11-40t 10 speed cassette

Antm81

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/artic ... sed-43713/

Looks promising, $130 looks a little expensive but hopefully UK pricing won't be too bad and possibly not far off the cost of a decent cassette and a 40t ring.

sniper68

$130 is about £87.
An expander is around £45 and a mid-range cassette about the same so it's not that bad....that's assuming of course it comes in at that price.I'm betting UK price will be similar to $ price though :roll:

Antm81

ibbo68 wrote:

$130 is about £87.
An expander is around £45 and a mid-range cassette about the same so it's not that bad....that's assuming of course it comes in at that price.I'm betting UK price will be similar to $ price though :roll:

That's what I'm expecting, I've heard rumours superstar are looking at producing a full cassette so hopefully should start give the option of a decent priced wide range cassette.

I suppose, even if the quality of these cassettes isn't brilliant, it will hopefully push the likes of shimano in to producing wider ranges.

sniper68

I think it's inevitable that Shimano and SRAM will make 11-40 and 11-42 10 speed cassettes.There's a gap in the market and neither company like losing out

Antm81

That's what I'm hoping, a nice 11-40 XT cassette will do me nicely.

njee20

ibbo68 wrote:

I think it's inevitable that Shimano and SRAM will make 11-40 and 11-42 10 speed cassettes.There's a gap in the market and neither company like losing out

I reckon you're gonna be disappointed.

sniper68

njee20 wrote:

ibbo68 wrote:

I think it's inevitable that Shimano and SRAM will make 11-40 and 11-42 10 speed cassettes.There's a gap in the market and neither company like losing out

I reckon you're gonna be disappointed.

I said it's inevitable not that I'm hoping so why will I be disappointed

njee20

You think it's inevitable.

You think wrong.

Better?!

sniper68

njee20 wrote:

You think it's inevitable.

You think wrong.

Better?!

We'll see.

BloggingFit

ibbo68 wrote:

njee20 wrote:

You think it's inevitable.

You think wrong.

Better?!

We'll see.

Yup, won't be seeing that happen on 10 speed.

Guernsey Donkey

$130 at todays rate is £86.94. US prices always seem to be quoted ex tax due to the rate varying from state to state so if we add UK VAT the price should be £104.33 plus any import duty.

poah

njee20 wrote:

ibbo68 wrote:

I think it's inevitable that Shimano and SRAM will make 11-40 and 11-42 10 speed cassettes.There's a gap in the market and neither company like losing out

I reckon you're gonna be disappointed.

how's that high up job at shimano and SRAM going for you

njee20

Pretty well, thanks. How's that job doing nothing but being sarcastic and making snide comments working out? You must be MD by now. :roll:

cborrman

Interesting, but while i am at it, i want 42t. Have been using an XX casette recently (11-36) and love how easy to clean it is with hollow design, and range is wide enough for my regular rides if i adjust the chainring to suit. I only need 11-42t for longer rides and will get a 42t and a crappy sram 1030 casette that came on a bike as the donor cassette. There is definately a gap in market for 10 speed, 11-42, will be interesting to see if big guys can adapt or not.

Votes now on whether the meeting(s) go: "trickledown" = yes; or "the future is 11 speed" = no.

I am personally also a single speeder and a roadie and perfer standard freehub, have 6 wheelsets across 4 bikes and use same chains across all bikes (amazing kmc-10sl) and so am on 10s for a while

Chunkers1980

Trouble with 10spd cassettes greater than 36t is that current mech are not optimally designed for them, so if Shimano did do an OE 10spd 11t to >36t cassette then they'd need a new mech too which is prob only going to come in 11 speed so will be new anyway - so why bother with a new 10spd.

lostboysaint

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Trouble with 10spd cassettes greater than 36t is that current mech are not optimally designed for them, so if Shimano did do an OE 10spd 11t to >36t cassette then they'd need a new mech too which is prob only going to come in 11 speed so will be new anyway - so why bother with a new 10spd.

Those will be the same mechs that everyone is using with their 40T cassette expander sprockets.........

Chunkers1980

What's your point?

They are not designed to. 36t is their max. Why do we have different cages and b-screws to help fudge them? I never said they don't work, but I guarantee, they don't work as well as my properly stepped 11-36.

