Upgrade wheels, go tubeless?

ugo.santalucia

JoostG wrote:

and they remain longer round.

I have noticed that too... but I can't explain why, other than I am using a wide rim, hence the tyre should collapse less under load... not sure why tubeless should help there... :roll:

lostboysaint

Just as a matter of interest, and again based on MTB experience - has anyone tried setting up a tyre that ISN'T tubeless specific and how's that gone? Again I suspect the higher air pressures would mean it would be difficult to stop leaks from sidewalls but it would be good to know whether you could just whack some tape and valves on, pop some sealant in and inflate. (I'm in love with my Pro4s and would be very pleased to run them tubeless.)

ugo.santalucia

lostboysaint wrote:

Just as a matter of interest, and again based on MTB experience - has anyone tried setting up a tyre that ISN'T tubeless specific and how's that gone? Again I suspect the higher air pressures would mean it would be difficult to stop leaks from sidewalls but it would be good to know whether you could just whack some tape and valves on, pop some sealant in and inflate. (I'm in love with my Pro4s and would be very pleased to run them tubeless.)

Only CX tyres and only at low pressure. There is a significant amount of literature of hot heads fitting conventional clinchers, which did pop out of the rim at pressure over 90 PSI.

Accepted wisdom is that up to 50-60 PSI almost anything can be made tubeless, which rules out road tyres

ddraver

me in the other tubeless thread wrote:

ok, my thoughts

I am 105kg, running Schwalbe One, 25c on Fulcrum Racing 3's - 2 way fit.

Tubed
I ran about 100-110psi in them for general fast club running but would drop that to 95-100psi for longer, slower winter rides where I wanted a bit more comfort. The lowest I ever ran them was 85psi (testing them for RVV). I liked them! For the past 2 years i was running them on Ksyrium Elites until the rims wore out on them. I had 2 months or so running them tubed on the new wheels

I thought they ran pretty well, puncture resistance was acceptable for a tyre of that sort on Dutch Bike paths and even UK country lanes. They were light enough to give the bike a good bit of zip. They were nt so good for commuting but they arent supposed to be...

Tubeless
First ride i went for 100psi which was horrible. I steadily dropped the tyre pressure and last weekend i did a 130km ride with them at 85psi. This was a good pressure for comfort I think and they elt a bt more like a normal tyre but I might try 75psi for RVV as there is no issue with Pinch flats now.

Although I have not had a puncture yet, I did not get that many with the old set up anyway. To be honest I think they feel less good to ride than the tubed set up and I don't think I would recommend someone buying new wheels in holland to go for a heavier, more expensive wheelset for Dutch bike path riding - I don't really think there are enough benefits.

Where I think they would be fantastic is under a Salsa/Ibis type "all road" (or whatever you call it) bike set up for winter riding/CX/Gravel paths/stony, muddy UK country paths etc with discs where you could use a wide tyre at a relatively low pressure for the off road, but still high enough to not drag on the road. This would eliminate the possibility of stone puncture or pinches and make a good "adventure" bike. however, the slight issue with that is that there arent any tyres available that would fit that bill really (I don't reckon Schwalbe Ones 28c would cut it really...)

So, I'm not disappointed I run them, but to be honest, I wouldnt tell someone who rides on good roads to go tubeless. If i end up back in the UK (likely) I would be interested to see what they re like on Cornish country lanes which are commonly covered in cow crap/sticks/stones etc and I'm interested to see what they will be like on the flat cobbled sections at RVV where I will be able to run low pressures for my someone my size.

Edit - tl:dr? Watch the GCN vid, I agree almost completely with that guy...

Only thing to add is that they were fantasic at Flanders this year. The Fulcrum wheels less so...

LBS - the tyre bead and such need to be beefed up a bit to run road tubeless at high enough pressure so you can't bodge it so easily

OJS

I have decided to get a pair of wheels from Cycle Clinic.

I was pretty much sold on tubeless too, simply because of having them on my MTB. However, I have major concerns now after speaking to Strada, who were "claiming" do not go tubeless on the road under any circumstances - as the spoke tension falls too much after mounting the tyre.

Now, maybe I have been scare-mongered but I'm not keen on the idea of wheel failure. Cycle Clinic did say they would rather fit the tyres there and check the tensions after, but I don't want to have to re-check them or have them re-checked every time I change the tyre. Secondly this makes me even more worried about trying the Archetype rim tubeless (when it is "technically" not tubeless ready).

So - is tubeless on the road this difficult - or is it safe to just get the Archetypes and fit the tubeless myself and get on with it?

By the way Cycle Clinic - you have been very helpful and I will be purchasing from you whichever way I finally decide to go - just looking for some final re-assurance!

Cheers

drlodge

Road tubeless isn't difficult, but I would be hesistant to use a non-tubeless ready rim like the Archetype. Ugo's article on the RR440 includes the following statement at the end

"As it is the case for many light rims, once a pair of Schwalbe ONE tubeless are mounted and inflated, the tension drops about 15%, so they need to be slightly overbuilt"

So as long as the wheel builder knows this, he just needs to "over build" the wheels initially to allow for the spoke tension drop once tyres are fitted.

ugo.santalucia

OJS wrote:

I have decided to get a pair of wheels from Cycle Clinic.

I was pretty much sold on tubeless too, simply because of having them on my MTB. However, I have major concerns now after speaking to Strada, who were "claiming" do not go tubeless on the road under any circumstances - as the spoke tension falls too much after mounting the tyre.

Now, maybe I have been scare-mongered but I'm not keen on the idea of wheel failure. Cycle Clinic did say they would rather fit the tyres there and check the tensions after, but I don't want to have to re-check them or have them re-checked every time I change the tyre. Secondly this makes me even more worried about trying the Archetype rim tubeless (when it is "technically" not tubeless ready).

So - is tubeless on the road this difficult - or is it safe to just get the Archetypes and fit the tubeless myself and get on with it?

By the way Cycle Clinic - you have been very helpful and I will be purchasing from you whichever way I finally decide to go - just looking for some final re-assurance!

Cheers

Tension does fall about 10-20% depending on the rim... the rim has to be built on its very limit or just over.
However tension does drop even with clincher tyres, although marginally less.

In other words, it's nothing new

ddraver

hmmm, that could explain why half the spokes on my Racing 3s have all come undone...

ugo.santalucia

ddraver wrote:

hmmm, that could explain why half the spokes on my Racing 3s have all come undone...

I don't think so... your wheel is triplet laced, which means the tensions are the same on the drive side Vs non drive side... so you don't need a hell of a lot of tension to avoid spokes coming loose. More likely the building tension was too low to start with or you are too heavy for them.
If they are the two way fit tubeless ready, they should be fine with tubeless tyres

ddraver

Suspected as much...

ugo.santalucia

To shed some light on the matter, I have done a bit of tyre fitting and spoke tension measuring and here are the results

http://whosatthewheel.com/2015/04/26/ro ... e-tension/