SRAM WOW!!!

neilr4

Hi Guys,

Not wanting to get embroiled in a SRAM vs Shimano argument here but I'm testing out a frame from a LBS that already has one built up with SRAM Force (10 speed!) I'm coming off a 15 yo aluminium bike with DA 7700 and have on order DA 9000 to go onto a frame of my choice.

Having never used SRAM it actually blew me away qua shift precision and had no complaints at all regarding braking performance and I'm wondering should I stay loyal to Shimano or take the plunge with SRAM, just love the shifting!!! :?:

luv2ride

I've been a SRAM fan since my first bike (Boardman) came shod with it. Briefly had a bike with Shimano 105 but much preferred SRAM. Now have Apex (winter bike), Rival ('cross bike) and Force (carbon road bike) and love 'em all. If you like it, go for for SRAM - it's all personal preference at the end of the day.

mfin

Go with Sram then, it's great. Get the new Force 22 or Red 22.

I wonder if the Force 10 you tried had the new shape levers same as the Force 22, if not, you'd end up with those too.

If you go for it, have a look at sites like Fudges Cycles, and consider mixing it with a Shimano chain and cassette, they work really well with sram, Merlin have good deals.

Shimano has the slick/quiet thing going on, Sram feels more machine-gun-like and positive. The new Sram front mechs are Yaw so don't need trimming and also have a built in chain catcher.

Bozman

I'd try the DA9000 first before you dive in and make what could be a major mistake.

noodleman

I've got ultegra, sram red, dura ace, campag chorus and ultegra di2 and i still think sram red is the nicest to use. I'd happily have it on all the bikes.

Late Starter

My latest bike came with SRAM Force. My two previous bikes both had Ultegra groupsets. Given the choice between them for my next bike, I would definitely go for the SRAM Force over UIltegra. Shifting is as good, if not better, and I seem to remember that the SRAM Force is, or was, even lighter than Dura Ace. Therefore a no brainer for me. :P

noodleman

Not sure sram force is lighter than dura ace but red definitely is.

cattytown

I like the SRAM Force on my best bike - F22. I went SRAM for two main reasons. I rode a SRAM equipped bike and liked the shifting, but I also felt the hoods were the most comfortable I had tried.

If SRAM is better for you go for it, but it may be wirth trying a bike equipped with modern Ultegra/DA before making the call - looking at 15yo DA isn't really a fair comparison.

Paul.

banditvic

I gave Dura Ace a go, but kept breaking cables on what was supposed to be the upgraded version to stop this happening. (9001 units). Returned to Sram Red 22 much better for me, have Force 22 on another bike which feels identical and Sram Rival 22 on another which feels slightly stiffer, but is supposed to be the same as Red, but with alloy levers. Could be the Mechs that are different.
Plus with Sram you don't have to faf about with front mech adjustment.

gsk82

I love my Sram Red :-)

Origami02

I have SRAM Rival, Force and Red and I think

diamonddog

Sram on 2 bikes, never had a problem, excellent groupsets.

Late Starter

noodleman wrote:

Not sure sram force is lighter than dura ace but red definitely is.

Apologies, I stand corrected. The following link shows groupset weights and Dura Ace is 83g lighter than SRAM Force. The Force is 213g lighter than Ultegra though. Not that I'm obsessed with groupset weights or anything. Interesting reading nevertheless!

http://www.totalcycling.com/en/gb/Compo ... /cc-8.aspx

stueys

I had SRAM red 22 on my cervelo before I swapped back to dura 9000. I still run rival 22 on my winter bike. Personal view is that SRAM front shifting isn't great on the lower group sets but is fine in red, rest of the groupsets are evenly matched other than ultegra brakes which are excellent. Red is very close to dura but dura just pips it for both shifting and brakes.

Red and dura are tight though, there isn't much between them.

norvernrob

Have Red on one bike, 105 on another and had Force on the one before. I like the feel and the shifting system of SRAM more, but I find Shimano slightly better for dropping down rear gears when climbing.

The SRAM front mechs are slightly more tricky to set up, I've found with both Force and Red a high cable tension gives perfect shifting every time. (Just pointing that out as a lot of people seem to criticise/struggle with SRAM front mechs).

I do really like SRAM, and my next groupset will almost certainly be their wireless offering (when it drops a bit in price and any initial problems after release have been ironed out).

menthel

Conversely, every time I try SRAM it reminds me how much I hate the double tap system!

