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Joke of a sport

AshbeckAshbeck Posts: 235
edited May 2015 in Pro race
What an inconsistent joke of a sport pro cycling is.

So Richie Porte gets fined, given a 2 minute penalty for help by another team and rider.

Rigoberto Uran crashes and spends 5 minutes catching the peloton riding behind a car. The main thing being, it was ok because it was ANOTHER TEAMS CAR and not his own. FFS!!?

Whats the f'kin difference? Both riders had help from another team, both riders get an advatage back to the peloton.

And the UCI wonder why they struggle to capture new audiences and why most people looking at the sport for the first time just switch off.

What a joke.
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  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 7,790
    I think most people accept that what Porte did didn't deserve a 2 minute penalty but you get the odd decision like that in all sports. There probably is a need for a rule against riders helping riders from other teams but whether it needed to be applied in this case and whether the penalty needs to be fixed at 2 minutes is what needs to be looked at. I wouldn't say it makes it a joke of a sport though.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    The problem is that there are a lot of conventions and unwritten rules in cycling, or at least that's my understanding, which mean that it's sometimes difficult for casual spectators to understand which rules are real, which are just conventions and which are defined but routinely overlooked.
    For example people who have never watched cycling always wonder why someone who crashes or punctures is allowed "cheat" to catch back up or why riders don't attack when such an opportunity arises. Alliances are formed and broken during races and riders often share food or drink with riders from other teams. There is a bit of a lack of clarity I think. It may be clear in the rule book, but it's often unclear to someone who tunes in on TV.
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    I wouldn't say it makes it a joke of a sport though.
    I do think it has become a "Joke Sport" and at times I'm embarrassed to say it is my Number 1 Sport.

    Sport you say as you crave for more media attention which brings more "MONEY" and there by is the curse of the modern day Sport.
    Sportsmanship in the peloton went out the window with this Porte incident as the peloton did nothing to rectify a stupid bureaucratic decision when we know that "minor" rules have a Grey area for commonsense to prevail.
    As a former long serving official I have occasionally bent the rules for the sake of commonsense.
    No the riders are too greedy (or scared) these days to overrule their Sponsor wishes and no longer is there a "Le Patron" strong enough to lead.
    After the Texan shyte where we hoped our sport would recover, we still have this bumbling assortment of mistakes that cannot be explained to the General Public. (or to ourselves)
    It remains a Joke Sport. :cry:
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • harry-sharry-s Posts: 283
    I'm not sure about the 'joke sport' interpretation.

    I think it's more a case of being part of the definition of sport. Things happen quickly, humans are involved (and often have to make important win or lose decisions on the spot) and there's a passion involved from participants and spectators alike. The last minute penalty that was or wasn't awarded, the dodgy offside, the illegal overtaking manoeuvre, the ball that didn't cross the line. To me, that's all part of sport, you know, the unpredictability, disappointment, futility, hopelessness and occasional moment of triumph, - and controversy belongs in the mix.
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    Harry-S wrote:
    I'm not sure about the 'joke sport' interpretation.

    I think it's more a case of being part of the definition of sport. Things happen quickly, humans are involved (and often have to make important win or lose decisions on the spot) and there's a passion involved from participants and spectators alike. The last minute penalty that was or wasn't awarded, the dodgy offside, the illegal overtaking manoeuvre, the ball that didn't cross the line. To me, that's all part of sport, you know, the unpredictability, disappointment, futility, hopelessness and occasional moment of triumph, - and controversy belongs in the mix.
    Agreed that is now the definition of modern day sport.
    I noticed you couldn't mention "Sportsmanship" in our Modern day sports and which was applied by 2 countrymen in the True sense of the Word in Stage 11.

    Money also rules the Olympics which is another Joke. (but not given to competitors except for expenses)
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • gsk82gsk82 Posts: 3,143
    Harry-S wrote:
    The last minute penalty that was or wasn't awarded, the dodgy offside, the illegal overtaking manoeuvre, the ball that didn't cross the line.

