Alpe d,huez climb.

ademort

Question for the more technical buffs on the forum. I,m climbing Alpe d,huez for charity six times in June. Can anybody tell me how many watts i will need to produce on average for the climb. Perhaps one of you have done it and could give me an idea. Thanks in advance.

BrandonA

How much do you weigh and how long do you want to take? I'm sure you could get up with a sub 200 wattage but it would take you a lot longer than if you managed 300.

ademort

BrandonA wrote:

How much do you weigh and how long do you want to take? I'm sure you could get up with a sub 200 wattage but it would take you a lot longer than if you managed 300.

I weigh 87Kgs and want to take around 60 minutes.

Tom Dean

http://www.cyclingascents.com/alpedhuez.html#.VVJD4Yp4XCR
320ish

ugo.santalucia

ademort wrote:

I weigh 87Kgs and want to take around 60 minutes.

Unrealistic...

ademort

Tom Dean wrote:

http://www.cyclingascents.com/alpedhuez.html#.VVJD4Yp4XCR
320ish

.

Thanks thats a great pointer for me.

Barbarossa

You should ask the question the other way round... If you know your threshold power, as you are doing the climb 6 times (I assume on the same day), take about 65% - 70% of it and plug it into the website above to tell you how long each ascent will take.

norvernrob

ugo.santalucia wrote:

ademort wrote:

I weigh 87Kgs and want to take around 60 minutes.

Unrealistic...

6 times one after the other, I'd say impossible...

Alex_Simmons/RST

ademort wrote:

Question for the more technical buffs on the forum. I,m climbing Alpe d,huez for charity six times in June. Can anybody tell me how many watts i will need to produce on average for the climb. Perhaps one of you have done it and could give me an idea. Thanks in advance.

An hour up Ad'H for an 87kg rider will require an average of approx 330W.

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2011/ ... rtals.html

neeb

I'm an above average climber for a fit amateur cyclist and I reckon I could just about manage the Alpe in an hour, probably with no more than a minute or two to spare. But it'd be an all-out effort and I'd probably be lying on the ground afterwards and certainly not doing it again 5 more times.. ;-) Given that you are asking the question in the way that you are, unless you are exceptionally naturally talented there is no way that you will be doing it in 6 hours, and I'd be thinking more along the lines of 10.

Alex_Simmons/RST

neeb wrote:

I'm an above average climber for a fit amateur cyclist and I reckon I could just about manage the Alpe in an hour, probably with no more than a minute or two to spare. But it'd be an all-out effort and I'd probably be lying on the ground afterwards and certainly not doing it again 5 more times.. ;-) Given that you are asking the question in the way that you are, unless you are exceptionally naturally talented there is no way that you will be doing it in 6 hours, and I'd be thinking more along the lines of 10.

I didn't see where the OP said anything about consecutive ascents. 6 times in June is what they said.

Doing it in a hour though with a threshold power of less than 3.8W/kg is the bit that won't happen.

ugo.santalucia

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Doing it in a hour though with a threshold power of less than 3.8W/kg is the bit that won't happen.

Without the support of numbers, my experience says that I have never seen an amateur of 87 Kg with a VAM that exceeds 1000 mt/h... and that is considering a "full on" effort.
If the OP needs to do it 6 times, I would like to think he'd be a bit wiser in spending energy... I'd say 1:20 is realistic with good training and for a full on attempt maybe even 1:10... but that's where I would draw the line. If he trains more, he will inevitably lose weight

ademort

I,m climbing 6 times in one day starting at 04.30 until 20.00 in the evening. I can stop when i want.

ugo.santalucia

This is a list of times and VAM for the Alpe d'Huez

40 = 1575
50 = 1260
60 = 1050
70 = 900
80 = 787
90 = 700

The first is top PRO riders stuff, Contador and his friends, the second is a very good amateur, let's say someone who finishes in the top 5% at the Marmotte.
1050 is achievable but a very well trained amateur, someone who finishes in the top 25% at the Marmotte
900 is your everyday amateur who does 5-6000 miles per year and weighs around 70 Kg and gets silver, occasionally gets gold in a very hilly sportive
700-800 is achievable by most cyclists with a bit of experience, even on the slightly heavier side... your typical silver/bronze finisher in a hilly sportive.