TBH, it's all about how comfortable you feel on the hoods and with the shifting method- entirely personal preference. The three major brands otherwise are much the same.

cattytown

menthel wrote:

TBH, it's all about how comfortable you feel on the hoods and with the shifting method- entirely personal preference. The three major brands otherwise are much the same.

This.

neilr4

Hi Guys thank you all very much for your opinions regarding both SRAM and Shimano. It's great to get honest unbiased advice.

The bike I had on test is going back tomorrow! I rode a cyclo-sprotief yesterday on it (180km) which really gave me an honest chance to test out the SRAM components (10 speed Force with Red chainset) as well as the frame (Neil Pryde Diablo).

Conclusion:
Frame tested will be ordered, was very pleased with what will be my first Carbon bike!! Love the positive 'click' and the high spring tension for both front and rear shifting, front shifting was impressive I must say..... super fast!! Braking was better than I expected as compared to Shimano brakes SRAM look flimsy, no qualms at all.

Two hours into the ride with fatigue starting to set in I found it difficult to find a comfortable position on the hoods..... Up shifting, (1 click) perfect although I did find the throw for the down (double click) a bit too far on the fly whilst climbing or on the drops.

I will be ordering DA 9000 to go on my new bike based purely on hood/shifter ergonomics.

A bonus over SRAM will be even better braking, smoother shifting and aesthetics especially that chainset. I will be selling-on the DA cassette and using Ultegra instead, don't need the weight benefit of titanium sprokets plus they wear quicker!!

mfin

menthel wrote:

Conversely, every time I try SRAM it reminds me how much I hate the double tap system!

TBH, it's all about how comfortable you feel on the hoods and with the shifting method- entirely personal preference. The three major brands otherwise are much the same.

Plus the looks of course, all the shimano groupsets are a good way of showing people you don't care about looks.

neilr4

mfin wrote:

Plus the looks of course, all the shimano groupsets are a good way of showing people you don't care about looks.

Up until now all the reactions were positive!!

Unfortunately there's usually at least one idiot who thinks that their taste is better than everyone else's and only their opinion counts!! :roll: :roll:

Thank you for sharing but next time don't bother!!! :x

Neil.

cswitch

Bozman wrote:

I'd try the DA9000 first before you dive in and make what could be a major mistake.

My advice is don't. Cassettes that break and cables that snap because of a dodgy design. I know as I experienced both numerous times. The shifters were the updated version 9001, which did not change the cable routing.

Sure shifting is great but its down to the cables. Put the 9000 cables in another groupset and it has a similar impact to the shifting - very light.

anjasola

Last two bikes I have built both have SRAM red hydraulic, very pleased.

neilr4

cswitch wrote:

Bozman wrote:

I'd try the DA9000 first before you dive in and make what could be a major mistake.

My advice is don't. Cassettes that break and cables that snap because of a dodgy design. I know as I experienced both numerous times. The shifters were the updated version 9001, which did not change the cable routing.

Sure shifting is great but its down to the cables. Put the 9000 cables in another groupset and it has a similar impact to the shifting - very light.

Interesting

Origami02

neilr4 wrote:

Conclusion:

Two hours into the ride with fatigue starting to set in I found it difficult to find a comfortable position on the hoods.....

If you rode Force ten speed you haven't experienced the lastest improved hood ergonomics. Force ten hoods:



Force 22 hoods:

neilr4 wrote:

Up shifting, (1 click) perfect although I did find the throw for the down (double click) a bit too far on the fly whilst climbing or on the drops.

Firstly, the reach of the gear paddle on Sram is adjustable via a cam. This doesn't necessarily change the throw, but can make reaching the paddle from the drops easier.
Secondly, downshifting on the Shimano involves the whole brake lever. Bigger lever = bigger throw.

So

neilr4 wrote:

I will be ordering DA 9000 to go on my new bike based purely on hood/shifter ergonomics.

isn't necessarily the right conclusion when comparing the latest Sram Red or Force to Dura Ace.

neilr4

Origami02 wrote:

neilr4 wrote:

Conclusion:

Two hours into the ride with fatigue starting to set in I found it difficult to find a comfortable position on the hoods.....

