BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
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TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.0 -
U-turn incoming?
You mean it was all for show? Well who would believe it?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.0 -
Ditto Nancy Pelosi?TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think you are being unfair in expecting them to know the line by line detail as part of their job. Surely all they need is an exec summary so they can play to the Irish vote.Stevo_666 said:
Ditto Nancy Pelosi?TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.0 -
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?0 -
I don't really understand your replies. I'm clearly advocating that more people should read it. Especially those who are about to talk about it.rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?0 -
Smelt a lot like whataboutery to me, to be honest.TheBigBean said:
I don't really understand your replies. I'm clearly advocating that more people should read it. Especially those who are about to talk about it.rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?
The criticism here was that the foreign secretary ought to have read it, given how critical it is to his job.
And you started pointing the finger at Biden.0 -
I'll make it simply for you. Raab should have read it. So should every NI secretary. So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it, but he doesn't need to if he is just appealing to MIRA fans as @surrey_commuter says. Clear?rick_chasey said:
Smelt a lot like whataboutery to me, to be honest.TheBigBean said:
I don't really understand your replies. I'm clearly advocating that more people should read it. Especially those who are about to talk about it.rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?
The criticism here was that the foreign secretary ought to have read it, given how critical it is to his job.
And you started pointing the finger at Biden.0 -
If he read it would be even remember in 30 seconds?rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?1 -
Raab not having read it is old news, unless we're saying he *still* hasn't read it.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Still hasn't read it afaik.tailwindhome said:Raab not having read it is old news, unless we're saying he *still* hasn't read it.
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An article I skim read this morning in the Times suggested that Boris is planning on going green and promoting hydrogen. Not exactly my idea, but a small step in the right direction.rjsterry said:
The gulf between that idea and where the current government is is vast.TheBigBean said:
I don't have the energy to look at each one, but the Paris Agreement was welched on. There was a withdrawal mechanism, but the US withdrew much earlier than it legally could.tailwindhome said:
Welched on, or withdrew when legally entitled to?TheBigBean said:
As I have said before, it is not the route I think the UK should take, but it is almost amusing the US criticising the UK for breaking agreements. Just from recent memory the US has welched on the Paris Agreement, Iran nuclear deal, NAFTA, Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, Trans Pacific Partnership and the WTO. Plus plenty of others.rick_chasey said:
The way I see it, the UK is on the cusp of not being able to strike a trade deal with the biggest market in the world, and in so doing, is risking scuppering the chances for a trade deal with the second biggest market in the world.TheBigBean said:
Have you seen comment from any other country? What's your view of the Japan / Korea trade ware? Should it have affected the UK / Japan trade deal?rick_chasey said:Remind me, hasn't it been argued on here that one of the main reasons for being pro-brexit, or at least one of the opportunities, is for the UK to be able to make more UK friendly, bespoke trade deals with the rest of the world?
In which case, surely this behaviour is damaging that opportunity?
It's great the UK rolled over the existing EU-Japan trade deal with a few sensible tweaks. Different countries have different tolerances.
If I ruled the UK, I would be tempted by a policy of no trade agreements with any country that isn't part of the Paris Agreement or similar. Might add the international criminal court too.0 -
TheBigBean said:
So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it
It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.
Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
shortfall said:
If he read it would be even remember in 30 seconds?rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?
Ah, the shamelessly ironic Trumpian 'Biden's losing it' attack.
Now they are trying the 'he had advance notification of the questions' for last night's town hall... the trouble is, taking that line suggests that he's quite good at remembering stuff...
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Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.tailwindhome said:TheBigBean said:So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it
It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.
Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats
Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?1 -
interesting that they have stopped identifying his close links to the Tory party. His weekly article reads like it is written by Central Office which makes it interesting as it is a good a guide as any to what "the plan" is.TheBigBean said:
An article I skim read this morning in the Times suggested that Boris is planning on going green and promoting hydrogen. Not exactly my idea, but a small step in the right direction.rjsterry said:
The gulf between that idea and where the current government is is vast.TheBigBean said:
I don't have the energy to look at each one, but the Paris Agreement was welched on. There was a withdrawal mechanism, but the US withdrew much earlier than it legally could.tailwindhome said:
Welched on, or withdrew when legally entitled to?TheBigBean said:
As I have said before, it is not the route I think the UK should take, but it is almost amusing the US criticising the UK for breaking agreements. Just from recent memory the US has welched on the Paris Agreement, Iran nuclear deal, NAFTA, Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, Trans Pacific Partnership and the WTO. Plus plenty of others.rick_chasey said:
The way I see it, the UK is on the cusp of not being able to strike a trade deal with the biggest market in the world, and in so doing, is risking scuppering the chances for a trade deal with the second biggest market in the world.TheBigBean said:
Have you seen comment from any other country? What's your view of the Japan / Korea trade ware? Should it have affected the UK / Japan trade deal?rick_chasey said:Remind me, hasn't it been argued on here that one of the main reasons for being pro-brexit, or at least one of the opportunities, is for the UK to be able to make more UK friendly, bespoke trade deals with the rest of the world?
In which case, surely this behaviour is damaging that opportunity?
It's great the UK rolled over the existing EU-Japan trade deal with a few sensible tweaks. Different countries have different tolerances.
If I ruled the UK, I would be tempted by a policy of no trade agreements with any country that isn't part of the Paris Agreement or similar. Might add the international criminal court too.0 -
Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?TheBigBean said:
Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.0 -
The trouble with Ireland is that there is no ideal solution.
