Please Leave Now!

ai_1

Ballysmate wrote:

orraloon wrote:

VTech wrote:

my tax pounds pay for there kids education whilst on top of that I pay for my own kids without the support of the tax pounds I am already paying.

The Londonite shiny faces were drumming up all sorts of fluff about the "subsidy" paid by "England" to Scotland. We may get some proper facts coming out now that the GE is out of the way, and if full fiscal autonomy indeed means changes to the amount and way Scotland spends its public finances then so be it.

But the point should be remembered that no university tuition fees etc are policies adopted by the democratically elected representatives in Edinburgh on how they wish to spend the money they have. The London parliament could choose to do the same, or as is the case, they choose to spend their money on other priorities. HS2 anyone? Crossrail?

Once Scotland is out of the way, I await with interest the bleating about how much subsidy goes to these ungrateful wretches from Newcastle, Manchester, Liverpool.... Northern England? Only good for (shale oil production technique word which BR screen won't permit, 8 letters starts with 'fr', has 'ack' in middle and ends in 'ing'') I seem to recall. Ai_1 has a valid argument.

No problem with Holyrood spending their money as they see fit. Prescriptions? Education? It is up to them.
Let them have FFA so that it is their own money they're spending. At least that will stop them bleating on about everything being the fault of the English.
I have no problem with regions getting varying amounts according to their needs.I don't expect wretches from anywhere to be grateful. It's the constant whine "It isnae fair!" from north of the border when they are getting rather a good deal that pi55es me off.
Come on Dave, scrap Barnett and give the porridge eaters FFA.[/quote]
Wow, that just drips with prejudiced, xenophobic, self righteous ignorance. Although you know that and are doing it on purpose so it's easy to disregard.

rick_chasey

VTech wrote:

to leave the UK is at a level that is shocking considering my tax pounds pay for there kids education whilst on top of that I pay for my own kids without the support of the tax pounds I am already paying.

...their kid's education.

Or their kids' education, depending on how many you were referring to.

Stevo_666

Ballysmate wrote:

I have no problem with regions getting varying amounts according to their needs.I don't expect wretches from anywhere to be grateful. It's the constant whine "It isnae fair!" from north of the border when they are getting rather a good deal that pi55es me off.
Come on Dave, scrap Barnett and give the porridge eaters FFA.

I think that last bit was described by someone else on here quite neatly as 'allowing the SNP to saw off the branch that they are sitting on'. They can then be different from English socialists in that they will run out of their own money rather than somebody else's

ballysmate

I read somewhere else that the last thing the SNP want is another referendum as they would be frightened of the result.
Another NO and that's that.
But they fear a YES even more when they would have to start paying their way.

frisbee

verylonglegs wrote:

Frank is right. Cameron should give them control of their own taxation and spending as soon as possible thus keeping them in the union and preventing the issue from dragging on imo.

I think the Scottish parliament does have tax raising powers. Like hell they will use it!

Stevo_666

Ballysmate wrote:

I read somewhere else that the last thing the SNP want is another referendum as they would be frightened of the result.
Another NO and that's that.
But they fear a YES even more when they would have to start paying their way.

But things like economic logic don't figure in the SNP leaderships mind - otherwise they would never have gone for the first referendum last year. It seemed to me that Salmond was so set on being independent from the evil English and so convinced he would win the referendum that (in true socialist fashion) he was just going to worry about the finances afterwards. Using assumptions like oil prices at $110/barrel to make the books balance...

If I were Scottish I'd be absolutely furious with him for such a stupidly cavalier attitude to Scotland's economic well being.

laurentian

I believe there were considerably fewer votes for the SNP in the General Election than "yes" votes in the Independence referendum.

Not sure what that tells us.

RideOnTime

What was the question, again.

Oh yes, Scotland, blah, blah, blah, Scotland.

Garry H

laurentian wrote:

I believe there were considerably fewer votes for the SNP in the General Election than "yes" votes in the Independence referendum.

Not sure what that tells us.

That 16 and 17 year olds can't vote in the General Election?

type:epyt

Rick Chasey wrote:

VTech wrote:

to leave the UK is at a level that is shocking considering my tax pounds pay for there kids education whilst on top of that I pay for my own kids without the support of the tax pounds I am already paying.

...their kid's education.

Or their kids' education, depending on how many you were referring to.

Thank god it isn't just me that can't abide being lectured by Vtech/titchy-rich when basic spelling seems to be beyond his comprehension. Luckily, he pays someone else to educate his offspring.