My typical VAM is 900 for a climb of that magnitude (72 Kg)... I have ridden many climbs in the alps and pyrenees over the years and never managed to get a VAM of 1000, even when I was a tad lighter (69 Kg)

supermurph09

ademort wrote:

I,m climbing 6 times in one day starting at 04.30 until 20.00 in the evening. I can stop when i want.

All the best with your challenge, looks like you've been given some great advice above. What experience do you have that will help?

drlodge

To give some kind of comparison, on the 2,000 meter climb to the top of Gran Canaria (actually its more than that due to some down/ups) which is about 28 miles long it took me 4 hours in upper 20s temperature. I was in 34x28 or 34x32 most of the time with 2 or 3 stops on the way.

If you figure on being in 34x28 for the whole ride with a cadence of 70 ish (I guess) work out the speed and hence you have the time it'll take. My ascent averaged about 7.5 miles/hour, that's probably quite a good guide.

ademort

I,ve been cycling for 40 years. Mostly on my own at weekends i do 160 km rides only stopping briefly at garage for more fluids. I average 32 kmh or 20 mph and am very muscular in the legs. No fat just solid can,t help my weight it,s just the way i am. I also Ride to work every day 16kms each way and cycle in the evenings 2 or 3 times a week.

ugo.santalucia

ademort wrote:

I,ve been cycling for 40 years. Mostly on my own at weekends i do 160 km rides only stopping briefly at garage for more fluids. I average 32 kmh or 20 mph and am very muscular in the legs. No fat just solid can,t help my weight it,s just the way i am. I also Ride to work every day 16kms each way and cycle in the evenings 2 or 3 times a week.

Nobody is questioning your fitness, but the very fact that you ask how many watts you need to go up the AdH in 60 minutes, suggests you don't have a huge amount of experience in riding alpine climbs... otherwise you would know. I can predict to within + or - 5 minutes how long it will take me to climb any slope in the Alps and Pyrenees. The VAM is a very reproducible figure, if you take out the weather.

If you can drag 87 Kg of body mass up the AdH in 60 minutes for 6 times, then chapeau... I'd like to see that... :shock:

BrandonA

drlodge wrote:

To give some kind of comparison, on the 2,000 meter climb to the top of Gran Canaria (actually its more than that due to some down/ups) which is about 28 miles long it took me 4 hours in upper 20s temperature. I was in 34x28 or 34x32 most of the time with 2 or 3 stops on the way.

If you figure on being in 34x28 for the whole ride with a cadence of 70 ish (I guess) work out the speed and hence you have the time it'll take. My ascent averaged about 7.5 miles/hour, that's probably quite a good guide.

Until reading your post, I hadn't thought about cadence when I was reading this thread. I was thinking by looking at the watts/kg required to obtain a sub one hour time looked quite easy as it amount of effort is well below my FTP. When I do my FTP tests though my cadence is usually >90. Spinning this high cadence keeps the legs a bit fresher and lets me use my heart more. I'm not sure I'd like to ride a hole hour with such a low cadence as this would be completely unnatural to me and would require a bit of training to get the legs used to the additional stress.

ugo.santalucia

BrandonA wrote:

Until reading your post, I hadn't thought about cadence when I was reading this thread. I was thinking by looking at the watts/kg required to obtain a sub one hour time looked quite easy as it amount of effort is well below my FTP. When I do my FTP tests though my cadence is usually >90. Spinning this high cadence keeps the legs a bit fresher and lets me use my heart more. I'm not sure I'd like to ride a hole hour with such a low cadence as this would be completely unnatural to me and would require a bit of training to get the legs used to the additional stress.

What I find Brandon, is that people who have no real Alpine experience tend to overestimate their climbing ability. The fact that you can put down some numbers in Essex, or even in Wales, doesn't mean you will be albe to match them in the bigger mountains.

To give you an example... our classic ondulating rides at 18 mph and the more hilly ones at 16-17 mph get crushed by the reality... I have never averaged more than 13-15 mph in the Alps... when I did Aubsique and Tourmalet in the same day the average was around 12 mph... and that was a good day... I climbed the Aubsique in 80 minutes... that was a super day!

drlodge

May be 70 is a bit low. Just done the math: 34x28 at 7.5mph is a cadence of 80. Sounds about right for me.

ademort

ugo.santalucia wrote:

ademort wrote:

I,ve been cycling for 40 years. Mostly on my own at weekends i do 160 km rides only stopping briefly at garage for more fluids. I average 32 kmh or 20 mph and am very muscular in the legs. No fat just solid can,t help my weight it,s just the way i am. I also Ride to work every day 16kms each way and cycle in the evenings 2 or 3 times a week.

