is Porte a GT man?

ugo.santalucia

On every single occasion he has shown he doesn't have 3 weeks in his legs... got the feeling he's a one week pony... Trentino, Romandie, Dauphine' maybe Tirreno-Adriatico. Don't think he'll ever win a GT.

He went to the Giro in top form and he was always with the best during the first week... then he faded and eventually gave up on the TT that could have brought him back in contention.

It's not just mental, I think it's physical

thegibdog

So, Porte has abandoned after being advised not to continue by his medical team. Where does this race leave him in terms of GT riding - will he lead a team again? He is talking about making the team for the Tour rather than looking towards the GC in the Vuelta. Does he have the ability and killer instinct to go for the GC over three weeks?

Meanwhile Contador has pretty much got the race in the bag - what do people think his chances are of doing the double - or even treble?

It's a shame that Aru doesn't look like he can challenge him over the last week - I think the parcours of the Giro this year has been really good and it would've been great to see a good GC battle over the next few stages. Is Aru still suffering from his stomach problems or is he simply not as good as people thought?

Let's keep this civil - please leave baiting / taunting / doping speculation at the door...

thegibdog

Oops, just created another thread (Rest Day Spoilers!) including this topic, maybe combine the two?

ugo.santalucia

I'd love to, but I am no longer a moderator... we need to wait for Rick

ugo.santalucia

Re Porte... I think he is one of those riders who cannot keep the form for three weeks

Re Aru: I think he is doing very well... if you take away the TT, which is not his thing, he would be in pink. He will not drop Contador, but I don't think anyone can drop Contador... maybe Quintana on a very good day

Omar Little

Bit harsh on Aru, he is roughly where you'd expect him to be.

Hard to judge Contadors chances on the double because of the standard of the competition being lower than what he'll be up against at the Tour. Just hope that Contador, Quintana, Nibali and Froome are all fit and stay upright so we can have a proper battle.

thegibdog

My comment re Aru was more around Landa looking stronger than him in the mountains. But yeah, maybe it was expecting too much of him to be able to drop Contador!

bobmcstuff

Is there any more detail on why Porte has been advised not to continue? Is it related to the knee injury or something else?

thegibdog

bobmcstuff wrote:

Is there any more detail on why Porte has been advised not to continue? Is it related to the knee injury or something else?

Yeah, the knee/hip injury he sustained on Friday:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/richie- ... ro-ditalia

Pross

I'm inclined to think he isn't after this. It's hard to know what damage the crash did physically but it certainly finished him mentally and that is probably the determining factor over a 3 week race. He's nearly 30 now and has been given two decent chances at Sky who now have to give Konig, Henao and possibly Nieve an opportunity.

Pross

Plus the fact they could get a refund on the 3rd week rental on the motor home that they've decided he hasn't earned

Crozza

He looked pretty good in the third week in 2013, albeit riding in a supporting role

ugo.santalucia

Crozza wrote:

He looked pretty good in the third week in 2013, albeit riding in a supporting role

easy... you can rest half of the time

bigcgilmour

I don't think so, never have... Yet still talked myself into including him in my fantasy team, weight loss good form etc. he doesn't quite have it IMO, brilliant support rider but always has some really bad days.
I think Konig deserves a chance though, has some good results can TT can climb who knows with proper support what he could do.

gsk82

it's his first gt as leader at sky and he had the joke time penalty then the crash. it's too early to write him off given the number of wins he's had this season. you just have to look at the number of grand tours nibali has won without beating anyone any good to see it's still possible.

i do think moving to green edge next year will be a big mistake if he does it though.

dolan_driver

It could be that we will never get the answer to the question posed. He has been robbed of the opportunity to show his ability in this Giro thanks to that crash last Friday. Maybe this will be his last chance to tackle a GT as the nominated leader. Konig is going well and if he hauls himself up to third on GC, he could be SKY's No.2 from now on. You have to have some sympathy for Porte, though. He might never realise his full potential.

DD.

DeVlaeminck

I think it's possible he can still be a GC man for the GTs because at his best he can time trial and climb well enough but I don't think he would be a favourite for any grand tour any time soon.

I'd like to see him at a smaller team where he can fly under the radar a little bit maybe with a bit less pressure on him than there is at Sky. I mean stuff like having your own motor home - yes on one level it may be nice but on another the team are doing that with with the expectation that you deliver the results. Alternatively maybe the more relaxed atmosphere at Orica may be what he needs.

milton50

My instinct is that he isn't suited to a Grand Tour and will likely never win one.

That said, this Giro tells you basically nothing about his future GT prospects. He was able to match everything Contador and Aru did until he had a puncture, got a 2 minute time penalty, injured his leg/hip and then went home.

mm1

No idea, apparently he's pretty banged up so I'm surprised that he even started the TT or yesterday. Before the time penalty and crash, although he was managing to stay with Contador and Aru, he always looked a bit sluggish in responding and closing down gaps. There's plenty of diesels who have won GTs, but I reckon that he's never going to be quite good enough.

ocdupalais

Perhaps the question should be "Is Porte a GT GC rider"?
He can clearly finish the bloody things when doesn't suffer the worst of luck.
In 2010 Giro he won the white jersey and finished 7th overall (with the "sparkling" trio of Vinokourov, Scarponi and Basso amongst those above him)...
So, if he can finish GTs and can beat some of the World's best in shorter stage races, then I'd say that's proof enough of his physiology: the rest is down to his mental approach and having the right team around him.