VTech

type:epyt wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

VTech wrote:

to leave the UK is at a level that is shocking considering my tax pounds pay for there kids education whilst on top of that I pay for my own kids without the support of the tax pounds I am already paying.

...their kid's education.

Or their kids' education, depending on how many you were referring to.

Thank god it isn't just me that can't abide being lectured by Vtech/titchy-rich when basic spelling seems to be beyond his comprehension. Luckily, he pays someone else to educate his offspring.

I often use the iphone and also make mistakes due to typing speed on a small screen.
Either way, it matters not because as you say, I'm loaded and don't need to worry about spelling, also my kids don't need to worry because they will never have to do a days work in there life (get that )

sloppyschleckonds

VTech wrote:

I'm loaded and don't need to worry about spelling, also my kids don't need to worry because they will never have to do a days work in there life (get that )

What are there aspirations in life?

ballysmate

VTech wrote:

type:epyt wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

VTech wrote:

to leave the UK is at a level that is shocking considering my tax pounds pay for there kids education whilst on top of that I pay for my own kids without the support of the tax pounds I am already paying.

...their kid's education.

Or their kids' education, depending on how many you were referring to.

Thank god it isn't just me that can't abide being lectured by Vtech/titchy-rich when basic spelling seems to be beyond his comprehension. Luckily, he pays someone else to educate his offspring.

I often use the iphone and also make mistakes due to typing speed on a small screen.
Either way, it matters not because as you say, I'm loaded and don't need to worry about spelling, also my kids don't need to worry because they will never have to do a days work in there life (get that )

I don't tend to come onto a cycling forum to check people's spelling and grammar. I, no doubt, fall foul of the grammar Gestapo. People usually manage to decipher the message in people's posts. So what, about some strange spelling. I'm not filthy rich and don't worry too much about spelling either.
VTech, I know you have worked hard and provided for your kids and I know that they may never have to do a day's work in their lives, but I hope they find something fulfilling.
I know you came from humble background and can be proud of your achievements, but the feeling you get when you look around and think, 'I earned that' or 'I worked for/achieved that' can't be underestimated. Don't deny your kids a sense of achievement.

RideOnTime

Ballysmate wrote:

VTech wrote:

type:epyt wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

VTech wrote:

to leave the UK is at a level that is shocking considering my tax pounds pay for there kids education whilst on top of that I pay for my own kids without the support of the tax pounds I am already paying.

...their kid's education.

Or their kids' education, depending on how many you were referring to.

Thank god it isn't just me that can't abide being lectured by Vtech/titchy-rich when basic spelling seems to be beyond his comprehension. Luckily, he pays someone else to educate his offspring.

I often use the iphone and also make mistakes due to typing speed on a small screen.
Either way, it matters not because as you say, I'm loaded and don't need to worry about spelling, also my kids don't need to worry because they will never have to do a days work in there life (get that )

I don't tend to come onto a cycling forum to check people's spelling and grammar. I, no doubt, fall foul of the grammar Gestapo. People usually manage to decipher the message in people's posts. So what, about some strange spelling. I'm not filthy rich and don't worry too much about spelling either.
VTech, I know you have worked hard and provided for your kids and I know that they may never have to do a day's work in their lives, but I hope they find something fulfilling.
I know you came from humble background and can be proud of your achievements, but the feeling you get when you look around and think, 'I earned that' or 'I worked for/achieved that' can't be underestimated. Don't deny your kids a sense of achievement.

hmm this thread was just a nice friendly pop at the Scots. Seem to be going off. oh well

golf anyone?

I don't actually like golf




back on topic

VTech

Ballysmate wrote:

VTech wrote:

type:epyt wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

VTech wrote:

to leave the UK is at a level that is shocking considering my tax pounds pay for there kids education whilst on top of that I pay for my own kids without the support of the tax pounds I am already paying.

...their kid's education.

Or their kids' education, depending on how many you were referring to.

Thank god it isn't just me that can't abide being lectured by Vtech/titchy-rich when basic spelling seems to be beyond his comprehension. Luckily, he pays someone else to educate his offspring.

I often use the iphone and also make mistakes due to typing speed on a small screen.
Either way, it matters not because as you say, I'm loaded and don't need to worry about spelling, also my kids don't need to worry because they will never have to do a days work in there life (get that )

I don't tend to come onto a cycling forum to check people's spelling and grammar. I, no doubt, fall foul of the grammar Gestapo. People usually manage to decipher the message in people's posts. So what, about some strange spelling. I'm not filthy rich and don't worry too much about spelling either.
VTech, I know you have worked hard and provided for your kids and I know that they may never have to do a day's work in their lives, but I hope they find something fulfilling.
I know you came from humble background and can be proud of your achievements, but the feeling you get when you look around and think, 'I earned that' or 'I worked for/achieved that' can't be underestimated. Don't deny your kids a sense of achievement.