    Apart from possibly the illegal overtake which can be retrospectively punished, the others all require split second decisions. In the Porte case a panel has actually sat down after the event and decided to penalise him.

    It will take a hell of a lot to convince me that the prescence of an Italian near the top of the leaderboard wasn't the deciding factor in this decision. The organiser appears more than happy with the decision.
    "Unfortunately these days a lot of people don’t understand the real quality of a bike" Ernesto Colnago
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,879
    gsk82 wrote:
    It will take a hell of a lot to convince me that the prescence of an Italian near the top of the leaderboard wasn't the deciding factor in this decision. The organiser appears more than happy with the decision.
    I'm half expecting Contador's adjusted time trial position to be deemed illegal as he climbs into the start house on Saturday.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 19,207
    RichN95 wrote:
    gsk82 wrote:
    It will take a hell of a lot to convince me that the prescence of an Italian near the top of the leaderboard wasn't the deciding factor in this decision. The organiser appears more than happy with the decision.
    I'm half expecting Contador's adjusted time trial position to be deemed illegal as he climbs into the start house on Saturday.

    The same thought had crossed my mind.
    The sport isn't a joke, but it is a breeding ground for cynicism.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,856
    I wouldn't label the sport a joke but it was a ridiculous decision. The punishment was way too severe for the transgression and I very much doubt the same decision would have been reached if Aru had been the rider in question.
  • There must be some irony in Porte's penalty (possible loss of GT podium) for receiving outside assistance actually being greater than Hincapie's penalty for a career built on EPO (6 months out of season ban; no loss of previous wins/prizes etc.)

    That said, Sky deserve some "karmic komeuppance" having not picked Wiggo for the Tour last year. It's tough luck on Porte, with whom I have no issue, but Sky collectively have been deserving of being dumped on from a great height for some time!
  • carbonclemcarbonclem Posts: 1,086
    Shocking decision but the wider you take it the worse it is. 2 minutes for Porte on top of the time lost on the road pretty much kills his win or podium chances , he may make it back in the TT, but that's him back in the chase not a step ahead. No win/podium affects his season now, affects his contract renegotiations, and the track
    of his ongoing career. Sky need another GT win to justify the sponsorship, and Porte not delivering will make Rupert roll his eyes at James and who knows what they want to see to commit further?

    Saying Tram Sky need a karma adjustment? The only team with a top three/four rider at that point WITHOUT a proven doping present or past need that adjustment? Really?

    I think we'll see Portes Giro take the trajectory of Wiggos in '13 now. Clutching at straws as they slip away. Well done to the commissares.
    2020/2021 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • above_the_cowsabove_the_cows Posts: 11,318
    CarbonClem wrote:
    win/podium affects his season now, affects his contract renegotiations, and the track
    of his ongoing career.

    I would hope that Sky would not use this event as a reason to negotiate in bad faith.

    There's losing on the road and then there's losing on a whim, or as its sometimes known in insurance, an act of god.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • lostboysaintlostboysaint Posts: 4,250
    deejay wrote:

    Money also rules the Olympics which is another Joke. (but not given to competitors except for expenses)

    Has this post escaped from the early 80s? The Olympics has allowed professional sportsmen and women since 1992 (the decision was taken earlier!).
    Trail fun - Transition Bandit
    Road - Wilier Izoard Centaur/Cube Agree C62 Disc
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  • carbonclemcarbonclem Posts: 1,086
    CarbonClem wrote:
    win/podium affects his season now, affects his contract renegotiations, and the track
    of his ongoing career.

    I would hope that Sky would not use this event as a reason to negotiate in bad faith.

    There's losing on the road and then there's losing on a whim, or as its sometimes known in insurance, an act of god.

