Advice on brakes please

CptMuppet
CptMuppet Posts: 32
edited April 2015 in Road buying advice
This morning on my way to work I noticed at the most inconvenient time that I wasn't slowing down as quickly as I wanted. So before I get into any more grief I thought I would do something about it. I have a Giant Defy 3 (2014) with the stock brakes and pads. Do I just replace the pads and with what type/make? Or I read some where that people were replacing the calipers too as they weren't up to much? As always I don't want to spend huge amounts of money but after this morning Ithink my safety is top priority, well safety on a budget at least :):) ;-)
Any help will be greatly appreciated..
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Comments

  • navrig2
    navrig2 Posts: 1,851
    It might be worth telling us what the stock brakes are? No doubts that some are better than others and often the big manufacturers swap the Ultegra/105/Tiagra brakes for cheaper units.

    Have you been adjusting the brakes as the pads wear and the cables stretch? If not you may simply have too much travel between brakes off and the point at which they start to bite and slow you down.

    Beyond that people will express different opinions on pads but often the Swissstop pads are reckoned to be amongst the best.

    http://www.swissstop.com/

    They are expensive through.

    An alternative and cheaper brand is Koolstop.

    http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/kools ... pound.html

    Depending on what brakes you have you may simply replace the pads but you may also need new shoes:

    http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/trek- ... older.html
  • CptMuppet
    CptMuppet Posts: 32
    Many thanks for the quick response, the spec says the brakes are Tektro TK-R312 Giant Specific, Dual Pivot. Don't know if that's good or bad. Looking at the pads they look worn and I haven't been adjusting them. I will get on with that before my ride home. Looking at the pads I will definitely be replacing them but thought I would check on people opinion of the brakes as well.
  • mrushton
    mrushton Posts: 5,182
    They are ok but a change to 105, Ultegra or DA if affordable will make a difference. Velo Orange do a nice one but maybe not short drop.
    M.Rushton
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    105 5800 and Ultegra 6800 brakes get good reviews. And are relatively inexpensive . If they perform similar to Dura Ace 9000 they will be excellent value. As the back brake isn't used that much you may only need to upgrade the front caliper. But it wont match obviously.
  • alan_sherman
    alan_sherman Posts: 1,157
    Adjust them and they will work fine. You may have worn out the brake block, in which case fit new ones. Or pay you local bike shop to do this if you are not comfortable doing mechanical work on the things that save your life.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    alan sherman wrote:
    Or pay you local bike shop to do this if you are not comfortable doing mechanical work on the things that save your life.
    that's a bit arsey isn't it?
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    You need to work out if they are long drop brakes or not. If they are look at getting r650's which are very good value for money, even the wife admitted they were a big improvement on her road bike. If not then look at 105 or better brakes. The cheap brakes they put on new bikes are generally borderline dangerous if you ride fast and are fairly heavy.
  • CptMuppet
    CptMuppet Posts: 32
    Many thanks for all your help, I don't mine doing work on the bike, and I usually find if I am unsure how to do something Youtube helps. I will adjust them first replace the blocks and then see if I want to replace the brakes. Question though, if I change to 105's for instance do I also need to change my levers?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    If they're Shimano levers then no.
  • passout
    passout Posts: 4,425
    I'd change the pads to something good quality like Koolstops (Salmon). Should be fine then if correctly set up, if not then consider new brakes.
    'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    With alloy rims, I personally don't think that Koolstops or the even more expensive Swisstops work much better than Shimanos R55C3 and R55C4 pads. In my opinion, there is no need to spend anything more.
    N
    N+1
  • Rocketm0n
    Rocketm0n Posts: 14
    http://www.tredz.co.uk/.Aztec-Road-Inse ... AodsR0APw#

    I find the above pads great, more power and better modulation than many pads I've used. Koolstop salmons are also excellent and very kind to rims.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    How worn are they ? Do you have a cable adjuster to bring them in closer to the wheel ? That would be my first call.