Nobody is questioning your fitness, but the very fact that you ask how many watts you need to go up the AdH in 60 minutes, suggests you don't have a huge amount of experience in riding alpine climbs... otherwise you would know. I can predict to within + or - 5 minutes how long it will take me to climb any slope in the Alps and Pyrenees. The VAM is a very reproducible figure, if you take out the weather.

If you can drag 87 Kg of body mass up the AdH in 60 minutes for 6 times, then chapeau... I'd like to see that... :shock:

I,ve never ridden an alpine climb in my life. I used to live in the lake district and am very familiar with the climbs of the fred whitton course, but i know this will be totally different. That,s why i,ve asked the question how many watts will i need to climb the alp.

ugo.santalucia

ademort wrote:

I,ve never ridden an alpine climb in my life. I used to live in the lake district and am very familiar with the climbs of the fred whitton course, but i know this will be totally different. That,s why i,ve asked the question how many watts will i need to climb the alp.

And the answer is for 60 minutes = 330 Watt... for an hour is hard going, for 6 hours is stuff of the legend.

Anyway... good luck with your effort, it's going to be a long day regardless

speedjunkie

ugo.santalucia wrote:

ademort wrote:

I,ve never ridden an alpine climb in my life. I used to live in the lake district and am very familiar with the climbs of the fred whitton course, but i know this will be totally different. That,s why i,ve asked the question how many watts will i need to climb the alp.

And the answer is for 60 minutes = 330 Watt... for an hour is hard going, for 6 hours is stuff of the legend.

Anyway... good luck with your effort, it's going to be a long day regardless

Mantain 330W for 6 hours !!!! :shock: Amstrong level

ademort

Now i,m really looking forward to it however long it takes. I,m informed by colleagues that the atmosphere is amazing on the day with music and thousands of people cheering you on. I will let you know how i get on with times etc when i,ve done it. Would obviously be a hell of an achievement to do it 6 times but what the hell i,m not travelling 12 hours in a coach just to go once up the bloody thing.

speedjunkie

Whats the max climbing you ever did in one day ?

I think your understimating this BIG TIME

Anyway good luck ! Would love to ride Huez some day

neeb

The trick will be to pace yourself properly and select the right gearing. In theory, with a big enough gear and enough time, anyone could climb the alpe six times at just about any wattage (even if it took several days). ideally you want to sustain a constant effort that is no more and no less than the maximum you can sustain for however long it takes you to do it... But best to err on the side of going too easy rather than too hard if you don't know what that is! If you still feel fresh after 3 ascents you can ramp up the pace for the final ones...

Training indoors on a turbo with high resistance and a powermeter would be a good way to get an idea of what you might be able to sustain.

ademort

neeb wrote:

The trick will be to pace yourself properly and select the right gearing. In theory, with a big enough gear and enough time, anyone could climb the alpe six times at just about any wattage (even if it took several days). ideally you want to sustain a constant effort that is no more and no less than the maximum you can sustain for however long it takes you to do it... But best to err on the side of going too easy rather than too hard if you don't know what that is! If you still feel fresh after 3 ascents you can ramp up the pace for the final ones...

Training indoors on a turbo with high resistance and a powermeter would be a good way to get an idea of what you might be able to sustain.

After reading all the posts and studying the graphs I,m going to start with a pace for 1 hour 20 minutes and see how that pans out. Really pleased i asked the original question. Am going to give it my best shot.

neeb

ademort wrote:

After reading all the posts and studying the graphs I,m going to start with a pace for 1 hour 20 minutes and see how that pans out. Really pleased i asked the original question. Am going to give it my best shot.

That could still be quite ambitious if you are doing it 6 times on the trot..

ugo.santalucia

neeb wrote:

ademort wrote:

After reading all the posts and studying the graphs I,m going to start with a pace for 1 hour 20 minutes and see how that pans out. Really pleased i asked the original question. Am going to give it my best shot.

That could still be quite ambitious if you are doing it 6 times on the trot..

Ambitious but realistic...

ozzzyosborn206

it will be hard for sure but something people are maybe forgetting it after each ascent you will have a good amount of time to recover, make sure you spin the legs on the way back down rather than just sitting there freewheeling. I think If you climb it 3/4 times then stop for lunch then go again you should get through it, get the biggest cassette you can