improve VO2Max

npr50
npr50 Posts: 23
edited June 2015 in Training, fitness and health
Hello All,

I will appreciate your advice on that:

According to a study I was shown, when one wants to improve VO2Max, sets of intervals in which one goes above 90% of his HRMax is the better way, while an interpretation suggests that the key thing is the total time one manages to stay at such above-90%-of-HRMax.

I personally, when doing such intervals, say of 2 minutes duration each, get above my 90% in the second minute, so for example, if I'd do a set of 6 of them, I'd 'collect' 6 minutes above 90% HRmax.
While - - - in some 2 hours rides, the aggregated time above 90% HRMax is 15-20 minutes, which in no way I can reach by intervals.

I wonder what is better / more effective for improving VO2Max - those intervals ? or such a ride ? (any additional value to short all-out intervals ? )

Thanks a lot ! :)

Comments

  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    Is there any particular reason for wanting to improve this particular metric?
    For training top end nowt beats racing or a fast chaingang.
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  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    npr50 wrote:

    According to a study I was shown, when one wants to improve VO2Max, sets of intervals in which one goes above 90% of his HRMax is the better way,

    Can you link this study?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • diy
    diy Posts: 6,473
    Its not just about how you train:
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/09/fasted ... ivity.html

    I definitely improved my Vo2Max on both 20' and 40' tests as a result of fasting.
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  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    You'd expect to spend 15-20minutes above 90% max HR on a 2hr ride?
    Do you do lots of intervals on 2hr rides? I'd expect to spend maybe 2mins above 90% on a long ride and that would only be if it was with friends and we did a few sprints.
  • supermurph09
    supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    Ai_1 wrote:
    You'd expect to spend 15-20minutes above 90% max HR on a 2hr ride?
    Do you do lots of intervals on 2hr rides? I'd expect to spend maybe 2mins above 90% on a long ride and that would only be if it was with friends and we did a few sprints.

    2 mins?? You're wasting that Canyon!! :D
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  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Supermurph09 wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    You'd expect to spend 15-20minutes above 90% max HR on a 2hr ride?
    Do you do lots of intervals on 2hr rides? I'd expect to spend maybe 2mins above 90% on a long ride and that would only be if it was with friends and we did a few sprints.

    2 mins?? You're wasting that Canyon!! :D
    Well I did a sportive on it at the weekend and averaged 81% mHR for a little under 5 hrs. Is that okay? ;)

    However I did just re-calculate what 90% HR was and actually I was thinking more like 95% in my comment above. I would often hit 90% on a 2hr ride. I don't think I'd do 15-20mins but I would reach that on some hills and when pushing on.
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    What's important is the intensity at which the intervals are done. HR is just one way to measure that and for short intervals its a pretty poor measure as its a lagging indicator. Assuming the first minute of your two minute interval was done at the same perceived exertion as the second then despite what your HR is telling you you've done 2 mins in the zone. Whether that workout is effective or not is a different issue.

    Above 90% max HR is pretty difficult to get to and you must be working pretty hard on your long rides to get 20 mins above 90%. I'm more inclinded to think that you have underestimated your maximum HR as its a difficult and very unpleasant thing to measure accurately hence most people tend to underestimate. Better to use lactate threshold or FTP to base your training zones on
  • supermurph09
    supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    Ai_1 wrote:
    Supermurph09 wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    You'd expect to spend 15-20minutes above 90% max HR on a 2hr ride?
    Do you do lots of intervals on 2hr rides? I'd expect to spend maybe 2mins above 90% on a long ride and that would only be if it was with friends and we did a few sprints.

    2 mins?? You're wasting that Canyon!! :D
    Well I did a sportive on it at the weekend and averaged 81% mHR for a little under 5 hrs. Is that okay? ;)

    However I did just re-calculate what 90% HR was and actually I was thinking more like 95% in my comment above. I would often hit 90% on a 2hr ride. I don't think I'd do 15-20mins but I would reach that on some hills and when pushing on.

    Acceptable! 8)
    Trainer Road Blog: https://hitthesweetspot.home.blog/

    Cycling blog: https://harderfasterlonger.wordpress.com/

    Blog: https://supermurphtt2015.wordpress.com/

    TCTP: https://supermurph.wordpress.com/
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    twotyred wrote:
    What's important is the intensity at which the intervals are done. HR is just one way to measure that and for short intervals its a pretty poor measure as its a lagging indicator. Assuming the first minute of your two minute interval was done at the same perceived exertion as the second then despite what your HR is telling you you've done 2 mins in the zone. Whether that workout is effective or not is a different issue.