    After that I'd just see if you can swap the blocks out without removing the whole shoe. Some are replaceable - you just slide them out. Saves faffing around making sure they're aligned properly.
  • iron-clover
    iron-clover Posts: 737
    As the others have already said, get yourself a pair of cartridge brake blocks which take the rubber inserts (which means softer rubber can be used than in the stock one piece pads) and get shimano ultegra/ dura ace inserts online.
    You can get away with cheap pad inserts for the rear wheel if you like as you can't put too much force through the rear wheel anyway, but I always use the Dura Ace inserts on the front.

    You could upgrade your callipers as Tektro often get a bad rep, but to be honest you probably won't notice much difference. You'd also have to go for the older models of 105/ Ultegra callipers as unless you have the new levers you won't have the right pull ratio to work properly with the new design.

    Also, sometimes just giving the rims and pads a good clean (and scraping the muck out of the channels of the pad) can make a fair difference as well as reducing wear.

    Good luck!
  • trek_dan
    trek_dan Posts: 1,366
    In all fairness I'd just get a set of 105 brakes. A set of separate pads/holders to add decent pads will cost near enough £20 anyway.
    I was always a big believer in the its the 'its the pads not the calipers' train of though but the Tektros that came on my Ribble winter bike are so bad there dangerous - even with better pads on.

    P.S Merlin have 105 calipers on for £40 with free post :D
  • CptMuppet
    CptMuppet Posts: 32
    Thanks for all your help. 1. I have adjusted the brakes and seem a little better. 2. Just cleaned my rims and couldn't believe what came off. They didnt look that dirty
    I will remember that for the future.
    If I buy new set of 105's, stupid question i Know, will they come with pads also?
  • DKay
    DKay Posts: 1,652
    Yes, they will come with pads.
    N
    N+1
  • iron-clover
    iron-clover Posts: 737
    CptMuppet wrote:
    Thanks for all your help. 1. I have adjusted the brakes and seem a little better. 2. Just cleaned my rims and couldn't believe what came off. They didnt look that dirty
    I will remember that for the future.
    If I buy new set of 105's, stupid question i Know, will they come with pads also?

    Yes, all of Shimano's brake calipers come with pads in the pack. I believe the both the older 105 5700 and the newer 5800 come with cartridge brake blocks rather than the solid rubber shoes.

    Still, beware of the 5800 levers unless you have the new levers too as the lever ratios are different- they should still work but not as well as they should.
  • CptMuppet
    CptMuppet Posts: 32
    The Levers are Sora STI 3500, so I will be OK with 105 5700?
    It seems a bit of a no brainier if I can get a pair or brake sets for £40. Looking at just buying pads and cartridges will cost as much or more depending which one I go for.
    Again Thanks for your help. Its good that there's somewhere to go and ask these questions
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    edited April 2015
    Shimano Compatibility Chart 2015 - Scroll down for brakes

    http://www.celebrazio.net/bicycling/shi ... ility.html

    XVWjmmy.png

    You have ST-3500 Levers so will work fine with BR-5700 or BR-5800.

    i would personally choose the 5800 brakes as the new SLR-EV design should be an improvment over the old one.
  • alan_sherman
    alan_sherman Posts: 1,157
    Someone thought I was a bit arsy with my earlier reply. Wasn't meant to be, I know people who will happily work on engines but won't touch their brakes!

    Also even low end brakes are good to stop with these days if adjusted correctly and with alloy rims, so there is no need to spend £40 on new ones. My colleague has an old bike with Chrome rims - in the wet that is a scary experience!

    One piece blocks work perfectly well and are a fiver: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shim ... lsrc=aw.ds

    I found Koolstop salmon a bit better in the wet, and moved to cartridge holders for those, but it wasn't essential and I think I'll use up my stock of std shimano pads when they wear out.
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    Also even low end brakes are good to stop with these days if adjusted correctly and with alloy rims, so there is no need to spend £40 on new ones. My colleague has an old bike with Chrome rims - in the wet that is a scary experience!

    This isn't a case of brakes just being good to stop. The OP want more powerful brakes that stop him faster which the more expensive calipers definitely are and do. Try them. They are well worth the money. They actually save your life better than any cheapo Tektro's ever could. Please stop spreading propaganda :)
  • johnmiosh
    johnmiosh Posts: 211
    Back in the 70s wet steel rims were the ultimate test of nerve, but as technology has moved on braking has improved beyond belief, and I certainly want to take advantage of the improvements.

