BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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I think they are going to end up daring the EU to put up barriers between Ireland and NI.0
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The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.0 -
How much Florida swamp land do you want to buy?rjsterry said:
Good. Glad you agree. I'm not concerned about us signing up to this either. Seems entirely sensible as propping up unprofitable businesses is not generally something governments should be doing. Just wondering why it is so objectionable to be similarly bound in an FTA with the EU. Especially seeing as we can only really run one state aid framework at a time.coopster_the_1st said:
That agreement prohibits the governments from indefinitely guaranteeing the debts of struggling companies or providing an open-ended bailout without a clear restructuring plan in place.rjsterry said:
😄 Not upset at all. Pleased to see we are quite happy to trade some sovereignty for economic gain.coopster_the_1st said:
Why should we give the EU the same trade agreement framework as we are giving to others?rjsterry said:
Here's the first couple of paragraphs.Stevo_666 said:
Paywalled, can't read it.rjsterry said:Well this can't be right, Stevo was sure that there was no ceding of sovereignty in the Japan UK trade deal and yet here I'm reading that the state aid rules in that very treaty are more onerous than those the UK is offering the EU.
https://amp.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a&__twitter_impression=true
The UK’s new trade deal with Japan commits it to tougher restrictions on state aid than the ones it is currently offering the EU in the Brexit talks, potentially undermining its negotiating position with Brussels.
In the bilateral UK-Japan agreement announced in principle on Friday, London and Tokyo have agreed to replicate the restrictions on subsidies in the EU-Japan deal that went into effect last year. That agreement prohibits the governments from indefinitely guaranteeing the debts of struggling companies or providing an open-ended bailout without a clear restructuring plan in place.
By contrast, the UK has repeatedly told the European Union that it must have total freedom over state aid after the end of the Brexit transition period with complete autonomy over future subsidy decisions, subject to WTO rules.
This is in our gift to not do this.
Why are remoaners upset that we are playing by the same rules that they are defending the EU of using?
More hypocrisy from remoaners
I am more than happy for these quoted rules to be in place. Based on their natural views this actually binds future Labour governments more than Conservative ones.
You are trying to make out this is something to be concerned about when it is not and you have just torpedoed your own argument.
You are obviously that gullible if you think the EU are only insisting on this framework. We can already see how they are trying to hive off NI out of the UK0 -
Let's see how much they really care about the GFA not to mention the way they will be censored by the US Democrats...kingstongraham said:I think they are going to end up daring the EU to put up barriers between Ireland and NI.
We all know they will throw Ireland under the bus when it suits the EU.0 -
You are over thinking this, it is a made up argument to fire up the masses.tailwindhome said:Seems the lawyers have looked at the IMB and concluded it does nothing to stop any restrictions on food imports to NI should the UK not have 3rd party country status.
National law does not take precedence over International Law. If the people of NI were starving I think we would ship them food whether we had the right stamp on our paperwork or not.
If the EU were going to cobble together the ships to enforce a naval blockade then Boris's dodgy bit of legislation would not stop them0 -
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.0 -
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.0 -
Like I said, we need to recognise that we aren't in the EU any more, and the transition period comes to an end at the end of this year.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.0 -
We haven't left these standards yet.kingstongraham said:
Like I said, we need to recognise that we aren't in the EU any more, and the transition period comes to an end at the end of this year.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.
You should ask yourself why is this documentation which is exactly as the EU's current rules is so important to the EU today and cannot wait until late December? Especially when we have regularly said we will notify of any changes in good time.0 -
Barnier won't like that.coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.0 -
It's hard to take any Brexit reporting at face value. A quick google reveals there might be some differences around the dispute and reporting mechanism.rjsterry said:
The entire point of the article is that it hasn't, but they could be mistaken. The UK Japan agreement copies and pastes the state aid rules from the EU Japan deal as I understand it.TheBigBean said:
Fairly sure the UK has offered the same to the EU.surrey_commuter said:
Thanks for posting this up as this could be a game changerrjsterry said:
Here's the first couple of paragraphs.Stevo_666 said:
Paywalled, can't read it.rjsterry said:Well this can't be right, Stevo was sure that there was no ceding of sovereignty in the Japan UK trade deal and yet here I'm reading that the state aid rules in that very treaty are more onerous than those the UK is offering the EU.
https://amp.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178?desktop=true&segmentId=d8d3e364-5197-20eb-17cf-2437841d178a&__twitter_impression=trueThe UK’s new trade deal with Japan commits it to tougher restrictions on state aid than the ones it is currently offering the EU in the Brexit talks, potentially undermining its negotiating position with Brussels.