    Above 90% max HR is pretty difficult to get to and you must be working pretty hard on your long rides to get 20 mins above 90%. I'm more inclinded to think that you have underestimated your maximum HR as its a difficult and very unpleasant thing to measure accurately hence most people tend to underestimate. Better to use lactate threshold or FTP to base your training zones on
    Yeah, I've got a figure I work to but I can't be sure it's exactly accurate and don't feel the need to check!
    It suffices for me. I'm a little dubious of the highly specific training protocols bandied about. Based on my relatively sparse knowledge of physiology and sports science it seems to me that the human body is generally not as On/Off and Right/Wrong as many people seem to think. Also, I'm just a casual athlete. Neither my livelyhood nor my life's ambition demands that I perform at the highest possible level and I'm pretty sure a less specific routine is better for general health anyway!
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    If you want to get stronger at the top end.. just get on as suggested chaingangs with some stronger than you riders. At this time of the year, simples.
    Heart rate zones are really so simplistic and vo2 max interval is damned hard work, very hard work... genuinely a one hour crit balls out and you may get 20% of that in that 'zone' however, the critical mass is the other 80% is usually over threshold. Try and do that in 'training' mode.
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    npr50 wrote:
    I wonder what is better / more effective for improving VO2Max...
    Lots of training at VO2Max.
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    JGSI wrote:
    vo2 max interval is damned hard work, very hard work...

    Never truer words been said
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    Tom Dean wrote:
    npr50 wrote:
    I wonder what is better / more effective for improving VO2Max...
    Lots of training at VO2Max.
    VO2max can be improved from a wide range of training, like many discussions of training the adage "it depends" applies.

    And when doing lots of training at VO2max - one does need to be careful - dosage and duration of such focussed VO2 work matters - lest it sends you backwards.
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • Tom Dean
    Tom Dean Posts: 1,723
    My comment was slightly facetious. I agree with the above
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    I'm just a casual athlete. Neither my livelyhood nor my life's ambition demands that I perform at the highest possible level and I'm pretty sure a less specific routine is better for general health anyway!

    Then why are you concerned with how many minutes you are spending at VO2 max?
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    twotyred wrote:
    I'm just a casual athlete. Neither my livelyhood nor my life's ambition demands that I perform at the highest possible level and I'm pretty sure a less specific routine is better for general health anyway!

    Then why are you concerned with how many minutes you are spending at VO2 max?
    Did I say I was "concerned"?
    Do you ignore everything that is not part of your livelyhood or life's ambition?
    Are you just being annoying and argumentative?
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    Ai_1 wrote:
    twotyred wrote:
    I'm just a casual athlete. Neither my livelyhood nor my life's ambition demands that I perform at the highest possible level and I'm pretty sure a less specific routine is better for general health anyway!

    Then why are you concerned with how many minutes you are spending at VO2 max?
    Did I say I was "concerned"?
    Do you ignore everything that is not part of your livelyhood or life's ambition?
    Are you just being annoying and argumentative?

    The OP asked what is better / more effective for improving VO2Max.

    Looks like you are deliberately disrupting another thread with your nonsense :)
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    i always understood that slightly longer intervals, such as 5 x 4 or 4 x 6 are more effective than 2min intervals?
    or use shorter intervals but with less rest and that you only do these sort of things when well trained.

    easy to over do it too, i guess it depends on what your aims are.
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    Looks like you are deliberately disrupting another thread with your nonsense

    :? examples please and if you can't provide any then I suggest you wind your neck in a bit

    If the OP was not "concerned" why is he asking about differences in time spent above 90MHR? However I'm prepared to concede that maybe "curious" would have been a better word
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    twotyred wrote:
    Looks like you are deliberately disrupting another thread with your nonsense

    :? examples please and if you can't provide any then I suggest you wind your neck in a bit

    If the OP was not "concerned" why is he asking about differences in time spent above 90MHR? However I'm prepared to concede that maybe "curious" would have been a better word

    Not you, AL_1
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    twotyred wrote:
    Looks like you are deliberately disrupting another thread with your nonsense

    :? examples please and if you can't provide any then I suggest you wind your neck in a bit

    If the OP was not "concerned" why is he asking about differences in time spent above 90MHR? However I'm prepared to concede that maybe "curious" would have been a better word

    Not you, AL_1
    Indeed. Do I routinely "disrupt" threads?
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    these last few play ground comments are why few serious coaches bother commenting anymore.

    to the OP ask on WW, you ll get an answer.
  • twotyred
    twotyred Posts: 822
    Sorry Sloppy.

    AL-1 jumped in and I thought he was the OP. I see what you mean.
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    mamba80 wrote:
    these last few play ground comments are why few serious coaches bother commenting anymore.

    to the OP ask on WW, you ll get an answer.

    The OP couldn't be bothered to reply to questions asked so the thread goes nowhere, as Alex said:
    Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
    VO2max can be improved from a wide range of training, like many discussions of training the adage "it depends" applies.

    And when doing lots of training at VO2max - one does need to be careful - dosage and duration of such focussed VO2 work matters - lest it sends you backwards.

    Feel free to chip in though :)
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • slowmart
    slowmart Posts: 4,516
    mamba80 wrote:
    these last few play ground comments are why few serious coaches bother commenting anymore.

    to the OP ask on WW, you ll get an answer.



    whats WW?
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Slowmart wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    these last few play ground comments are why few serious coaches bother commenting anymore.

    to the OP ask on WW, you ll get an answer.



    whats WW?

    Weight Weenies? Mad as a box of frogs that lot. Seen bikes made out of nearly nothing at all in the pursuit of lightness..

    Other WW's are available. Weightwatchers, Wolverhampton Wanderers etc etc...

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