Formula 1: I don't get it

VTech

The cars are quicker now than they have been for years. You can limit RPM whilst allowing engine choice.
You can also limit intakes and fuel as well as exhausts etc.
Tracks are not too bad I think, it is hard to bring back the excitement that is obviously not there but I liked the fueling stops, these can be made much safer but we must not forget that racing is a dangerous sport and incidents will happen, the remove danger removes risk removes excitement.
Thats why we don't have professional boxers wearing head masks.

markhewitt1978

You can make the same arguments about it being boring about cycle racing, and yet once you get into that it's anything but. Same applies to F1.

ben@31

markhewitt1978 wrote:

You can make the same arguments about it being boring about cycle racing, and yet once you get into that it's anything but. Same applies to F1.

With the Tour de France. I just end up watching the scenery, bunting and fancy dress go by and listening to the commentators facts on the area, like a travel show. While simultaneously glancing at the data on the (quite good) TDF website to see the time differences of the GC contenders and the points of the KOM contenders. Last year the TDF website even had a live stream that tracked where the riders were on a map and elevation profile and current standings. In my opinion the website provided better situational awareness than the tv coverage. A few years ago, I just watched the last half hour of each stage to see the GC contenders cross the line.

Anonymous

I am quite a fan, and do try to follow it, although I confess to have never been to a race. This season, I am only looking forward to seeing the McHonda improve. Rumour has it they could be a genuine contender (god knows where I read that) and also seeing Vettel in a Ferrari. Of course Mercedes will smash it, but so long as the cameras remain on 3-10th place, it will be interesting to watch the rest. Also hope Manor do well.

I used to think that Bernie was all poison and evil to the sport, but the sad facts are that the company is owned by a private equity firm who's only job is to get a return for investors. Bernie's job is to ensure that continues, why would he change anything to threaten that? That is why the middle eastern tracks win mandates for races, because they pour cash into it. Will the golden goose die of heat exhaustion and lack of fans? Quite probably.

morstar

VTech wrote:

Group B was the very best.
This is probably the best drive of all time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEuZG37gFdM

Group B was the wild west of motor sports. Drivers hardly sleeping for a week whilst driving ridiculously powerful machines designed with minimal concessions to driver safety. Absolutely incredible to watch but its demise was inevitable.

secretsam

Excellent debate, folks. TBH, I'm not a 'motorsport' person, never was. But I could watch WRC and saloon racing (don't know about the other flavours, not got access to it). Motorbike racing on the other hand leaves me stone cold, yet there's massive amounts of overtaking and crashes, which - let's be honest - is a large part of the appeal of motorsport, at least for the non-techie enthusiast.

It's interesting to compare them with stage race cycling or cricket; however, both of these are 'all day' events, not 90 minute events, and you can wander in an out of watching them. Or just get p1553d, which in the case of cricket seems to be pretty much compulsory, IME.

As for comparisons with football, well, yes, there are boring games. But then there are wonderful games that are totally nuts - and unlike, say, F1, you can just go out and play it on your local park!

markhewitt1978

Formula 1 was the first sport I actually liked. I grew up in Gateshead where everyone was into football and that was that. I never liked football, watching or playing, so I grew up thinking I didn't like sport or exercise!

I was only when I discovered Formula 1 that I realised I really did like sport after all, and it was only when I took up cycling that I realised I really did like exercise!

I did used to be the biggest F1 fan as well as going to British Touring Car races, I run a Motorsport Forums site, my interest has waned more recently due to my daughter coming along and Sunday mornings being for cycling and Sunday afternoons being for family outings.

Anonymous

Interesting grid for tomorrow. Looks like a bit of rain has shaken things up. Really egging on Ferrari, Torro Rosso, Red Bull and Williams to bring it Mercedes if it's not too dry tomorrow. MacLaren say "if we gain 1s per race for the next 5 races well be on pole." Ambitious!

secretsam

coriordan wrote:

Interesting grid for tomorrow. Looks like a bit of rain has shaken things up. Really egging on Ferrari, Torro Rosso, Red Bull and Williams to bring it Mercedes if it's not too dry tomorrow. MacLaren say "if we gain 1s per race for the next 5 races well be on pole." Ambitious!

My point exactly. It's all about technology. A sport where the winner sits at a desk with a laptop.

EDIT: corrected for appalling typo. Dunce's cap for SecretSam, DoE take back his English O-Level :oops:

VTech

SecretSam wrote:

coriordan wrote:

Interesting grid for tomorrow. Looks like a bit of rain has shaken things up. Really egging on Ferrari, Torro Rosso, Red Bull and Williams to bring it Mercedes if it's not too dry tomorrow. MacLaren say "if we gain 1s per race for the next 5 races well be on pole." Ambitious!

My point exactly. It's all about technology. A sport wear the winner sits at a desk with a laptop.