In the bilateral UK-Japan agreement announced in principle on Friday, London and Tokyo have agreed to replicate the restrictions on subsidies in the EU-Japan deal that went into effect last year. That agreement prohibits the governments from indefinitely guaranteeing the debts of struggling companies or providing an open-ended bailout without a clear restructuring plan in place.
By contrast, the UK has repeatedly told the European Union that it must have total freedom over state aid after the end of the Brexit transition period with complete autonomy over future subsidy decisions, subject to WTO rules.
Here's an alternative link
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/uks-new-trade-deal-with-japan-commits-it-to-tougher-restrictions-on-state-aid-20200913
First option is that Liz Truss gets fired
Second option is that we realise Canada Deal involves trading sovereignty and we speed up our walk.
Third option is that it is now cost free to agree the same arrangement with the EU.
Even the article concludes by saying it is much closer to the UK position that the EU's
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So it's a 5 minute job to just resend it but we're refusing to do so in a slightly pathetic "you're not the boss of me" move. Good.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Killing time reading this thread as the IT support company try to fix my laptop. It has made me realise why I gave up on it in the first place. I wonder when the last time was that anyone changed their mind on Brexit?0
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I thought you of all people would not be so naive about the way the EU will operate.coopster_the_1st said:
We haven't left these standards yet.kingstongraham said:
Like I said, we need to recognise that we aren't in the EU any more, and the transition period comes to an end at the end of this year.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.
You should ask yourself why is this documentation which is exactly as the EU's current rules is so important to the EU today and cannot wait until late December? Especially when we have regularly said we will notify of any changes in good time.0 -
I agree we all knew the EU would be obstructive to the UK leaving but it is good that you are confirming by taking this approach they are breaching their side of the WA.kingstongraham said:
I thought you of all people would not be so naive about the way the EU will operate.coopster_the_1st said:
We haven't left these standards yet.kingstongraham said:
Like I said, we need to recognise that we aren't in the EU any more, and the transition period comes to an end at the end of this year.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.
You should ask yourself why is this documentation which is exactly as the EU's current rules is so important to the EU today and cannot wait until late December? Especially when we have regularly said we will notify of any changes in good time.0 -
I don't think I said that.coopster_the_1st said:
I agree we all knew the EU would be obstructive to the UK leaving but it is good that you are confirming by taking this approach they are breaching their side of the WA.kingstongraham said:
I thought you of all people would not be so naive about the way the EU will operate.coopster_the_1st said:
We haven't left these standards yet.kingstongraham said:
Like I said, we need to recognise that we aren't in the EU any more, and the transition period comes to an end at the end of this year.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.
You should ask yourself why is this documentation which is exactly as the EU's current rules is so important to the EU today and cannot wait until late December? Especially when we have regularly said we will notify of any changes in good time.0 -
What way did you *think* the EU operate?kingstongraham said:
I don't think I said that.coopster_the_1st said:
I agree we all knew the EU would be obstructive to the UK leaving but it is good that you are confirming by taking this approach they are breaching their side of the WA.kingstongraham said:
I thought you of all people would not be so naive about the way the EU will operate.coopster_the_1st said:
We haven't left these standards yet.kingstongraham said:
Like I said, we need to recognise that we aren't in the EU any more, and the transition period comes to an end at the end of this year.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.
You should ask yourself why is this documentation which is exactly as the EU's current rules is so important to the EU today and cannot wait until late December? Especially when we have regularly said we will notify of any changes in good time.0 -
They get what they want.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Generally, rules based. But they have made the rules.coopster_the_1st said:
What way did you *think* the EU operate?kingstongraham said:
I don't think I said that.coopster_the_1st said:
I agree we all knew the EU would be obstructive to the UK leaving but it is good that you are confirming by taking this approach they are breaching their side of the WA.kingstongraham said:
I thought you of all people would not be so naive about the way the EU will operate.coopster_the_1st said:
We haven't left these standards yet.kingstongraham said:
Like I said, we need to recognise that we aren't in the EU any more, and the transition period comes to an end at the end of this year.coopster_the_1st said:
Because the EU already has their own documentation on this as we are in full compliance of these regulations.kingstongraham said:
Can you explain why the UK hasn't provided the documentation of the standards that will apply on Jan 1st - I mean they are currently the same, and I assume will continue to be the same or higher, so what's the problem? The UK has to start behaving like it's not a member of the EU. We left, remember?coopster_the_1st said:The EU are complying with the WA are they?
