UKIP manifesto help please
Comments
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Tangled Metal wrote:I think there was another thread that quoted some data about Brits abroad do better out of EU states than non-Brits do in the UK. Basically the balance of state aid from expat Brits against expat non-British in the UK is in the Brit's favour. If you get my drift.
...ahem... 8)We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Aaah! That is a "shush!" then I take it? Doesn't fit in with UKIPers so keep schtumm!ddraver wrote:Tangled Metal wrote:I think there was another thread that quoted some data about Brits abroad do better out of EU states than non-Brits do in the UK. Basically the balance of state aid from expat Brits against expat non-British in the UK is in the Brit's favour. If you get my drift.
...ahem... 8)0 -
team47b wrote:VTech wrote:Make it illegal to bank outside of your home residence.
So I should remove my money from the UK, and having taken my money out of the UK I would then not have to pay the UK any tax either, gets my vote
Without wanting to argue with you, the reason Portugal is in such a terrible state is the ability for the government to obtain fair tax from residents. There are huge amounts of companies in Portugal that work under the radar and don't pay tax which is why the relevant institutes rated the country so lowly, based on the ability for the government to raise the money needed to run the country and pay back debt.
At no point have I suggested that being in the EU is bad for us, I don't know enough about the true figures, I wonder if anyone really does ?
Do people think that if we were not in the EU, the member states would stop buying from us ?
I would honestly welcome anyones thoughts on how a modern government would reduce and pay off national debt within the current system.
As home owners, many members of this forum have a similar task but on a smaller scale.
We have a debt, lets call it £200,000 and agree to pay it off over 25 years, we know without doubt that the debt needs to be paid off and some will chose to pay the debt off early.
Some will pay off at the agreed amount.
Some will pay a bit off then loan more against it.
Some will loan more against it and end up losing it.Living MY dream.0 -
Someone using statistics to skew a point in their favour?Tangled Metal wrote:You quoted the higher figure because it suited your points more.
That would never happen in an election. No siree.
Try watching the debate tonight on the BBC to see how it is done properly.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I have a friend at my home today, he is also my bank manager and I just asked him what would happen if I filled out a loan application and where it asked for revenues on the books for the coming year (we have an order book of promised work) and I wrote down projected or if I wrote down figures based on last years figures I would in a legal sense be committing deception because you can legally only write down what you are contracted for as an extra to what you have or are in the middle of doing.
So, in business terms it is illegal to base revenue on predictions (kind of backs up my thoughts and how I think is the right way to operate).
Of course I realise in business that we use projections all the time, but NEVER use it as a base for your spending capability.Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Even ignoring the rebate you're out by a factor of 5.
As a 'business man' that shouldn't be overlooked, no?
It depends on how you work out the figures.
I have just checked the site: http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_de ... ng_30.html
This as I took the figure to be £43.4b is the amount central government pay with the remaining through local government (council tax)
So hands up, I'm wrong to a point but also right to a point although I will accept more on the wrong side.
Anyway, as my main point, do you argue that what I have written about the fix we need is even remotely wrong ?
What fix?
You know what they say. Sh!t in, sh!t out.0 -
VTech wrote:I have a friend at my home today, he is also my bank manager and I just asked him what would happen if I filled out a loan application and where it asked for revenues on the books for the coming year (we have an order book of promised work) and I wrote down projected or if I wrote down figures based on last years figures I would in a legal sense be committing deception because you can legally only write down what you are contracted for as an extra to what you have or are in the middle of doing.
So, in business terms it is illegal to base revenue on predictions (kind of backs up my thoughts and how I think is the right way to operate).
Of course I realise in business that we use projections all the time, but NEVER use it as a base for your spending capability.
Personal finance is different to macro economics.
Learn the difference.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:VTech wrote:I have a friend at my home today, he is also my bank manager and I just asked him what would happen if I filled out a loan application and where it asked for revenues on the books for the coming year (we have an order book of promised work) and I wrote down projected or if I wrote down figures based on last years figures I would in a legal sense be committing deception because you can legally only write down what you are contracted for as an extra to what you have or are in the middle of doing.
So, in business terms it is illegal to base revenue on predictions (kind of backs up my thoughts and how I think is the right way to operate).
Of course I realise in business that we use projections all the time, but NEVER use it as a base for your spending capability.
Personal finance is different to macro economics.
Learn the difference.
I have learnt the difference, I've also acted on it which is why I am wealthier than England.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kin ... ional_debtletap73 wrote:VTech wrote:Also, it is MORE (before rebates) than we spend on either Education, Transport and Defence !