N.I. cannot be in the UK and the EU. A hard border is required somewhere.
If a hard border is not required in Ireland then none is needed at Dover.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
article in The Economist linking Boris's intransigence over state aid is partly down to feeling the need to prop up companies/sectors hit by Brexit, this would explain why they won't/can't spell out their post-Brexit plan.0
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Lol will have a read.surrey_commuter said:article in The Economist linking Boris's intransigence over state aid is partly down to feeling the need to prop up companies/sectors hit by Brexit, this would explain why they won't/can't spell out their post-Brexit plan.
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rick_chasey said:
Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?TheBigBean said:
Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.
It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?0 -
Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?TheBigBean said:
Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.
It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?0 -
It is difficult to imagine how Biden's team could possibly have predicted questions on the pandemic, healthcare, the environment, unrest, policing and racism.briantrumpet said:shortfall said:
If he read it would be even remember in 30 seconds?rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?
Ah, the shamelessly ironic Trumpian 'Biden's losing it' attack.
Now they are trying the 'he had advance notification of the questions' for last night's town hall... the trouble is, taking that line suggests that he's quite good at remembering stuff...0 -
At this stage, nothing more than not giving May the same exit clause as Boris to get the original backstop through.TheBigBean said:
Ireland definitely has the better PR team. I read an article on the extent they had gone to promote their point of view. Taking journalists on guided tours of the border etc.tailwindhome said:TheBigBean said:So should Biden if he wants to make an international point about it
It's a long term failure of British and NI Unionist politicians that they are unable to have their position (whether you agree with or not) heard in other countries.
Suggesting they haven't read it, or in the case of Pelosi mocking their misnaming of it, when they've already taken a position on it reminds me of the joke about Trump's latest incendiary tweet generating 100,000 grammatical corrections from Democrats
Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
I may change my mind at later stage when we learn more about what's happening with the Joint Committee. There seems to be fundamental things that could have been done earlier to minimise the impact of the NIP. For example some sort of exemption for major retailers such as ASDA and Tesco that their deliveries would be assumed to be not at risk of moving into the single market.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Taking what propoganda cheerleaders like Bill O'Reilly take at face value is the same technique that thick people and people like Bill use when they take a deliberately and obviously exaggerated point and take that at face value too.kingstongraham said:
It is difficult to imagine how Biden's team could possibly have predicted questions on the pandemic, healthcare, the environment, unrest, policing and racism.briantrumpet said:shortfall said:
If he read it would be even remember in 30 seconds?rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?
Ah, the shamelessly ironic Trumpian 'Biden's losing it' attack.
Now they are trying the 'he had advance notification of the questions' for last night's town hall... the trouble is, taking that line suggests that he's quite good at remembering stuff...
The Trump regime is quite clearly fascistic in terms of the way it operates, so you ought to treat it like you would other fascistic propagandists.
No-one's gonna sit and post Goebbels' lies and point out the mistakes - why do the same for someone like Bill?0 -
rick_chasey said:
Taking what propoganda cheerleaders like Bill O'Reilly take at face value is the same technique that thick people and people like Bill use when they take a deliberately and obviously exaggerated point and take that at face value too.kingstongraham said:
It is difficult to imagine how Biden's team could possibly have predicted questions on the pandemic, healthcare, the environment, unrest, policing and racism.briantrumpet said:shortfall said:
If he read it would be even remember in 30 seconds?rick_chasey said:
Amazing.TheBigBean said:
Does that cover Joe Biden?briantrumpet said:TheBigBean said:
Not many people who talk about it have.rjsterry said:Raab has just admitted that he has not actually sat down and read the GFA from the beginning. I feel like I should be surprised or dismayed but...
True, though it would be quite nice if people who's job it is to do just that did so.
What is it about being foreign minister of the UK, when going to the US who are specifically animated about the GFA, means it's OK to not read the 35 page document? Given what is going on, is it not one of the few things you really ought to be all over?
The guy is a former lawyer, and apparently a good one, so you would think something like the GFA would be within his grasp.
For what it's worth, do we know if Biden's read it or not?
Ah, the shamelessly ironic Trumpian 'Biden's losing it' attack.
Now they are trying the 'he had advance notification of the questions' for last night's town hall... the trouble is, taking that line suggests that he's quite good at remembering stuff...
The Trump regime is quite clearly fascistic in terms of the way it operates, so you ought to treat it like you would other fascistic propagandists.
No-one's gonna sit and post Goebbels' lies and point out the mistakes - why do the same for someone like Bill?
It's the same with Trump - there's really no point in trying to parse the stuff that tumbles out of his mouth, as his whole point is to undermine belief in political discourse, so people fall back on gut reaction and tribal loyalties.0 -
...- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
an alternative answer is that Brexit united a broad church of people behind what they did not want but have no unity in where they are going.rick_chasey said:
Some fairly influential people in government (Gove) refer to the GFA as a national humiliation for the UK, so go figure.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
Trusting the UK that it would abide by agreements it's signed 9 months prior?TheBigBean said:
Good to see you can't resist the thread though. Any thoughts yet on the mistakes made by Ireland and the EU?
I think generally everyone sensible has underestimated the power and the revolutionary vigour of the eurosceptics in UK politics.
It does seem that there's a close link between Brexit and wanting to go back to the pre-GFA state of affairs in NI: is it just because of some fixation on borders and tribalism?
Some want to preserve the Union at all costs whereas others want a pure Brexit
Boris may well have figured out that like May he has no majority for either course of action.0
