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Rebellin not allowed at the Giro

frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
edited May 2015 in Pro race
43 year old Rebellin would like to race the Giro yet he hasn't been selected by his team. In reality, the Giro organizers have told the team he is not welcome.

Rebellin even went in person to the RCS head quarters to try and get a spot in the race but they were not having it.

I don't think anyone really likes Rebellin so this decision will be popular but at the same time I am not really sure they can apply those sorts of 'bans'. You can understand why he is not wanted but at the same time it seems that dopers get pretty different treatments. They should just have a rule whereby anyone found guilty of a doping infraction for substances x, y, z will nit be allowed to participate.

Rebellin tested in 2008 which is a long time ago.
Contador is the Greatest
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  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    If they didn't want Rebellin they shouldn't have invited his team. Have they said if they're alright with Schumacher?
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,353 Lives Here
    Curious one Rebellin.

    Everyone's convinced the guy's still juiced up.

    Separately everyone says the advantage doping gives is much smaller than it used to be, and testing is better.

    Which begs the question, what is he doping with, and how is getting away with it? If he is at all?

    Doesn't add up to me.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,491
    The_Boy wrote:
    If they didn't want Rebellin they shouldn't have invited his team. Have they said if they're alright with Schumacher?
    No, they've banned him too. This was reported a couple of months BTW.

    A race organiser granting wildcards is much like a nightclub doorman. Regulars and his mates get in no questions asked, but a new group of lads might only be allowed in if they put their pilled-up mate into a taxi first. And if they don't they're quite welcome to try their luck at that dodgy turkish place down the road.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,491
    Separately everyone says the advantage doping gives is much smaller than it used to be, and testing is better.

    Which begs the question, what is he doping with, and how is getting away with it? If he is at all?
    He's got nothing to lose, so he can take more risks than others. If he gets busted it's only going to bring his retirement forward a few months and a passport case won't be resolved quickly. Meanwhile he's got a tax bill to pay.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    43 year old Rebellin.
    Rebellin tested in 2008 which is a long time ago.
    Is it really. :roll:
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    deejay wrote:
    43 year old Rebellin.
    Rebellin tested in 2008 which is a long time ago.
    Is it really. :roll:

    Compared to 2010, it is.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • thomthomthomthom Posts: 3,574
    The_Boy wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    43 year old Rebellin.
    Rebellin tested in 2008 which is a long time ago.
    Is it really. :roll:

    Compared to 2010, it is.

    k5UAIG5.gif
  • LeePatonLeePaton Posts: 353
    Buuuuuuuuuuuuurn.

    But really if the UCI says he's okay then the Giro should have no say at all... same with all old dopers.
    It's not so much about winning, I just hate losing.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,353 Lives Here
    RichN95 wrote:
    Separately everyone says the advantage doping gives is much smaller than it used to be, and testing is better.

    Which begs the question, what is he doping with, and how is getting away with it? If he is at all?
    He's got nothing to lose, so he can take more risks than others. If he gets busted it's only going to bring his retirement forward a few months and a passport case won't be resolved quickly. Meanwhile he's got a tax bill to pay.

    Sure but 7 years and no positives? Says something.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,491
    Sure but 7 years and no positives?
    Well he was on a Continental team until 2013. So probably sod all testing then - certainly not passport. And I doubt he gets much out of competition testing now. He can take two hits for missing tests if need be.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95 wrote:
    Separately everyone says the advantage doping gives is much smaller than it used to be, and testing is better.

    Which begs the question, what is he doping with, and how is getting away with it? If he is at all?
    He's got nothing to lose, so he can take more risks than others. If he gets busted it's only going to bring his retirement forward a few months and a passport case won't be resolved quickly. Meanwhile he's got a tax bill to pay.

    Sure but 7 years and no positives? Says something.

    I like it (That was an Armstrong reference wasn't it?)
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 57,353 Lives Here
    It's more I hear a lot of chat about a cleaner peloton with tests that really narrow the window for doping, and thus doping doesn't add all that much value.