That's life in general.
There are not many hard working people I know (by that I mean physical) that are rich.
However, I know plenty of incredibly wealthy people who sit behind a pc on the daily.

secretsam

VTech wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

coriordan wrote:

Interesting grid for tomorrow. Looks like a bit of rain has shaken things up. Really egging on Ferrari, Torro Rosso, Red Bull and Williams to bring it Mercedes if it's not too dry tomorrow. MacLaren say "if we gain 1s per race for the next 5 races well be on pole." Ambitious!

My point exactly. It's all about technology. A sport wear the winner sits at a desk with a laptop.

That's life in general.
There are not many hard working people I know (by that I mean physical) that are rich.
However, I know plenty of incredibly wealthy people who sit behind a pc on the daily.

Well, that's kind of missing the point. The drivers are massively wealthy (no laptop there), but the real people who decide the winners and losers are the designers, etc. The driver's only secondary.

VTech

SecretSam wrote:

VTech wrote:

SecretSam wrote:

coriordan wrote:

Interesting grid for tomorrow. Looks like a bit of rain has shaken things up. Really egging on Ferrari, Torro Rosso, Red Bull and Williams to bring it Mercedes if it's not too dry tomorrow. MacLaren say "if we gain 1s per race for the next 5 races well be on pole." Ambitious!

My point exactly. It's all about technology. A sport wear the winner sits at a desk with a laptop.

That's life in general.
There are not many hard working people I know (by that I mean physical) that are rich.
However, I know plenty of incredibly wealthy people who sit behind a pc on the daily.

Well, that's kind of missing the point. The drivers are massively wealthy (no laptop there), but the real people who decide the winners and losers are the designers, etc. The driver's only secondary.

If only that were the case.
The problem is that most of the drivers are there because of the money they bring to the team rather than they fact that they are the best drivers.
My ideal for F1 is for the best of everything to thrive which just isn't the case.
Your right about the techs though, even the best driver won't win of the car isn't quick.

imposter2.0

johnfinch wrote:

I watched it for a couple of seasons in my teens, then got really bored of it. Could be worse, could be NASCAR. At least they bother to put curves on a F1 track.

Ovals have curves...

VTech

It's quite ironic that today's race was one of the best for while. Tactical and technical throughout.

imposter2.0

VTech wrote:

It's quite ironic that today's race was one of the best for while. Tactical and technical throughout.

I actually watched some of today's race - although there didn't seem to be much 'racing' going on. I've been to track days that were more interesting to watch...

VTech

Imposter wrote:

VTech wrote:

It's quite ironic that today's race was one of the best for while. Tactical and technical throughout.

I actually watched some of today's race - although there didn't seem to be much 'racing' going on. I've been to track days that were more interesting to watch...

The stats suggest differently but of course we all are entitled to an opinion.
One lap with 16 overtakes which is far from the norm in F1.

I'm yet to go to a track day which was more interesting than an F1 also. This weekend was 2 of the biggest track days in the UK for the year and both were superb (weather hindered today) but an F1 race on the whole is tacticly superior to anything, even when the race is a foregone conclusion.

ravey1981

Debeli wrote:

cyd190468 wrote:

Schumacher in 94. The Benetton wasn't even the second best car.

There are those who point to the absence of a filter in the filler neck, the probable use of traction control , the low ride height (taking too much off the plank) and various other shennanigans made things slightly uneven in Schumacher's favour that year.

About the only thing that didn't give that team an unfair advantage was the honesty, probity and gentlemanly conduct of the team boss, Flavio Briatore, who was and who remains one of the most honest people in sport.

Schumacher was clearly a huge talent and was driving a car so tuned to his needs that no-one else could drive it (shades of Stoner at Ducati). But he was not driving an inferior car and he had a tream around him who were prepared to 'prepare properly'.

And that he drove into Damon Hill deliberately at Adelaide, that helped....

But, Flavio? Surely you're having a laugh there.... theres a reason he's not allowed in F1 anymore and its not because of his honesty.....

jawooga

I don't really like motor racing in general though I can sit and watch a lot easier than I can horse racing. That said, I think what some of the F1 bashers forget is that the driver spends a lot of time and effort, skill, and knowledge influencing the team's set up of the car. AFAIK, it's not a case that the techies win the race in isolation.

imposter2.0

jawooga wrote:

I don't really like motor racing in general though I can sit and watch a lot easier than I can horse racing. That said, I think what some of the F1 bashers forget is that the driver spends a lot of time and effort, skill, and knowledge influencing the team's set up of the car. AFAIK, it's not a case that the techies win the race in isolation.

I've no doubt that is true. The racing is far more engaging in Formula Ford (or similar) though.

