent, I left the big ring well along.

    Puig is another good climb but it's trumped by Sa Calobra IMHO. It's a bit more closed in without the views. Orient is also a nice climb but I think Sa Calobra trumps them all. A long day I've done once has been to go around the side of the mountains from Pollenca, hitting Orient enroute then heading up to Sa Calobra via soller and Puig. Then back down to Pollenca. It's a good day and there are a lot of good, cycling cafes to stop at to refuel.

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