    I kind of assumed he'd be off at renewal? But, if he doesn't have the big GT result then other interest is muted, which affects any bargaining power he has. I know he said he wanted team leadership at GT's but he's in danger of things going wrong whenever it's offered or given :(
    2020/2021 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    deejay wrote:
    Money also rules the Olympics which is another Joke. (but not given to competitors except for expenses)
    Has this post escaped from the early 80s? The Olympics has allowed professional sportsmen and women since 1992 (the decision was taken earlier!).
    That is very correct that in Barcelona 1992, the DREAM TEAM were gathered together from the best professionals for the very first time so that when they won they would command even bigger Pay packets. Hence Money, Money, Money, OLYMPICS, since then.
    I'm glad you mentioned the 80's because that rich country the USA were losing face in the only International event they knew or cared about from a little communist country in Eastern Europe.
    So they proposed that the Olympics become "OPEN" and that redressed the games for their medal tally with that little communist country losing out against the Money. (It took a few years to Implement)

    The OP is about what is considered the Joke Sport and I suggest you ask your non-cycling associates or friends about their thoughts.
    Without having to mention Deep in the Heart of TEXAS.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • john1967john1967 Posts: 366
    There is nothing wrong with cycling. This is just one rider who didn't know the rules or chose to ignore them.Can you imagine an F1 car pulling into another teams pit or cricketer taking to the field without knowing the rules?.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,879
    john1967 wrote:
    Can you imagine an F1 car pulling into another teams pit
    Lewis Hamilton did that a couple of years ago. They've just given him $100m

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oew-leGiqk
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    However much you want to call this sport a joke, I know, and deep down you probably know, it is the best sport in the World.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • dish_dashdish_dash Posts: 5,321
    However much you want to call this sport a joke, I know, and deep down you probably know, it is the best sport in the World.

    :lol:
  • mm1mm1 Posts: 1,063
    dish_dash wrote:
    However much you want to call this sport a joke, I know, and deep down you probably know, it is the best sport in the World.

    :lol:

    King of Sports, as the legendary Pete Ward titled his book (Tour of Britain rider in the days when the equally legendary Chas Messenger designed the course).
  • ai_1ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    However much you want to call this sport a joke, I know, and deep down you probably know, it is the best sport in the World.
    That's quite the claim!

    No sport is the best sport in the world. There's most popular, fastest, most skillful, most demanding. There is no best.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 17,371
    Ai_1 wrote:
    There is no best.

    You've clearly never watched a top class Hurling match.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Offshore sailing is the king of sports, as you can't get off the boat!
  • john1967john1967 Posts: 366
    RichN95 wrote:
    john1967 wrote:
    Can you imagine an F1 car pulling into another teams pit
    Lewis Hamilton did that a couple of years ago. They've just given him $100m

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Oew-leGiqk

    yes but did McLaren give him a set of wheels.....no....because they understood the rules.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,064
    What the rules say is irrelevant John...but there is a thread about that already
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • john1967john1967 Posts: 366
    ddraver wrote:
    What the rules say is irrelevant John...but there is a thread about that already

    Nothing in professional sport is more important than the rules.The rules were broken and punishment was applied,why does that make cycling a joke?
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,064
    Seriously, there are nearly 30 pages of this in the stage thread, have a look there. Re-hashing it here will just annoy people.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • john1967john1967 Posts: 366
    ddraver wrote:
    Seriously, there are nearly 30 pages of this in the stage thread, have a look there. Re-hashing it here will just annoy people.


    I thought this thread was discussing the Porte incident and cyclings response hence the thread title(joke of a sport).The OP compared Urans crash to Portes indiscretion.Last time I checked crashing was not against the rules,if that annoys people then so be it but rules are rules.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,576
    I think someone needs to read more carefully. The point being made wasn't that he crashed but that he got back on by drafting (other team's) cars. It's the arbitrary application of rules that people aren't happy with. See again today - half the peloton flaunting the rules on rain capes / gilets and about 99% failing to display their numbers but the only fines handed out were to 3 riders for insulting, threatening or unseemly behaviour.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 24,064
    +1 with Pros. The rules very clearly are not rules
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
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