If he were to be selfish, he should miss the Tour and get himself back on track to be Sky team leader for the Vuelta (then discuss his contract); although if Froome has a duff Tour, then he'll want to salvage his season with the Vuelta, too...

ugo.santalucia

OCDuPalais wrote:

In 2010 Giro he won the white jersey and finished 7th overall (with the "sparkling" trio of Vinokourov, Scarponi and Basso amongst those above him)...

You are pushing your luck here, without knowing much of the Giro 2010.
When Basso returned in 2009, he was trained by Aldo Sassi, same as Cadel... he made a commitment to the fans and all his blood tests and training sessions with SRM cranks were available to download on his website. His numbers (including hemoglobin etc... ) were as normal as mine. Giro 2010 and Tour 2011 and 2012 are the cleanest GT I can remember

smithy21

Can he be a GT man and finish in the top 3 or 5 in a GT. Yes, I think he could do that. I certainly wouldn't write him off because he is 30.

Can he win one. Doubtful if he is going onto have to beat one or more of Contador, Quintana, Niabli or Froome (if in future they are on different teams).

Paul 8v

Hard to say. He's definitely good in the one week races but this particular grand tour he's had a crash and a stupid penalty which must have completely demoralised him. It wasn't a good TT from the national TT champion of a place that has some good time trialists.

frenchfighter

ugo.santalucia wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

In 2010 Giro he won the white jersey and finished 7th overall (with the "sparkling" trio of Vinokourov, Scarponi and Basso amongst those above him)...

You are pushing your luck here, without knowing much of the Giro 2010.
When Basso returned in 2009, he was trained by Aldo Sassi, same as Cadel... he made a commitment to the fans and all his blood tests and training sessions with SRM cranks were available to download on his website. His numbers (including hemoglobin etc... ) were as normal as mine. Giro 2010 and Tour 2011 and 2012 are the cleanest GT I can remember

Well it is even more of a bad comparison as the only reason he was 7th was because he was involved in the break that gained almost 13 mins. He then lost that and some to Basso et al. A very good ride and I did enjoy watching him, but not evidence enough.

ozzzyosborn206

think his best result would come of a supporting role but never loosing too much time, so much less pressure, media attention etc comes with being a supporting role making it easier to relax and switch off once stage is over

gaffer_slow

i would like to see how he does as the Leader of a smaller team. OGE?

Sky expectations + bad luck =

ocdupalais

ugo.santalucia wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

In 2010 Giro he won the white jersey and finished 7th overall (with the "sparkling" trio of Vinokourov, Scarponi and Basso amongst those above him)...

You are pushing your luck here, without knowing much of the Giro 2010.
When Basso returned in 2009, he was trained by Aldo Sassi, same as Cadel... he made a commitment to the fans and all his blood tests and training sessions with SRM cranks were available to download on his website. His numbers (including hemoglobin etc... ) were as normal as mine. Giro 2010 and Tour 2011 and 2012 are the cleanest GT I can remember

Who's pushing their luck? It's clearly bloody daft to question his ability to finish a GT when he's done so 7 of the 8 times he's entered one.

ocdupalais

frenchfighter wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

OCDuPalais wrote:

In 2010 Giro he won the white jersey and finished 7th overall (with the "sparkling" trio of Vinokourov, Scarponi and Basso amongst those above him)...

You are pushing your luck here, without knowing much of the Giro 2010.
When Basso returned in 2009, he was trained by Aldo Sassi, same as Cadel... he made a commitment to the fans and all his blood tests and training sessions with SRM cranks were available to download on his website. His numbers (including hemoglobin etc... ) were as normal as mine. Giro 2010 and Tour 2011 and 2012 are the cleanest GT I can remember

Well it is even more of a bad comparison as the only reason he was 7th was because he was involved in the break that gained almost 13 mins. He then lost that and some to Basso et al. A very good ride and I did enjoy watching him, but not evidence enough.

Comparison with what. and not evidence enough of what?

norvernrob

Well if he is, or isn't, a GT man, this one hasn't told us anything really. He seemed pretty comfortable staying with Contador and Aru the first week, and it looked as though the game plan was to get to the TT with very little disadvantage over those two, do well in that then see what the last week brought. Him and Sky seemed to be riding pretty intelligently and not hammering it on the front all day.

It wasn't his fault he punctured then crashed, he did seem slow to get back on the bike after the crash and I thought he mentally may have gone right there, but if he was injured then that explains it.

ugo.santalucia

OCDuPalais wrote:

Who's pushing their luck? It's clearly bloody daft to question his ability to finish a GT when he's done so 7 of the 8 times he's entered one.

The question is not whether he can finish one, but whether he can one day win one of the three GT... Or in other words, can he race 20-21 stages at 100% of his potential? I don't think so and he does need that 100%, as he is not the best out there... Contador and Quintana can win at 90% or even less, Porte can't

jimmythecuckoo

I have never seen him as a GT winner, and there are a few reasons why.

Physically he seems too fragile and prone to injury and illness.

Secondly he has a weakness mentally which seems to be exposed by the real top level of GT contenders.

I do wonder how many of his crashes are back luck as opposed to being badly positioned but these things do seem to happen to him too often to just be coincidence.