My post was in jest because I honestly felt offended as to why someone would bring my children into a difference of opinion on an internet forum.
In reality I make my kids work, my eldest who went through state schooling and who has ADHD has just qualified as a motorsport graduate and works with me in his spare time and during weekends.
My 2 younger kids are still at school and both are made to clean their rooms and help at the workshop for pocket money.

I have never gone down the route of private schooling for them as I wanted them to mingle with your average people like I did, I don't give them everything they want but instead put a few quid aside for them so that they can get a car when they are 17 and maybe a deposit on a house when the time comes.

pinno

Back OT. :roll:

I don't hear any of this so called hatred of the English. What no one has mentioned is that Scotland is inherently more socialist than England.

Pensions are paid/calculated differently. The elderly don't have to sell their houses to pay for their care. We get free prescriptions and we don't pay tuition fees, tennants have more rights in Scotland than In England, to add a short list of differences.

Labour had a catastrophic campaign and never looked like a credible party. This is the main reason that the SNP got such a big vote. That and the fact that election after election, Scotland has always voted against the Tories. Remember, before this election, there were more Giant Panda's than Tory MP's in Scotland.

FWIW, I don't want nuclear subs in Faslane. I also think that given the threat of an EU exit, the SNP will counterbalance that and be against such an idiotic decision. Not that I think Cameron actually wants an exit.
If the UK votes Yes to an EU exit, you can bet your bottom dollar there will be another referendum and Scotland will be independent. If you think that it is a good thing that Scotland separates from England, then you are delusional. So have the choice - accept Scotland's wishes or head for an EU exit.

If the English/Welsh/Northern Irish (because it won't be the Scots) vote for an EU exit, then I very much hope that we get another referendum. I am sick to the back teeth of all the adverse reporting of the EU by the media, political parties and even the BBC. We (they) spend too much time looking across the pond instead of across the channel.

ballysmate

So if the UK votes to leave the EU, you want to take your ball home?
A long winded way of saying it, Pina.

pinno

Ballysmate wrote:

So if the UK votes to leave the EU, you want to take your ball home?
A long winded way of saying it, Pina.

Balls Bally, not ball.

Silly Old Hector

Not recent, but supports arguments used in the Referendum debate :

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/scotland-12288-union-public

If Scotland became Independant, under international marine law, the waters containing the oil fields of the Central and Northern North Sea would be Scottish, the Southern North Sea gas fields would be English. Not that you can rely on this for long, but wind and wave can help keep the lights on. Scotland has an energy and water surplus compared to England.

You also have to factor the subsidies that London sucks in...

hector88

pinarello001 wrote:

Back OT. :roll:

I don't hear any of this so called hatred of the English. What no one has mentioned is that Scotland is inherently more socialist than England.

That's because it doesn't exist. The SNP are very critical of Westminster and its politics but that shouldn't be conflated with a hatred of the English, unless you believe everything the Telegraph tells you. Which, very sadly, is clearly the case for a few of the members here

VTech

The problem is, ownership of land and sea areas doesn't mean you own whats in them.

An example of this would be a factory I own but that sits on a leasehold which is owned by a pension fund.
I own the building, I can do whatever legal business I choose in that factory but the land belongs to them, they have a rental for the land rates but no access to the profits I make within the factory sitting on their land.

Scotland sold rights many years ago and companies own those rights, people invested in the drilling and mining of deposits and Scotland can't simply take back ownership.

ddraver

no but they can take back ownership of the tax revenue, which is the point...

veronese68

RideOnTime wrote:

golf anyone?

I don't actually like golf

I don't like golf either, but now I can see certain attractions.

BelgianBeerGeek

Perhaps the Jocks will go their own way anyway. If the UK gets a referendum on the EU (and thats by no means certain) I reckon the majority of people will vote to leave. Scotland (and NI?) benefit from the EU greatly more than England. They might prefer to stay in the EU, which would mean leaving the union.

Where would that leave the referendum? If we voted for the UK to leave the EU, then the Scots voted to secede, would that invalidate the referendum?

ballysmate

pinarello001 wrote:

If the English/Welsh/Northern Irish (because it won't be the Scots) vote for an EU exit, then I very much hope that we get another referendum. I am sick to the back teeth of all the adverse reporting of the EU by the media, political parties and even the BBC. We (they) spend too much time looking across the pond instead of across the channel.