    Then I hear everyone pointing the finger at Rebellin as a sure fire obvious doping case, gaining a lot from doping, yet he's managed to avoid testing positive for 7 years.

    So if he can evade it for that long, presumably others can, right?

    In which case, it's not all that clean after all.

    I just see a bit of incongruity with accepting both statements as fact, that's all. Figured that was worth exploring.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,491
    Then I hear everyone pointing the finger at Rebellin as a sure fire obvious doping case, gaining a lot from doping, yet he's managed to avoid testing positive for 7 years.
    But it's not seven years. He didn't return to a level with UCI testing until 2013. So it's really only two and a bit years. And he's not a major racer, so he probably doesn't get a whole lot of OOC tests.

    And maybe he is actually clean - but if you were playing Pro Doping Pundit, a 43 year old with a record is going to be a five star pick.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    The_Boy wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    43 year old Rebellin.
    Rebellin tested in 2008 which is a long time ago.
    Is it really. :roll:
    Compared to 2010, it is.
    So how does that compare with 2015, can you say he is now clean. ??
    IMO, it wasn't just experience that won the TOT stage 3 as I think he still has the after effects still in his body as we surmise that Chris Horner could have also.
    The result shamed Italy. It was not only the test itself — he became its first Italian athlete to ever be stripped of an Olympic medal. The sour taste remains.
    RCS Sport cycling director, Vegni, told VeloNews in January that Rebellin and Schumacher, who tested positive for EPO after two stage wins in the 2008 Tour de France, were riders who would cause controversy.

    “I’d never say that they can’t come or that I don’t want them, but I’d like to have a Giro start without riders who stir controversy,” Vegni said.
    As far as I'm concerned, he (and others) should have had a Life Ban.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    RichN95 wrote:
    Separately everyone says the advantage doping gives is much smaller than it used to be, and testing is better.

    Which begs the question, what is he doping with, and how is getting away with it? If he is at all?
    He's got nothing to lose, so he can take more risks than others. If he gets busted it's only going to bring his retirement forward a few months and a passport case won't be resolved quickly. Meanwhile he's got a tax bill to pay.

    Sure but 7 years and no positives? Says something.

    Not really. It's clear that you have to be a muppet to get busted.

    Here's a nice little statement from him. Make of it what you will.

    http://www.cyclingquotes.com/news/rebel ... _pays_off/
  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    RichN95 wrote:
    The_Boy wrote:
    If they didn't want Rebellin they shouldn't have invited his team. Have they said if they're alright with Schumacher?
    No, they've banned him too. This was reported a couple of months BTW.

    A race organiser granting wildcards is much like a nightclub doorman. Regulars and his mates get in no questions asked, but a new group of lads might only be allowed in if they put their pilled-up mate into a taxi first. And if they don't they're quite welcome to try their luck at that dodgy turkish place down the road.

    Good to hear. So why are we discussing this now - I assume his agent/PR still thinks he can get them to change their mind?

    I largely agree on the last part, but I still think it's a bit rich to invite a team but tell them "not those two".
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    deejay wrote:
    The_Boy wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    43 year old Rebellin.
    Rebellin tested in 2008 which is a long time ago.
    Is it really. :roll:
    Compared to 2010, it is.
    So how does that compare with 2015, can you say he is now clean. ??

    Was a cheeky Contador reference. No deeper meaning to it than that ;).
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • sheffsimonsheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    I have no problem with Rebellin not being allowed at the Giro. He's an unrepentant old doper, so WGAF.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,491
    Rebellin hasn't started the Giro since 2008 and hasn't finished it since 2000. So no-one's missing out much.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,450
    why don't the UCI just put in a clause saying after a doping ban you can't race in any Grand Tours for a further x years or specify the level of races like one day classics they can't race in either.

