SKYs new bike for Flanders and P-R

Ashbeck

Just seen an article on the new Dogma K-8S with the rear suspension that Wiggo and co will be riding at Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. (Sorry dont know how to post pics)

Interesting that the chainstays are flat to flex up and down, you wouldn't want those snapping with the shock absorber fired up your arris :shock:

What do people think? Is this borderline mechanical doping?

TimB34

I think that Geraint is wondering how much loctite has been used on that bolt



from http://road.cc/content/news/147547-coul ... is-roubaix

Ashbeck

Yeah probably put there by Wiggins the way G is flying at the moment

Pokerface

Various attempts have been made to incorporate shock absorption over the years. Spesh still use the Roubaix bike which has the shock-absorbing Zertz inserts as an example.

I believe people have tried full front suspension (and won).

The Sky bike isn't a new concept - it was used by Discovery in the 90's.

Quick article here on some of the stuff that's been used: http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/arti ... ved-33631/

tailwindhome

Does the absorption not result in some bouncing up and down at the expense of forward motion, like a nodder commuter on a full sus MTB

Pokerface

I'm no engineer - but I'd be slightly worried about how much the carbon needs to flex where the chainstays meet the BB in order to allow the rear stays to move and for the 'shock absorber' to do it's thing behind the seat tube. There is no built-in pivot there - it just relies on flex in the frame I believe.

curium

Seems very bold to throw it in for a debut at a showcase event.

Why didn't they get the lads to give it a run out at Gent or E3?

Pokerface

curium wrote:

Seems very bold to throw it in for a debut at a showcase event.

Why didn't they get the lads to give it a run out at Gent or E3?

Well, they've tested it in training so it's not totally new. And they are using it in Flanders as prep for Roubaix.

tom3

A carbon full Susser mtb gets hammered and has more travel with no issues.

It won't bounce as the damping will be so rigid. Such a tiny bit of bit of travel will let the rear wheel track the cobbles better. Especially in the wet.

I'd seen pics of a cannondale super x mixed with a lefty fork earlier this year and I was half expecting a revised synapse /cross bike to be on show.

Macaloon

Fair bit of development and testing work for a couple of races. Presumably the economic return to the manufacturer is the free publicity for their bikes in general, and the potential kudos of equipping the winner, rather than sales of this model?

mididoctors

curium wrote:

Seems very bold to throw it in for a debut at a showcase event.

Why didn't they get the lads to give it a run out at Gent or E3?

this

risky

philwint

mididoctors wrote:

curium wrote:

Seems very bold to throw it in for a debut at a showcase event.

Why didn't they get the lads to give it a run out at Gent or E3?

this

risky

Isn't it just the old British Cycling mentality?

I seem to remember that the Olympic track bikes only come out for the Olympics. Not for training or 'lesser' comps?

Something like this isn't developed overnight, so it's probably safe to assume it's been tested to death.

inseine

OnYourRight wrote:

tom3 wrote:

A carbon full Susser mtb gets hammered and has more travel with no issues.

But has at least one pivot. This one just has bendy stays. (But of course they’ll work fine for the 10 mm (less than half an inch) of travel available.)

tom3 wrote:

It won't bounce as the damping will be so rigid.

As far as I can tell there’s no damping at all. Not that there’s much info to go on.

Press release...
'with a small damper located at the top of the seat stays.'

inseine

Pokerface wrote:

I'm no engineer - but I'd be slightly worried about how much the carbon needs to flex where the chainstays meet the BB in order to allow the rear stays to move and for the 'shock absorber' to do it's thing behind the seat tube. There is no built-in pivot there - it just relies on flex in the frame I believe.

A Cannondale Scalpel has, I think, 100mm of travel and relies on flexible carbon chainstays. I don't think the few mm on the Pinarello will be any issue.

Ashbeck

They are claiming a 4-5% advantage/improvement with this bike, if thats the case SKY should walk it

I wonder if Froome will use one on the cobbled TDF stage?