From 2013:
Gross EU contribution - £14 billion
UK Education spend - £87 billion
UK Transport spend - £18.8 billion
UK Defence spend - £42.2 billion
Read the above link.Living MY dream.0 -
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Rick Chasey wrote:
Maybe its just as funny as a moderator who uses his position to try and threaten members of the forum like you have with me. You have threatened me several times on this forum if you disagree with me yet you have tried to incite issues with me on the forum several times yourself. Double standards.
Anyway, my post is not funny, its accurate. I, along with countless forum members here are on paper and in % terms wealthier than the country they reside in. I don't owe 90% of what I make in a year.
Anyone on this forum who has paid their mortgage off and doesn't owe large debts is in fact in a similar position.
I have offered good points in this thread and a couple, including you have only participated to try and discredit my points which really is the funny side of this.
What I initially wrote is what needs to happen, there is no disputing that.
Im still full of love for you though 8)Living MY dream.0 -
if we were to stay in the EU, then i think we should join the euro, at the moment, we pay to join a club where 1/2 our trade is but then have little influence on how it is run.
Germany is an economic power house to rival any and if they think its a good idea, why isnt it for us?
otherwise we should leave, our constant negativity towards euro land does no one any good.0 -
mamba80 wrote:if we were to stay in the EU, then i think we should join the euro, at the moment, we pay to join a club where 1/2 our trade is but then have little influence on how it is run.
Germany is an economic power house to rival any and if they think its a good idea, why isnt it for us?
otherwise we should leave, our constant negativity towards euro land does no one any good.
Good points, I do think that having the pound is an easier way out of it if that is the end game but I don't think it is the end game. The problem is, we have a circular of MP's who all know the answers to fix the problems we have but won't do it because it won't benefit them and by that I mean, the people won't put up with it.
We can't afford chosen unemployment, we can't afford a health system for a country growing massively, we can't afford pensions for people living longer, we can't afford roads when more cars are using them, we can't afford the interest to pay for the debts we are taking on.
Its laughable and sad, my honest advice to anyone as I have said before is to look after yourself, be careful in what you spend and don't think you will ever be looked after in old age. It isn't going to happen.
People of my age and younger have no excuse because we have known for years that problems were snowballing but for anyone here in their 60's+ I feel for them because they were lied too and by the time they found out, they were already too late to do anything about it.Living MY dream.0 -
If only us people over sixty had been as clever as you and your generation and managed to have the foresight to provide for ourselves we could have retired at your age and not had to work beyond forty five!
Where do you think all the money went? (Rhetorical question) my isetta is a 300cc bike0 -
team47b wrote:If only us people over sixty had been as clever as you and your generation and managed to have the foresight to provide for ourselves we could have retired at your age and not had to work beyond forty five!
Where do you think all the money went? (Rhetorical question)
Your persistence in wanting to argue with me is actually in incredibly poor taste because unless you are the only person in the world who isn't aware of the crisis pensioners are suffering, your actually making a mockery of people who are going to suffer many years of "scraping by" on a pittance.
People in their 60's and above have been lied too, they were told that if they paid into a government pension pot they would be safe and YES, I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT SOME PEOPLE REACTED IN TIME TO SOLVE THE ISSUES FOR THEMSELVES) but the fact is that for every pensioner who managed to sort themselves out, there are countless others who are going to struggle.
Would you quote your statement to friends of people who have died through the winter because they couldn't afford the heating bill and froze to death in their own home ?
This is happening, right here, right now in the UK and its wrong.
As I said, people in my generation and younger will have no excuse because there is enough data to show that if you don't sort yourself out, your in for a tough old age. This was not the case for people in my parents and grand parents generations.Living MY dream.0 -
Woah Vtech.
If you are in credit, you are wealthier than England. I am not in credit but I am still wealthier than England. However, the potential capacity of my future earnings and my assets won't cover the deficit so even if asked politely, I am not going to take on the UK debt. Sorry.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
You need to read about the Common Fisheries Policy, to realise that the UK got f***ed over right from the start of joining the old EEC. Our fishing industry is decimated and reduced in the main to smaller inshore fishing vessels. Whereas the Spanish fleet has been expanded with a modern fleet of industrial sized trawlers all funded by the European Fisheries Fund (EU), which is what the UK as a nett contributor pays into. The UK was ordered to reduce its fishing fleet by 19% in 1992 and by a further 40% in 1996. We are now importing seafood to the tune of £2.66bn per year, much of which is landed by the Spanish Armada of fishing vessels operating in in UK territorial waters.