    Creates a further deterrent from doping
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,491
    sherer wrote:
    why don't the UCI just put in a clause saying after a doping ban you can't race in any Grand Tours for a further x years or specify the level of races like one day classics they can't race in either.
    Because it would be in contravention of the WADA code.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 7,311
    On the face of it this smacks of double standards when other dopers have been welcomed back - even ones that have denied and continue to deny. However if the Giro doesn't want him there and his team is a discretionary pick then it's their shout. Rebellin had the option to do a David Millar when he was caught, he didn't, if race organisers want to judge him on that or perhaps on their suspicions that he is still on the juice that is their perogative. Unless they are acting on information received I think I'd have made a different decision in their place but there is no right for a rider to ride the Giro in these circumstances - a wild card is there because they bring something the organisers want to the race and those that miss out do so because they don't or in this case he'd bring something to the race the organisers don't want.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • dolan_driverdolan_driver Posts: 831
    The thing is, there is a double-standard in operation here. Valverde gets to ride the Tour while Rebellin doesn't get to do the Giro. Both are unrepentant dopers who are allegedly riding cleanly these days. If Rebellin doesn't ride, neither should Hairplugs.

    DD.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,491
    The thing is, there is a double-standard in operation here. Valverde gets to ride the Tour while Rebellin doesn't get to do the Giro. Both are unrepentant dopers who are allegedly riding cleanly these days. If Rebellin doesn't ride, neither should Hairplugs.

    DD.
    No, there's no double standards.

    Valverde rides for a World Tour team and World Tour races such the Giro and Tour are obliged to include all those teams regardless who rides for them.
    Rebellin, however, rides for a Pro Continetal team which needs to be invited - allowing the organisers to suggest circumstances which would make an application more appealing.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TheBigBeanTheBigBean Posts: 14,057

    Everyone's convinced the guy's still juiced up.

    Separately everyone says the advantage doping gives is much smaller than it used to be, and testing is better.

    This is just the Great BR Contradiction.

    Valverde, Contador etc are all still doping and can only win because of it, but Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish, [insert favourite rider], etc, are the cleanest riders ever because the risk and rewards of doping in today's super clean era simply don't pay off.
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    TheBigBean wrote:

    Everyone's convinced the guy's still juiced up.

    Separately everyone says the advantage doping gives is much smaller than it used to be, and testing is better.

    This is just the Great BR Contradiction.

    Valverde, Contador etc are all still doping and can only win because of it, but Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish, [insert favourite rider], etc, are the cleanest riders ever because the risk and rewards of doping in today's super clean era simply don't pay off.

    Strawman alert! Isn't the rough consensus here that Wiggins, Froome and Cavendish can win because riders like Valverde and Contador are no longer doping?

    My objection is that both are now competing fairly but still refuse to admit anything whatsoever.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • dolan_driverdolan_driver Posts: 831
    RichN95 wrote:
    The thing is, there is a double-standard in operation here. Valverde gets to ride the Tour while Rebellin doesn't get to do the Giro. Both are unrepentant dopers who are allegedly riding cleanly these days. If Rebellin doesn't ride, neither should Hairplugs.

    DD.
    No, there's no double standards.

    Valverde rides for a World Tour team and World Tour races such the Giro and Tour are obliged to include all those teams regardless who rides for them.
    Rebellin, however, rides for a Pro Continetal team which needs to be invited - allowing the organisers to suggest circumstances which would make an application more appealing.

    The status of one's team shouldn't come into it. Both riders are unrepentant dopers yet one can ride when and where he likes and is feted as a great winner while the other is treated like a pariah. Either both can ride all races their team enter or both should be accepted only on the race organiser's say-so. There is one rule for Valverde and another for Rebellin.

    Rebellin's performance in Turkey is getting a lukewarm reception from the Eurosport commentary team at the moment while Valverde's wins last week were praised by the same broadcaster. What is the difference between the two riders? Very little, from what I can see.

    DD.
  • sherersherer Posts: 2,450
    RichN95 wrote:
    The thing is, there is a double-standard in operation here. Valverde gets to ride the Tour while Rebellin doesn't get to do the Giro. Both are unrepentant dopers who are allegedly riding cleanly these days. If Rebellin doesn't ride, neither should Hairplugs.