VTech

Imposter wrote:

jawooga wrote:

I don't really like motor racing in general though I can sit and watch a lot easier than I can horse racing. That said, I think what some of the F1 bashers forget is that the driver spends a lot of time and effort, skill, and knowledge influencing the team's set up of the car. AFAIK, it's not a case that the techies win the race in isolation.

I've no doubt that is true. The racing is far more engaging in Formula Ford (or similar) though.

Formala Ford is a great stepping stone.
I ran a team for a season a couple of years ago and it was a good learning experience. Too political for my liking however and something I wouldn't repeat.

markhewitt1978

cyd190468 wrote:

Formula 1 is a bit like stage races. The drivers championship is the equivalent of GC

That's a good way of putting it. Even if the positions stay the same there's significance in terms of how close to the end they are. It's just that F1 stages are once every 2 weeks or so rather than every day.

secretsam

I've found my new t-shirt

http://www.moretvicar.com/collection/the-daily-mash/product/the-daily-mash-waste-of-time-mens-t-shirt

florerider

My F1 loving colleagues can't quite see why I stood on the side of the road in London for hours to see a 45 minute procession of expensive busses and a few seconds of Kittel getting into his lead out train.

VTech

florerider wrote:

My F1 loving colleagues can't quite see why I stood on the side of the road in London for hours to see a 45 minute procession of expensive busses and a few seconds of Kittel getting into his lead out train.

That's the beauty of this world we live in.
some people like technically advanced equipment in the form of automotive creations and some like technical strength of humans (can't think of many sports that are more Demanding than cycling)

What I don't understand is why some people try to convince themselves that they don't like or appreciate either which to me is a huge negative because you really don't need to like something to appreciate it.
Most of the people here who ride carbon bikes or have bikes that use lightweight metals wouldn't have those without F1.

andcp

VTech wrote:

Most of the people here who ride carbon bikes or have bikes that use lightweight metals wouldn't have those without F1.

Sorry to be a pedant VTech, but I think aerospace did far more to develop these materials and F1 got the benefits. However ERS, turbo systems, advanced braking systems owe a lot to F1.

On another note, I've been to two F1 races, both in Abu Dhabi. With the warm weather (30+c in November), cold beer, free concerts (McCartney included) and brilliant organisation, even someone not into F1 would enjoy the weekend.

Mark Alexander

cyd190468 wrote:

Chris Bass wrote:

I think it would be a lot more interesting if they all had to drive the same car.

Who was the last person to win the championship who wasn't in the best car?

Schumacher in 94. The Benetton wasn't even the second best car.

I'm an F1, cycling and Rugby (Union) fan.

Who was the last tour winner who won without the team?

The drivers are more skilful than most of us the competitiveness on the track is matched by the competitiveness of the engineers, mechanics, designers, paper pushers of any of the teams. I bet the respective tea ladies would have a brew-off if given half a chance.

With F1 passing has increased, they do drive into each other intentionally (BTTC reference) driver aids and pit wall advice have been banned as a whole. If you look. At it solely from a driver v driver perspective I can see how it may seem that the deck is loaded. However when you add in the amazing level of technical expertise, innovation the inherent danger. I just can't see it as boring.

peat

Andcp wrote:

VTech wrote:

Sorry to be a pedant VTech, but I think aerospace did far more to develop these materials and F1 got the benefits.

Definately true immediately post-war, but commercial aviation is pretty conservative. Top level, manufacturer led motorsport is a 'war' of sorts, leading to some pretty extraordinary materials research.

The problem with F1 now is that it is really, really lost. It's become extremely prescriptive in it's regulations leading to largley pointless engineering exercises in shapening razor blades. Mercedes domination aside, the racing itself is very 'meh' at the moment. Silly tyres that need to be mollycoddled from lap 1 and ludicrous passing aids (DRS) really are a boner-killer.

But, i guess that's what happens when you flog it to venture capitalists that haven't a clue what they are doing....

The really exciting tech at the moment is in WEC (Le Mans Series) where there are some loony bits of kit. The race at Silverstone last weekend was phenomenal.

mamba80

Sunny, a bit of water on the drying track and the xxxxing safety car is still out after 5 laps from the start, what a bl00dy joke

mfin

Formula 1 is boring, but I suppose it can be a nice way to relax in front of the TV for a few hours for some people. It's a bit like watching the majority of cycling and GT stages in that respect, but at least Cycling can be genuinely exciting when when people start going for broke.

There will always be people who have convinced themselves a sport they love is exciting even when nothing exciting is happening. It depends how easily pleased you are I think.

verylonglegs

I think it is quite telling that a mate of mine is a real petrolhead who spends an awful lot of his time and money on very expensive cars and track days. He used to be an avid fan of F1 but wouldn't give it a second thought now, 'It's total nonsense' were his words, and from attending track days with him I can say there are many other motorsport enthusiasts who feel the same. So maybe it just is for armchair fans now to enjoy in a nerdy way.