    I have kitted out my winter bike with Ultegra 6600 brakes and swisstop green pads. I have left my summer bike, Ultegra 6700 brakes, with the stock pads as it doesn't generally have to deal with atrocious weather. It usually comes as a shock how poor dry weather braking on Ultegra pads is in comparison, and if I get caught in a downpour, it becomes much worse.

    I will leave the stock pads on until they wear out, but i will swop them out for Swissstop Blue or Koolstop salmon when worn. more expensive, but on pence per mile, I think its worth it.
  • alan_sherman
    alan_sherman Posts: 1,157
    What the hell. Hey OP - just go out and buy a new bike to improve your braking!


    Apparently I need to try expensive callipers. :roll:
  • lesfirth
    lesfirth Posts: 1,382
    trailflow wrote:
    Also even low end brakes are good to stop with these days if adjusted correctly and with alloy rims, so there is no need to spend £40 on new ones. My colleague has an old bike with Chrome rims - in the wet that is a scary experience!

    This isn't a case of brakes just being good to stop. The OP want more powerful brakes that stop him faster which the more expensive calipers definitely are and do. Try them. They are well worth the money. They actually save your life better than any cheapo Tektro's ever could. Please stop spreading propaganda :)

    We have this topic regularly. Please tell me why expensive calipers will work better. Nobody has been able to in the past.
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    edited April 2015
    We have this topic regularly. Please tell me why expensive calipers will work better. Nobody has been able to in the past.

    Plenty of infomation has been presented but you choose to ignore it. I will dig up the thread if i can find it.

    Isn't the proof in the pudding ? Why does everybody who buys top end brakes say they are powerful. Is it
    imaginary for all those buyers ? Why do people with cheap calipers (tektro and others) say they want more powerful brakes ?

    Please watch this video from 1:20 . Surely from this you will gauge just why Dura Ace 9000 brakes are better than cheap calipers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku6Y5XSpjFI

    lesfirth you are a brake technology denier :)
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    What the hell. Hey OP - just go out and buy a new bike to improve your braking!


    Apparently I need to try expensive callipers. :roll:

    If you dont think money should be spent on brakes what components do you think you should spend money on then ? Brakes for me are the most important components on the bike.
  • lesfirth
    lesfirth Posts: 1,382
    trailflow wrote:
    We have this topic regularly. Please tell me why expensive calipers will work better. Nobody has been able to in the past.

    Plenty of infomation has been presented but you choose to ignore it. I will dig up the thread if i can find it.

    Isn't the proof in the pudding ? Why does everybody who buys top end brakes say they are powerful. Is it
    imaginary for all those buyers ? Why do people with cheap calipers (tektro and others) say they want more powerful brakes ?

    Please watch this video from 1:20 . Surely from this you will gauge just why Dura Ace 9000 brakes are better than cheap calipers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku6Y5XSpjFI

    lesfirth you are a brake technology denier :)

    It is just a bit of simple applied mechanics. No amount of marketing bull can overcome that in my head.☺
  • trailflow
    trailflow Posts: 1,311
    Yes, simple mechanics that is not implemented in any Tektro brake.

    On the SLR-EV design the roller cam moves along the curved arm and increases the leverage force that in turn increases the power to the rims. Are you saying it doesn't work ,or make a difference and is pure marketing bs ? That is a weak counter argument. It is just a bit of simple applied mechanics that you choose not to recognise or acknowledge or accept is better.

    Carry on being ignorant :)
  • CptMuppet
    CptMuppet Posts: 32
    Okay so I have ordered some new pads. I will be changing the brakes themselves after I have seen what difference the pads make. That way I can tell what difference each change makes plus if I wait a little longer to change the calipers I can get them for my birthday. I appreciate everyone's help, and I think I have learnt a thing or two. Also it has made me change the way I brake, sounds daft I know but there you go. Thanks again and I will let you know next week how much difference the pads make.

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