Out of EU. Vote UKIP.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Mr Goo wrote:You need to read about the Common Fisheries Policy, to realise that the UK got f***ed over right from the start of joining the old EEC. Our fishing industry is decimated and reduced in the main to smaller inshore fishing vessels. Whereas the Spanish fleet has been expanded with a modern fleet of industrial sized trawlers all funded by the European Fisheries Fund (EU), which is what the UK as a nett contributor pays into. The UK was ordered to reduce its fishing fleet by 19% in 1992 and by a further 40% in 1996. We are now importing seafood to the tune of £2.66bn per year, much of which is landed by the Spanish Armada of fishing vessels operating in in UK territorial waters.
Out of EU. Vote UKIP.
So the EU/EEC screwed over our fishing fleet.... but did they really?
We agreed these changes, we didnt have too and what dark deals were done in return? perhaps a nice large continued rebate?
We were reluctant members of the EEC first time round, we ve never been taken seriously and unless we truly embrace Europe, i think we should leave.0 -
I am sure that the fishermen and related industries are grateful for the dole money paid for by the EU.mamba80 wrote:So the EU/EEC screwed over our fishing fleet.... but did they really?
We agreed these changes, we didnt have too and what dark deals were done in return? perhaps a nice large continued rebate?
We were reluctant members of the EEC first time round, we ve never been taken seriously and unless we truly embrace Europe, i think we should leave.
Our leaders of all parties will sell out anyone for self interest purposes.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
That's right. Leave the EU: Loss of trade (add sterling is and has been too high against the Euro for trade purposes) due to the EU imposing import tax on everything we try to export to the Euro zone without the UK in it.
No-one dare calculate the loss of income if we were to leave.
At a recent survey, they concluded that migrants in the UK added £6bn to the economy. We no longer have a decent work ethic, we don't have an education system that works or fulfils present or future needs. We can't run a p!ss up in a brewery and some people want to leave the EU ?! Never mind the fact that without the European Courts we would be bereft of basic employment and judicial rights eroded away by Mrs T and her cronies.
The anti euro zone sentiments are just the xenophobic ramblings of Island mentality loons.
If you could be 4rsed, you could learn a foreign language and travel abroad to work and live. All under the umbrella of the EU, enjoying health care, rights and certain benefits. But because we cba, we bemoan those who can be 4rsed to learn a foreign language and actually want to work and are willing to travel to find it.
In Spain last year, my little one had an accident. It was a Sunday. We got to an Urgencia within minutes. We were then sent to another hospital where we saw a Paediatrician within 10 minutes of getting there. On a Sunday!! They even sent a report to our GP. All free. We take for granted the benefits of living in the EU.
When the Tin mines in Cornwall filled up with water and leached effluent all over the waterways and tributaries, it was the EU rural development fund that cleaned the mess up. When the locals at a village near us got totally fed up of trucks running 24/7 through the village and years of building depreciation and degradation, unsafe roads for kids and families crossing at peril, community spirit dwindling, it was the EU who paid for the by-pass.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
pinarello001 wrote:
If you could be 4rsed, you could learn a foreign language and travel abroad to work and live. All under the umbrella of the EU, enjoying health care, rights and certain benefits. But because we cba, we bemoan those who can be 4rsed to learn a foreign language and actually want to work and are willing to travel to find it.
In Spain last year, my little one had an accident. It was a Sunday. We got to an Urgencia within minutes. We were then sent to another hospital where we saw a Paediatrician within 10 minutes of getting there. On a Sunday!! They even sent a report to our GP. All free. We take for granted the benefits of living in the EU.
It's not about being arsed, it's about need. They have to be 'arsed' because their aren't any jobs at home. It's not unreasonable to suggest that if Poland was awash with opportunity and the UK a desolate shithole then the roles would be reversed. The EU project has failed a generation, 50% youth unemployment in Spain, and by 'youth' that is measured as every other person under the age of 24 without a job. How anyone can hold that up as model of governance is beyond me. I'm amazed there is not any civil unrest over it.0 -
verylonglegs wrote:pinarello001 wrote:
If you could be 4rsed, you could learn a foreign language and travel abroad to work and live. All under the umbrella of the EU, enjoying health care, rights and certain benefits. But because we cba, we bemoan those who can be 4rsed to learn a foreign language and actually want to work and are willing to travel to find it.