If you rode Force ten speed you haven't experienced the lastest improved hood ergonomics. Force ten hoods:



Force 22 hoods:

neilr4 wrote:

Up shifting, (1 click) perfect although I did find the throw for the down (double click) a bit too far on the fly whilst climbing or on the drops.

Firstly, the reach of the gear paddle on Sram is adjustable via a cam. This doesn't necessarily change the throw, but can make reaching the paddle from the drops easier.
Secondly, downshifting on the Shimano involves the whole brake lever. Bigger lever = bigger throw.

So

neilr4 wrote:

I will be ordering DA 9000 to go on my new bike based purely on hood/shifter ergonomics.

isn't necessarily the right conclusion when comparing the latest Sram Red or Force to Dura Ace.

Yes Origami02 I get your point and will try out the new SRAM 22 levers before I place an order, would hate to regret it at a later date!!!

mfin

New Sram Levers as far as shape/ergonomics go are a massive improvement over the old ones, no way I'd have the old shape levers.

cswitch

neilr4 wrote:

cswitch wrote:

Bozman wrote:

I'd try the DA9000 first before you dive in and make what could be a major mistake.

My advice is don't. Cassettes that break and cables that snap because of a dodgy design. I know as I experienced both numerous times. The shifters were the updated version 9001, which did not change the cable routing.

Sure shifting is great but its down to the cables. Put the 9000 cables in another groupset and it has a similar impact to the shifting - very light.

Interesting

Do a search on the internet for 9000 cassette failures and 9000 / 9001 cable snapping you should come across a fair few posts. The cables kept snapping on the right shifter after 3 months (at least on the go to bike, it was almost like clockwork), 2 different shifters on two different bikes. both shifters were the 9001 version and both had cable failures. Failure of the carbon carrier on the cassette too - moved onto SRAM after that. Not looked back - the SRAM is light and works great. Much prefer the crisp click shifting over the 9000 shifting which though smooth felt detached from the drivetrain - just too light for my liking. The 9000 front mech shifting is good though. I went to 9000 after two failing shifters (6700) which were about a year old so have now given up a little on Shimano. Having said that I know historically SRAM have not been without their issues but so far no issue for me with their new stuff.

secretsam

Campag's quite good as well

meesterbond

Are hoods really that much of a problem for people? I've got Red, Ultegra and Record on different bikes and can't say I've ever finished a ride thinking that the shape of the hoods was either good or bad...

The method of shifting, perhaps, although even then I adapt to any of them pretty quickly.

stueys

cswitch wrote:

neilr4 wrote:

cswitch wrote:

Bozman wrote:

I'd try the DA9000 first before you dive in and make what could be a major mistake.

My advice is don't. Cassettes that break and cables that snap because of a dodgy design. I know as I experienced both numerous times. The shifters were the updated version 9001, which did not change the cable routing.

Sure shifting is great but its down to the cables. Put the 9000 cables in another groupset and it has a similar impact to the shifting - very light.

Interesting

Do a search on the internet for 9000 cassette failures and 9000 / 9001 cable snapping you should come across a fair few posts. The cables kept snapping on the right shifter after 3 months (at least on the go to bike, it was almost like clockwork), 2 different shifters on two different bikes. both shifters were the 9001 version and both had cable failures. Failure of the carbon carrier on the cassette too - moved onto SRAM after that. Not looked back - the SRAM is light and works great. Much prefer the crisp click shifting over the 9000 shifting which though smooth felt detached from the drivetrain - just too light for my liking. The 9000 front mech shifting is good though. I went to 9000 after two failing shifters (6700) which were about a year old so have now given up a little on Shimano. Having said that I know historically SRAM have not been without their issues but so far no issue for me with their new stuff.

I thought that 9001 had resolved the cable snapping issue? Certainly not had an issue with mine. The dura cassette definitely has a design flaw, lots of people tend to run the ultegra one or you can run the Red 22 cassette (which I do) which is lighter but pricey.

veronese68

meesterbond wrote:

Are hoods really that much of a problem for people? I've got Red, Ultegra and Record on different bikes and can't say I've ever finished a ride thinking that the shape of the hoods was either good or bad...

The method of shifting, perhaps, although even then I adapt to any of them pretty quickly.

I read the book Bike Fit by Phil Burt and he was saying how different people are in sensitivity to set up. Some would notice the slightest change and complain, whilst others could just get on almost any bike and just ride. I'd say you are not hyper sensitive to small changes, thankfully neither am I.
Good book, worth a read.