Tyres 23 v 25mm Pros & Cons
Comments
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Yep, apparently we need to provide our credentials or mfin isn't interested. And I value his opinion highlybernithebiker wrote:Er, should I mention I have a degree in mechanical engineering too?!
But only a 2:2 and I never actually used it for anything (apart from cycling forums....!)0 -
stevie63 wrote:
The following was taken from an RCUK article on wider tyres:bernithebiker wrote:(By the way, the reason pros use 25's on Paris-Roubaix is for the better impact absorption from the paves, resulting in better control and less fatigue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I'm aware, the peloton has not made a wholesale move over to 25's for normal racing).We also got in touch with Lars Teutenberg who acts as technical consultant to Orica-GreenEDGE and IAM Cycling on behalf of Scott Racing, who supply both WorldTour teams with bikes. We wanted to start by confirming that pro teams were willingly using 25mm tyres, just like the rest of us, to further their riding comfort and handling.
This was clearly the case in direct rider feedback from both the Orica-GreenEDGE and IAM teams, with Teutenberg at pains to emphasise that 25mm is now the width of choice on both squads’ Shimano Dura-Ace C50 wheelsets.
However it would seem that the reason is still for comfort and handling not for extra free speed.
Having watched a few GCN videos from this years giro D'Italia, it would appear teams cannondale-garmin, sky, lotto-soudal and giant alpecin are all also using 25c tyres
Maybe all these pro teams have got it wrong
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Ai_1 wrote:
Yep, apparently we need to provide our credentials or mfin isn't interested. And I value his opinion highlybernithebiker wrote:Er, should I mention I have a degree in mechanical engineering too?!
But only a 2:2 and I never actually used it for anything (apart from cycling forums....!)
Christ no, I didn't mean to infer anyone needs credentials at all, although a fair few people could do with going on a course on how to not be humourless, boring and overly serious!
Like I said, if people wanna ride 25mm, just ride them.0 -
23, 25 28 is all irrelevant. It's the radius of the cross section when on your rim that is going to provide any benefit.
Best put 28's on and wait until the radial tyres arrive, with some new wheel size to allow for the lower profile.
Don't worry, they wont come out until everyone has bought their new disc wheels.0 -
Anyone know what size tyres Wiggo used for his hour record?0
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Anyone know what size tyres Wiggo used for his hour record?
28cROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
Anyone know what size tyres Wiggo used for his hour record?
28c
What is more concerning is him using a 58-14t setup when the BikeRadar standard is a 50x34!I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
What about 28c? Are they better or worse than 25c?Never be tempted to race against a Barclays Cycle Hire bike. If you do, there are only two outcomes. Of these, by far the better is that you now have the scalp of a Boris Bike.0
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[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19622731#p19622731]The Hundredth Idiot[/url] wrote:What about 28c? Are they better or worse than 25c?
Friend of mine commutes on 28c and given that he does it at 20-22mph average I guess they can't be bad. 25c is often given as a good size just because many bikes won't take anything bigger.
Does 28mm start to tip the balance too far towards the tyres being too heavy and introduce aero issues? I have no idea!0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19622731#p19622731]The Hundredth Idiot[/url] wrote:What about 28c? Are they better or worse than 25c?
Seems the bigger the tyre the more aero it is and less rolling resistance, so personally I'm thinking 32's....0 -
Meanwhile I have been out training and for anyone on this forum....thats what will make you faster instead of debating which tyre is better.Scott Addict 2011
Giant TCR 20120 -
Meanwhile I have been out training and for anyone on this forum....thats what will make you faster instead of debating which tyre is better.
Can't one do both?0 -
Meanwhile I have been out training and for anyone on this forum....thats what will make you faster instead of debating which tyre is better.
Can't one do both?
I stayed in today and trained, does that count?I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
I've gone for 25mm tyres this year, and mine come up very wide at 27.5mm and I find they're great for club rides and general riding as the cornering grip is a bit better and you can take them down the occasional gravel roads/ bridle paths without too much drama- which is good when your Garmin course isn't quite what you expect or staying at a hostel with a long gravel drive.
However, I would quite happily still ride on a decent pair of 23c tyres all year round- it's not all that much of a difference if I'm honest, although I'll probably stick with 25C for my winter tyres now.
I will always buy racing/ nice day tyres in 23C though- I'd rather not have the extra weight when buying nice tyres and want to feel a difference between my racing and everyday wheels.0 -
saying width your tyre comes up at without stating the internal rim width and the make and model of tyre is pointless. i can make a 25mm GP4000s come up at 25mm, 26mm, 27mm or even 28mm by mounting it on ever wider rims.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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mfin wrote:As for all this psuedo science, why not just leave it to scientists
I'm a Fellow of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers and manage a team of 90 scientists and engineers - does that count?
As for handling, you don't need to take a tyre to its limits to appreciate the handling characteristics of a tyre, however manly and butch you think you are.
Do women scientists cry when criticised? Do they flirt with male scientists?