We do look across the Channel and don't necessarily like what we see. The EU is committed to further political and economic integration. Do we want that?
We look at PIGS and see Germany hemorrhaging money to keep the project afloat. Do we want to be in the same position? Nevermind the deceit and mismanagement that was evident when the Euro was launched.
The Executive branch, the Commission isn't readily accountable to EU citizens and appears to be staffed by failed politicians. I know you are an admirer of Neil Kinnock, and have stated such :roll: but Vice President of the EU Commission? FFS!!!
Then there is the matter of the auditors not being able to sign off the accounts for years...
There are 28 member states of various states of economic/social development. What chance is there that we will all be in harmony and share the same desires and needs? Here in the UK, 45% of one country have just voted to say they are out of step with the other 3.
And I write this from the point of view of someone who isn't certain which way they will vote in any referendum.
Wait til a proper Eurosceptic comes along...

mr_goo

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Perhaps the Jocks will go their own way anyway. If the UK gets a referendum on the EU (and thats by no means certain) I reckon the majority of people will vote to leave. Scotland (and NI?) benefit from the EU greatly more than England. They might prefer to stay in the EU, which would mean leaving the union.

Where would that leave the referendum? If we voted for the UK to leave the EU, then the Scots voted to secede, would that invalidate the referendum?

Hold the front page. If the UK does get an In/Out referendum and it goes OUT. Then I think Cornwall may want independence too. I went to Truro on Monday and their new Park and Ride scheme is funded by Brussels. Which leads me to think that their is a Celtic link to the SW region. Also begs the question, Why are county councils having to apply to Brussels, Belgium (foreign country), for money to improve infrastructure? Surely this is an example of the UK not being in total control of its finances and its ability to fund its own projects. Perhaps the UK should apply to the EU for the HS2 rail link. And indeed if the Scottish people want high speed rail between its major conurbations then they too should go to the EU. Every other country in Europe does. Polands' entire new motorway network was indirectly paid for by us.

ai_1

Ballysmate wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

If the English/Welsh/Northern Irish (because it won't be the Scots) vote for an EU exit, then I very much hope that we get another referendum. I am sick to the back teeth of all the adverse reporting of the EU by the media, political parties and even the BBC. We (they) spend too much time looking across the pond instead of across the channel.

We do look across the Channel and don't necessarily like what we see. The EU is committed to further political and economic integration. Do we want that?
We look at PIGS and see Germany hemorrhaging money to keep the project afloat. Do we want to be in the same position? Nevermind the deceit and mismanagement that was evident when the Euro was launched.
The Executive branch, the Commission isn't readily accountable to EU citizens and appears to be staffed by failed politicians. I know you are an admirer of Neil Kinnock, and have stated such :roll: but Vice President of the EU Commission? FFS!!!
Then there is the matter of the auditors not being able to sign off the accounts for years...
There are 28 member states of various states of economic/social development. What chance is there that we will all be in harmony and share the same desires and needs? Here in the UK, 45% of one country have just voted to say they are out of step with the other 3.
And I write this from the point of view of someone who isn't certain which way they will vote in any referendum.
Wait til a proper Eurosceptic comes along...

The EU has a miriad of faults but I still think integration is generally preferable. However, that's slightly beside the point. I suspect an EU referendum in the UK might go a similar route to the Scottish independence referendum. i.e. Many would like the idea and it may poll well but at the last minute fear would set in and many would swing back to the status quo. As an outsider, I think independent states all being EU members is the best long term situation as opposed to 3 or 4 entities which regard themselves as separate but all part of the UK and the UK being the EU member. It seems like an unnecessary layer of governance. I realise it's not that simple but seems the cleaner arrangement.
Then again I think patriotism is a ridiculous idea so maybe I just don't get it!

pinno

Mr Goo wrote:

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Perhaps...referendum?

...And indeed if the Scottish people want high speed rail between its major conurbations then they too should go to the EU.

What a good idea.

I'm off to Holyrood...

ballysmate

Hang on a minute, Goo. Does the EU generate any money? Member states pay in to the coffers and this is the money that is used to finance such projects. They grant us some of our own money don't they?

mr_goo

pinarello001 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Perhaps...referendum?

...And indeed if the Scottish people want high speed rail between its major conurbations then they too should go to the EU.

What a good idea.

I'm off to Holyrood...

Sarcasm?