In Spain last year, my little one had an accident. It was a Sunday. We got to an Urgencia within minutes. We were then sent to another hospital where we saw a Paediatrician within 10 minutes of getting there. On a Sunday!! They even sent a report to our GP. All free. We take for granted the benefits of living in the EU.
It's not about being arsed, it's about need. They have to be 'arsed' because their aren't any jobs at home. It's not unreasonable to suggest that if Poland was awash with opportunity and the UK a desolate shithole then the roles would be reversed. The EU project has failed a generation, 50% youth unemployment in Spain, and by 'youth' that is measured as every other person under the age of 24 without a job. How anyone can hold that up as model of governance is beyond me. I'm amazed there is not any civil unrest over it.
There is civil unrest in many parts of Europe. The failed EU experiment is propagating the rise in Far Right parties (not UKIP, although they are right of centre). Many states are seeing pressure on their finite services, with the open door policy of Europe. I am sure that in the next year or two we will see the rise of right wing factions in Italy and civil unrest. Something that I can empathise with, as the country has ended up being the arrivals lounge for tens of thousands of immigrants from North Africa. Once on European shores there is very little that can be done to return them. I am sure that this will not sit well with many of you liberal thinking forumites. But no matter how much I think there are deserving cases of people needing asylum, there is no way that the UK/Europe can keep accepting the numbers that are arriving now.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
So, there was no emigration before we joined the EU? :?pinarello001 wrote:That's right. Leave the EU: Loss of trade (add sterling is and has been too high against the Euro for trade purposes) due to the EU imposing import tax on everything we try to export to the Euro zone without the UK in it.
No-one dare calculate the loss of income if we were to leave.
At a recent survey, they concluded that migrants in the UK added £6bn to the economy. We no longer have a decent work ethic, we don't have an education system that works or fulfils present or future needs. We can't run a p!ss up in a brewery and some people want to leave the EU ?! Never mind the fact that without the European Courts we would be bereft of basic employment and judicial rights eroded away by Mrs T and her cronies.
The anti euro zone sentiments are just the xenophobic ramblings of Island mentality loons.
If you could be 4rsed, you could learn a foreign language and travel abroad to work and live. All under the umbrella of the EU, enjoying health care, rights and certain benefits. But because we cba, we bemoan those who can be 4rsed to learn a foreign language and actually want to work and are willing to travel to find it.
In Spain last year, my little one had an accident. It was a Sunday. We got to an Urgencia within minutes. We were then sent to another hospital where we saw a Paediatrician within 10 minutes of getting there. On a Sunday!! They even sent a report to our GP. All free. We take for granted the benefits of living in the EU.
When the Tin mines in Cornwall filled up with water and leached effluent all over the waterways and tributaries, it was the EU rural development fund that cleaned the mess up. When the locals at a village near us got totally fed up of trucks running 24/7 through the village and years of building depreciation and degradation, unsafe roads for kids and families crossing at peril, community spirit dwindling, it was the EU who paid for the by-pass.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I love a euro association but as some have said above, I am not sure how much we would lose in trade if we were not a member.
I think we need to reconsider manufacturing which will cost money to start but will also reap rewards in the end.
Having said that, we have become a state where people accept unemployment as a form of employment. I can't express how little respect I have for people who purposefully stay unemployed, I think they are a disgrace, not only for the debt others pay to keep them afloat but because they destroy their identity, in a hundred or a thousand years you will have no trace of your life or achievements after death if thats the line you choose.
We can fix this country, its simple, very simple. it just isn't pleasant.
Make people accountable, stop waste, tax fairly and assist trade.Living MY dream.0 -
pinarello001 wrote:That's right. Leave the EU: Loss of trade (add sterling is and has been too high against the Euro for trade purposes) due to the EU imposing import tax on everything we try to export to the Euro zone without the UK in it.
No-one dare calculate the loss of income if we were to leave.
At a recent survey, they concluded that migrants in the UK added £6bn to the economy. We no longer have a decent work ethic, we don't have an education system that works or fulfils present or future needs. We can't run a p!ss up in a brewery and some people want to leave the EU ?! Never mind the fact that without the European Courts we would be bereft of basic employment and judicial rights eroded away by Mrs T and her cronies.
The anti euro zone sentiments are just the xenophobic ramblings of Island mentality loons.
If you could be 4rsed, you could learn a foreign language and travel abroad to work and live. All under the umbrella of the EU, enjoying health care, rights and certain benefits. But because we cba, we bemoan those who can be 4rsed to learn a foreign language and actually want to work and are willing to travel to find it.