    DD.
    No, there's no double standards.

    Valverde rides for a World Tour team and World Tour races such the Giro and Tour are obliged to include all those teams regardless who rides for them.
    Rebellin, however, rides for a Pro Continetal team which needs to be invited - allowing the organisers to suggest circumstances which would make an application more appealing.

    The status of one's team shouldn't come into it. Both riders are unrepentant dopers yet one can ride when and where he likes and is feted as a great winner while the other is treated like a pariah. Either both can ride all races their team enter or both should be accepted only on the race organiser's say-so. There is one rule for Valverde and another for Rebellin.

    Rebellin's performance in Turkey is getting a lukewarm reception from the Eurosport commentary team at the moment while Valverde's wins last week were praised by the same broadcaster. What is the difference between the two riders? Very little, from what I can see.

    DD.

    Very good point, you have to wonder if they could only win by doping in the past what has changed so they can still win.

    I've said before surely if you dope for years your body as at an elevated level because of the doping that won't just go away and level the playing field post ban.

    Are banned riders still tested as well ? Why not juice up for 18 months and then when you go back in the testing pool with 6 months before your first race stop them ?
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 11,191
    RichN95 wrote:
    The thing is, there is a double-standard in operation here. Valverde gets to ride the Tour while Rebellin doesn't get to do the Giro. Both are unrepentant dopers who are allegedly riding cleanly these days. If Rebellin doesn't ride, neither should Hairplugs.

    DD.
    No, there's no double standards.

    Valverde rides for a World Tour team and World Tour races such the Giro and Tour are obliged to include all those teams regardless who rides for them.
    Rebellin, however, rides for a Pro Continetal team which needs to be invited - allowing the organisers to suggest circumstances which would make an application more appealing.

    Hmmmm....

    The fact that both Vini-Fantinis have invites (the old one, now SouthEast Pro Cycling, earlier home of Di Luca, Rabottini and Santambrogio) and the new one (lead by Mantova suspect, but not formally charged yet, Cunego) suggest that there's still some blind-eye turning going on when it suits them.

    The Giro official website proudly states:

    "There will also be four previous winners of Giro d'Italia at the start: Damiano Cunego (2004), Ivan Basso (2006 and 2010), Alberto Contador (2008) and Ryder Hesjedal (2012)."

    Cunego is, of course, the odd one out, as the only one of the four not to either serve a suspension or admit doping.... yet.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    RichN95 wrote:
    The thing is, there is a double-standard in operation here. Valverde gets to ride the Tour while Rebellin doesn't get to do the Giro. Both are unrepentant dopers who are allegedly riding cleanly these days. If Rebellin doesn't ride, neither should Hairplugs.

    DD.
    No, there's no double standards.

    Valverde rides for a World Tour team and World Tour races such the Giro and Tour are obliged to include all those teams regardless who rides for them.
    Rebellin, however, rides for a Pro Continetal team which needs to be invited - allowing the organisers to suggest circumstances which would make an application more appealing.

    Hmmmm....

    The fact that both Vini-Fantinis have invites (the old one, now SouthEast Pro Cycling, earlier home of Di Luca, Rabottini and Santambrogio) and the new one (lead by Mantova suspect, but not formally charged yet, Cunego) suggest that there's still some blind-eye turning going on when it suits them.

    The Giro official website proudly states:

    "There will also be four previous winners of Giro d'Italia at the start: Damiano Cunego (2004), Ivan Basso (2006 and 2010), Alberto Contador (2008) and Ryder Hesjedal (2012)."

    Cunego is, of course, the odd one out, as the only one of the four not to either serve a suspension or admit doping.... yet.


    Can we not discount Cunego from Mantova? My understanding is that he's guilty of being a cyclist who knows some other cyclists and talks to them on the phone. Also, hasn't this been going on for about 5 years without any charges being laid?

    And he has admitted doping to his Giro win, I think. Albiet in a Vaughters type of a way.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
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