I remember when Hutchinson Kevlar 700/18c were all the rage.0 -
If you want to go fast then narrow is the way to go. The increase in CdA of most wider tyres is not worth the reduction in Crr (especially true with tubs. There's a reason I have 20mm tubs on my 28mm wheel...English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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If you want to go fast then narrow is the way to go. The increase in CdA of most wider tyres is not worth the reduction in Crr (especially true with tubs. There's a reason I have 20mm tubs on my 28mm wheel...
Feel free to back this up with some numbers
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH0 -
If you want to go fast then narrow is the way to go. The increase in CdA of most wider tyres is not worth the reduction in Crr (especially true with tubs. There's a reason I have 20mm tubs on my 28mm wheel...
Feel free to back this up with some numbers
for the bigger is better brigade, why is it that the 2 most comfy clinchers (tubs tend to be even better) are the 2 that on a std 13mm int rim come up the narrowest/least volume? pro4 comps and fortezza tricomps? both are 23mm and measure up as 23mm.
I compare them with 4000s, vitt corsa cx and pro4 sc, all of these tyres measure up as 25mm or higher, the vitt is the biggest, i run the same psi pretty much all the time.
As for pro's using 25mm tubs, well, they are being given wider rims so need a wider tub for security and a 25mm tub will come up as a true 25mm not even bigger which is what will happen with a clincher.
the manufactureres are the ones telling us bigger is better and we all need bigger wheels and larger tyres, and so called independent tests are done on steel drums, so outside of a velodrome, are meaningless and 21/23 rule on a wooden track :shock:0 -
If you want to go fast then narrow is the way to go. The increase in CdA of most wider tyres is not worth the reduction in Crr (especially true with tubs. There's a reason I have 20mm tubs on my 28mm wheel...
Feel free to back this up with some numbers
You mean like you didn't in your "25's" tests.I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
If you want to go fast then narrow is the way to go. The increase in CdA of most wider tyres is not worth the reduction in Crr (especially true with tubs. There's a reason I have 20mm tubs on my 28mm wheel...
Feel free to back this up with some numbers
You mean besides the fact that Zipp, Reynolds and Enve (as well as a certain Specialized employee responsible for the Win Tunnel) back me up on this? Sure.
http://www.aeroweenie.com/assets/img/data/zippattack.png
http://www.aeroweenie.com/assets/img/data/bontrager-tire.jpgEnglish Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
...and so called independent tests are done on steel drums, so outside of a velodrome, are meaningless and 21/23 rule on a wooden track :shock:
Actualy, tests in a velodrome on a wooden track would be meaningless to 99% of the people on this forum.0 -
...and so called independent tests are done on steel drums, so outside of a velodrome, are meaningless and 21/23 rule on a wooden track :shock:
Actualy, tests in a velodrome on a wooden track would be meaningless to 99% of the people on this forum.
For Crr yes, for CdA no.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
...and so called independent tests are done on steel drums, so outside of a velodrome, are meaningless and 21/23 rule on a wooden track :shock:
Actualy, tests in a velodrome on a wooden track would be meaningless to 99% of the people on this forum.
For Crr yes, for CdA no.
And deflection on normal road surfaces which arent (in the UK at least) smooth.
At what speed does CdA become significant? And how much does tyre width affect this in comparison to the effects of rider size & position?0 -
CdA is significant for anyone who races and vital for testers. Obviously position is where you can make the largest CdA reduction, but this is a sport of marginal gains and tyre width is certainly one area where you can shave a watt or two.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0
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That looks like some real evidence - on the Bontrager one* we have a difference in drag force of about 50g (interestingly the difference doesn't seem to vary much with speed: but then isn't aerodynamic drag supposed to be proportional to the square of speed? It certainly isn't on that graph).
What would be useful for the curious yet non-obsessives among us is to see how that 50g contributes to the total - what is the actual figure for Crr? What about the total drag for the entire bike and rider? I can see how a 50g reduction would be important for TTists, just would be interested to see what proportion of the total it would be for me pootling along at 15-25 in my quite un-aero position on my quite un-aero bike.
*an explanation of what on earth the Zipp one is saying would be appreciated though. What exactly is that on the vertical axis that measures 200 at 0? And is that speed on the horizontal? Any 11yo in my class would lose a lot of marks for that graph...0 -
The Zipp graph is yaw on the X and drag on the Y. Keep in mind both these graphs are for clinchers with the Zipp graph on a wide rim and the other on a narrow rim (and also includes Crr).
English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
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Zero aero data, so not very useful for myself.
Different test protocols yield different results, but top tubs are on par for Crr with top clinchers using latex tubes (Conti and VF really) even with 3-4mm difference in width. http://www.biketechreview.com/tires_old/images/AFM_tire_testing_rev9.pdf
Of course this is from a tester's perspective. For general cycling, ride whatever makes you happy.English Cycles V3 | Cervelo P5 | Cervelo T4 | Trek Domane Koppenberg0 -
What were they actually testing? The comment about wider tyres on narrower rims being a disaster from an aerodynamic point of view seems odd.I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0