Crampeur

They will probably just use a lot more carbon weave (as opposed to unidirectional) in the seatstays. UD carbon is what makes bikes stiff but is very brittle, whereas weave is less stiff and has a lower Young's Modulus, so is more resistant to flexing.

inseine

OnYourRight wrote:

inseine wrote:

Press release...
'with a small damper located at the top of the seat stays.'

Which press release?

Not this one.

Not this one.

This one.... http://www.pinarello.com/en/bike-2015/road/dogma-k8

We designed a lightweight suspension system in combination with the new carbon chain stays

Crampeur

I've been to some training on Specialized's 2015 models where they showed a video of a Roubaix against a Trek Domane on cobbles. On both bikes, the most apparent flexing and supposed comfort came from using a narrower seatpost, which flexed forward and back quite noticeably. The Zertz insets that Specialized use are essentially a gimmick, although the decoupler on the Domane does do something to absorb vibration.

It will be interesting to see how well this works. Not exactly new technology though, this is on Hincapie's bike form the 2006 P-R:

emadden

So, Pinarello is producing this for the mass market. From my side (and I'm a Dogma owner), this just looks horrid. I can't get my mind around who on earth would buy one of these. Probably the wealthy mamil class who need to have one of everything. The price of that frameset is likely to be stiff (pardon the pun) with minimal obvious use.

inseine

OnYourRight wrote:

So no damper, then. A damper would add a fair bit of weight for minimal benefit, I suppose. It’s just a shock absorber to take the worst edge off the cobbles. I bet even the 10 mm of travel requires a fairly hefty whack, and that some people could ride it and not even know they were riding a bike with suspension.

The claims of several per cent improvement are going to look pretty daft if Team Sky doesn’t win these races.

well a shock absorber is a damper, or at least what most people think of as one, no?

bompington

[quote="OnYourRight"Surely Formula 1 has shown the folly of replacing actual racing with technology racing?[/quote]

Absolutely. Let's get back to no gears and solid tyres right now.

mechanism

tailwindhome

yourpaceormine

It's just a slightly moderner version of a mountain bike design. A soft tail, never really set the world on fire because it didn't have enough travel (it's appearance came when suspension forks went from having travel measured in millimetres to having it measured in inches), although for cobbles it might be more appropriate. Can't for the life of me who made it originally, I have a vague recollection it was a ti frame. I know Moots make a modern version too.

My initial thought was it was a late April's Fool. But then I remembered Sky don't have that sort of a sense of humour.

The_Boy

Pokerface wrote:

I believe people have tried full front suspension (and won).

RichN95.

While it may well have better performance on cobbles, my question would be how does it perform in a sprint? Because that's where the race is often won.

Anonymous

RichN95 wrote:

While it may well have better performance on cobbles, my question would be how does it perform in a sprint? Because that's where the race is often won.

I don't think Sky will be wanting a sprint, I can't imagine any of the riders (barring Stannard) being that confident in one?

RichN95.

sjmclean wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

While it may well have better performance on cobbles, my question would be how does it perform in a sprint? Because that's where the race is often won.

I don't think Sky will be wanting a sprint, I can't imagine any of the riders (barring Stannard) being that confident in one?

Thomas really should be better than he is. I think he has some decent pace but little idea what to do with it.

Anonymous

RichN95 wrote:

sjmclean wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

While it may well have better performance on cobbles, my question would be how does it perform in a sprint? Because that's where the race is often won.

I don't think Sky will be wanting a sprint, I can't imagine any of the riders (barring Stannard) being that confident in one?

Thomas really should be better than he is. I think he has some decent pace but little idea what to do with it.

Yeah I agree, but he lacks the sprint Stannard has (well in the two Omloop wins) which is similar to Kristoff style (not saying he's anywhere near that level) of just on the front and power.

Ashbeck

RichN95 wrote:

While it may well have better performance on cobbles, my question would be how does it perform in a sprint? Because that's where the race is often won.

I did wonder that myself, which led to to thinking if the suspension is adjustable like it is on MTB forks ie: springy or locked solid. Im guessing it isn't as it would be hard to adjust during a ride which means it must still be flexing in a sprint (to a certain extent)??

Paul 8v

Can't see a lockout on it, unless you twist it or something.