What the EU has yet to accept is that they are no longer going to have control over the UK. This is exactly the reason why millions voted to Leave and the Leave argument is just getting stronger due to the EU's actions.
As you can see from Sir David's other tweets the EU and WTO will be informed in good time of any changes from the standards that we currently have.
You should ask yourself why is this documentation which is exactly as the EU's current rules is so important to the EU today and cannot wait until late December? Especially when we have regularly said we will notify of any changes in good time.
Oh, and keeping the clock running.0 -
It's a shame no-one could have predicted a large trading block would have a stronger negotiating position than an individual country.0
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How often do you get people in RL who tell you what they actually think about Brexit if it is in disagreement?Pross said:Killing time reading this thread as the IT support company try to fix my laptop. It has made me realise why I gave up on it in the first place. I wonder when the last time was that anyone changed their mind on Brexit?
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I dunno, I've made peace with it. I can't see any deal being made until the Cuckoo and his advisor are ousted by Conservatives who want their party back. Mostly I'm here for the increasingly hilarious justifications of how the latest f***-up is all part of a clever plan.Pross said:Killing time reading this thread as the IT support company try to fix my laptop. It has made me realise why I gave up on it in the first place. I wonder when the last time was that anyone changed their mind on Brexit?
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Rumours circulating that Johnson will withdraw the whip from those who vote against the IMB. Here we go again. 🤣1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
If the UK doesn't get 3rd party status listing, the transfers of Asda Lasagnes to NI will be the least of their problems.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Stevo_666 said:
The clause I referred to in the WA allows us to take action now that the implications have become apparent.rjsterry said:
Too late. It's not a threat by someone else to carve up the UK. It's something we have already willingly committed to doing.Stevo_666 said:Regardless of how we came into this situation, the issue still remains that there will be on-going EU influence over UK affairs and It needs to 've solved.
The WA was passed in parallel with a promise from the EU to conclude a swift and comprehensive free trade accord: “It is the clear intent of both parties to develop in good faith agreements giving effect to this relationship… such that they can come into force by the end of 2020”. The EU is refusing to reconsider, even though they themselves are clearly acting in bad faith after offering a Canada style deal and then withdrawing it on the basis the we are somehow now 'too close'.
The WA also contains the following clause: “If the application of this Protocol leads to serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist, or to diversion of trade, the Union or the United Kingdom may unilaterally take appropriate safeguard measures.” The EU threat to carve up the UK down the Irish Sea clearly fits that bill in my view, so we have every right to take action.
Sorting out a FTA would avoid this, but the EU withdrawal of the Canada option shows that they are negotiating in bad faith, as mentioned above.
Johnson's 'bad faith' accusation is blown out of the water, with a statement from Brandon Lewis to the Commons Northern Ireland affairs committee:
"The government is extremely confident that the EU is working in good faith and shares our desire to avoid these serious consequences. However as a responsible government we must ensure there is no risk of these damaging consequences coming into force. It is therefore important for the government to be able to act as necessary if a negotiated outcome in the joint committee should not be possible. This is not an outcome that we expect, or hope for, but one that any responsible government must be prepared for."
When not even 'one of the team' can support the lies...0 -
Oh look who's feeling starved of attention.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
Oh look who's feeling starved of attention.
Mind you, he's right. The Brexit he originally said he was fighting for left us in the Single Market and Customs Union. Well, that's if you take his original oral statements at face value.0 -
Moving on from the great food blockade, it's back to no clearing in London
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/iskvuk/exclusive_eu_to_delay_euro_clearing_decision_due/0 -
Yes, saw that. I fear we will soon see what unreasonable really looks like.TheBigBean said:Moving on from the great food blockade, it's back to no clearing in London
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/iskvuk/exclusive_eu_to_delay_euro_clearing_decision_due/1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