In Spain last year, my little one had an accident. It was a Sunday. We got to an Urgencia within minutes. We were then sent to another hospital where we saw a Paediatrician within 10 minutes of getting there. On a Sunday!! They even sent a report to our GP. All free. We take for granted the benefits of living in the EU.
When the Tin mines in Cornwall filled up with water and leached effluent all over the waterways and tributaries, it was the EU rural development fund that cleaned the mess up. When the locals at a village near us got totally fed up of trucks running 24/7 through the village and years of building depreciation and degradation, unsafe roads for kids and families crossing at peril, community spirit dwindling, it was the EU who paid for the by-pass.
You are right, all these failings of the UK and its priorities on spending have occurred whilst we ve been in the EU.
why havent we a health service like the Spanish or french have? election after election we vote for parties that lower taxes, leaving decent health care only for those who can afford BUPA and an education system that is appalling, again the rich send their kids into the private sector, even now, after the next election, they ll be savage cuts to council funding, meaning worse roads, even less social care and forget about libraries and leisure centres... and we ll all be voting for it, just so we get a lower tax code, whilst the very wealthy pay even less tax.
We as a nation should embrace the EU or leave, i want us to stay and become a full partner, instead of this 1/2 way house, where we swop between the uSA and europe, it just doesnt work.0 -
Problem is, the cuts you dislike (as I do) are needed due to the borrowing previous governments have done.
As I have said countless times, in the business sector you would be facing jail for doing the EXACT same thing.
People will continue to vote for the party they think will leave them with more money and thats why the issue will not be resolved.
Also, I have BUPA and it is far cheaper than the contributions to national health that I make.
£42/month is an absolute bargain.Living MY dream.0 -
pinarello001 wrote:That's right. Leave the EU: Loss of trade (add sterling is and has been too high against the Euro for trade purposes) due to the EU imposing import tax on everything we try to export to the Euro zone without the UK in it.
No-one dare calculate the loss of income if we were to leave.
At a recent survey, they concluded that migrants in the UK added £6bn to the economy. We no longer have a decent work ethic, we don't have an education system that works or fulfils present or future needs. We can't run a p!ss up in a brewery and some people want to leave the EU ?! Never mind the fact that without the European Courts we would be bereft of basic employment and judicial rights eroded away by Mrs T and her cronies.
The anti euro zone sentiments are just the xenophobic ramblings of Island mentality loons.
If you could be 4rsed, you could learn a foreign language and travel abroad to work and live. All under the umbrella of the EU, enjoying health care, rights and certain benefits. But because we cba, we bemoan those who can be 4rsed to learn a foreign language and actually want to work and are willing to travel to find it.
In Spain last year, my little one had an accident. It was a Sunday. We got to an Urgencia within minutes. We were then sent to another hospital where we saw a Paediatrician within 10 minutes of getting there. On a Sunday!! They even sent a report to our GP. All free. We take for granted the benefits of living in the EU.
When the Tin mines in Cornwall filled up with water and leached effluent all over the waterways and tributaries, it was the EU rural development fund that cleaned the mess up. When the locals at a village near us got totally fed up of trucks running 24/7 through the village and years of building depreciation and degradation, unsafe roads for kids and families crossing at peril, community spirit dwindling, it was the EU who paid for the by-pass.
From an earlier thread.
Re: Own Goal for the Tories
Postby Ballysmate » Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:37 pm
Thanks to the unrecognised but astounding work of the World Trade Organisation there really is no need for either an EU single market. Average import tariffs into the EU are 1.09 per cent for the United States – and it does not bear the cost of EU commissioners and hangers-on, bureaucrats, politicians and advisers, nor an EU parliament or an EU membership fee to gain access to what the Confederation of British Industry claims mistakenly is vital to our economic survival.
Canada, Switzerland and South Korea all have Free Trade agreements with the EU to gain access without cost to the erroneously titled “single market” and the Lisbon Treaty makes the EU duty-bound to give any country leaving – be it the UK or Scotland – the same deal.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-mont ... -1-3634328
Is withdrawal from the EU the end of the world?
People asume that out trade with them would cease, but is that really the case?
As regards the bypass etc provided by the EU, the EU has no money, it is the money paid in by member states. ie OUR money.
I am not a UKIP voter but the notion that withdrawal from the EU means us falling off the edge of the world perhaps needs examining.0
