Climbing out of the saddle in the wet? Any GRIP?

sven_jto

I was doing a Race during the weekend and it was pouring rain. The race had this steep short uphill with pitches of 10-12 percent. I started the final lap leading up the climb, one of the best guys in the region put in a massive attack standing on the pedals up the steepest bit. I generally prefer climbing out of the saddle, especially for short punchy climbs but from the previous laps I knew I had to sit in the saddle because I was getting very little grip. To make matters worse I had selected 11-23 since the race had a downhill before the finish sprint and all my other gear combos didn't have the much needed 11(12-25, 12-27, 12-28) and I had to be grinding which gave me even less power.
So back to the hill he attacked, I was feeling relatively fresh up that short hill and was on the front. I wanted to go with him so I put 2 gears higher(I've heard lower cad standing helps with traction) and wanted to sprint away. Effort fell in vein as no matter what I did I gained almost zero grip up the 12 percent rough wet road(even tried accelerating in the saddle then going out of the saddle), while at the same time he was flying away out of the saddle and it didn't even look like he had a low cadence.
I understand the rear wheel gets weighted when I stand up but how was he able to do it next to me?
Being the type of climber I am I cannot do the same effort in the saddle.
What other tips can you give me for going up climbs in the wet while standing other than mashing a harder gear?
Some more info I'm 83kg, quite tall, was riding Vittoria Corsa Elite tubulars at 6.5/6.8bar. The other guy was around 70-74kgs also on tubs. I was pushing 400-450watts up the climb seated around 70-80cad(felt like grinding) . I was trying to put around 800-900 watts for the attack.


NB: we eventually brought him back almost before the finish, but if I had gotten away with him we might have not been caught together.

cougie

Keep your weight further back to weigh the wheel down.

Switch to a lower gear and ride smoothly.

900W ? How long was this hill - are you a pro ?

sven_jto

cougie wrote:

Keep your weight further back to weigh the wheel down.

Switch to a lower gear and ride smoothly.

900W ? How long was this hill - are you a pro ?

Haha nah I'm just carry a wide heavy load I wanted to put down 900-800W for around 10-12 seconds to jump clear then I could hold around 400+ on the top for 3mins then ftp to the finish. The climb is like 3 mins long
The problem is the hill is so steep I was afraid to put my weight back when out of the saddle. I just don't know how the other guy did it.
I guess doing CX would have helped

cougie

You're not going to lift a wheel on a 10% climb ?

Practice some MTB climbs - they really can be steep and you have to find a technique to climb out of the saddle and keep the weight on the back wheel at the same time.

I'm v jealous of the watts.

imposter2.0

Which race was this, as a matter of interest?

crikey

You seem to concentrate an awful lot on numbers but perhaps need to spend time learning some fairly basic bike handling skills.

Eebijeebi

crikey wrote:

You seem to concentrate an awful lot on numbers but perhaps need to spend time learning some fairly basic bike handling skills.

But can you help him then with which skills he needs to work on to cure his lack of traction problem?
Friendly forum and all that. I can't be the only person who is wondering what his cause may be.

sven_jto

I mentioned the numbers as to give a basic ball-park of the effort not to boast. It was a small APR in Scotland I'm not really powerful I'm just big and heavy. My watts per kg are shit, my carbon bike was damaged so I had to race on an alu bike with carbon wheels if that makes any difference.

Something I have also noticed before when climbing in the saddle(grinding) on dry surface on steep gradients that my front wheel starts to lift(that was a while ago on a carbon bike) but I did combat that successfully by staying in the drops while seated(must have looked funny)

The nice thing is that I get no slippage in the saddle I do think I have a smooth pedaling action although when it comes to anything below 90 rpm I haven't really done much training (not a fan of low cadence intervals). I was out in the wet/snow today but not steep hills so couldn't try anything out. I really want to see if pushing 60-65 standing cadence will help. I might try shifting my weight back as well but i guess that feels kind-a awkward.

cougie wrote:

You're not going to lift a wheel on a 10% climb ?

Practice some MTB climbs - they really can be steep and you have to find a technique to climb out of the saddle and keep the weight on the back wheel at the same time.

I'm v jealous of the watts.

What do you mean by mtb climbs? Unfortunately I don't own an MTB.
Crikey might be kind of right, I do think numbers are important though. It helps quantify things. The thing is I've been road racing for 6+ years and being big I've never been a fan of steep climbs, mtb or wet weather so coming and racing in scotland does require a bit of adaptation for me.

Do you guys think having a short torso long arms, long stem-long position makes matters worse?

BTW there was a stage of paris-nice or something of the other early short stage races where contador couldn't climb out of the saddle in the wet and got dropped by nibali and sagan(they were climbing seated) so they took the stage and overall wins. It was a few years ago. I don't think it's a very basic handling skill if conta didn't manage...crikey

mamba80

You r possibly pulling up aggressively with your trailing legs, coupled with having your backside to far fwd and un weighting the rear wheel, causing it to skip over the wet road, esp if it is rough and bumpy.
Would steep MTB climbs help? as they are in the main seated....
just practice whilst out training and see what works for you.

DeVlaeminck

I've found some tyres much better than others for grip on greasy roads - if you have quality tubs on I'm surprised you found it too much of an issue but sometimes in this situation some tread can be advantageous over a slick - yes I know tread on a car tyre is meant to clear water and that isn't applicable on a bike but clearly a slightly rougher surface is going to be less prone to slipping under power than a slightly rougher one.

Other than that though it has to be a question of weight distribution, uneven pedal stroke (hard to smooth out when you are putting out 900 watts out of the saddle) and as someone else said possibly pulling up the rear of the bike - I'm sure many of us have pulled our back wheel off the ground in a sprint at some time.

crikey

It sounds like you are limiting yourself to fairly static positions both in and out of the saddle. Climbing steep slippy stuff while seated requires that you move about; slide to the front of the saddle, pull forwards with your arms, use a smooth pedalling action, not massive gears. Climbing the same thing while standing involves moving about to find the right balance between front and back to avoid wheel spin.

This is the kind of thing you learn by practicing, not by reading stuff written on the net. The fact that someone else was able to do it and ride away from you shows that it is a skill that can be learned.

I'll repeat my earlier old man style comment; put the gadgets away and learn by practising; racing isn't about power output, watts, cassette size, weight or bars, it's about getting there first.

frisbee

Were you riding where the car tyres run? If the road is damp they'll have considerably less grip than the rest of the road surface.

I was getting wheel spin on a gradient of just a few percent while seated, I was on shiny black tarmac.

sven_jto

Road were very rough, there was tiny potholes on one side and other was rough but without the potholes. I moved to the side without potholes and tried standing in vain. MTB is kind-a out of reach for me at the moment as I don't own one, I guess my best bet is to wait for rain and go out and do some steep hill reps. Just bought a new Water repellent jersey so it will surely help with my motivation to go out in the cold/wet