Just giving reasoning behind why it's very unlikely we'll have an OE Shimano one.

cborrman

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Trouble with 10spd cassettes greater than 36t is that current mech are not optimally designed for them, so if Shimano did do an OE 10spd 11t to >36t cassette then they'd need a new mech too which is prob only going to come in 11 speed so will be new anyway - so why bother with a new 10spd.

rear mech size requirement is determined by maths and the number of teeth in the smallest and largest chainring, so while your point is true assuming a 42-32-22 3x set-up and long cage mech, or 38-26 2x set-up with a medium cage, this is no longer the case when running 1X, where a medium cage X0 can easily handle 42T.

It does raise the point tho; that the manufacturers may not want to introduce a 10-42 10 speed in case people try and install on a 3X setup?? having said that - when I ran 3X I used to get the 11-32 over an 11-36 because it was lighter and 22-32 can get me up anything I was going to pedal up.

And if the box says for 1X set-up only...

Chunkers1980

It's got nothing to do with the number of rings or capacity. Just the physical size of the cassette.

lostboysaint

Chunkers1980 wrote:

What's your point?

They are not designed to. 36t is their max. Why do we have different cages and b-screws to help fudge them? I never said they don't work, but I guarantee, they don't work as well as my properly stepped 11-36.

Just giving reasoning behind why it's very unlikely we'll have an OE Shimano one.

The point was simple, you claimed that the mech isn't "optimally designed" for use with a 40T sprocket and that because of this Shimano or SRAM would "have to design a new one". Well they wouldn't because plenty of people have proven that the existing mechs work perfectly well so there's no need for expensive R&D to create a new mech, simply create the new cassette that people want (and are currently creating for themselves using aftermarket parts) if you want to retain that share of the market.

Chunkers1980

There you are. "plenty of people" "work perfectly" People are all different. Some people's perfect is different to others. Some people's perfect is tainted by the upside of the greater range so would say perfect when it's not actually as good as it was but is perfect for them.

Shimano test their equipment to work their perfectly within certain parameters, like chain lines and all other angles that bike frame designs can have different - even the slightest - you get to the edge of these parameters and then introduce something else that's outside and it all doesn't work as well as it should. Shimano will have test rigs in labs where every single variable is changeable, sure you can go outside of the parameters but that will make something else worse and clearly with their current mech design 36t was seen to be the max without compromising anything else that may be on the edge.

poah

njee20 wrote:

Pretty well, thanks. How's that job doing nothing but being sarcastic and making snide comments working out? You must be MD by now. :roll:

don't be such a ghey drama queen

cborrman

Chunkers1980 wrote:

...but I guarantee, they don't work as well as my properly stepped 11-36.

Just giving reasoning behind why it's very unlikely we'll have an OE Shimano one.

There is no reason an OE 11-40 11-42 could not be properly stepped:

11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32-36-42, would give a max increase of 16.67% on any given cog just like an 11-36 with only one exception of 20% between 15 and 18: 20% is found on many 8 and 9 speed cassettes, for example a 'properly stepped' 8 speed 11-32

Chunkers1980

Yet again. That's not what I said.

Of course OE you could. But after market requires you to remove a sprocket.

cborrman

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Yet again. That's not what I said.

Of course OE you could. But after market requires you to remove a sprocket.

Sorry, was just going by what you wrote.

Those ratios / steps in my post are with the kit of the 42T, removing the 17t and swapping a the cog above or below with an 18T or 16T that the reputable 40/42T cassette cog suppliers sell alongside the 42T for proper conversion. From this I was suggesting an OE option that would have 'proper steps'.

For those who are interested, swapping the 19t for an 18t keeps maximum jump at 20%, whereas swapping the 15T for a supplier 16T gives a 23% jump. Both of these jumps can be found in OE cassettes so it may just be worth noting where you spend most of your pedal time. I spend a lot of time and notice the biggest difference in the top 3 cogs so would be tempted to go with the 16T that wolf tooth recommend anyway.

BloggingFit

Still won't be offered as OE from either manufacturer.

Shimano are believers in their ratio jumps to be so that pedal rhythm is retained. In their eyes over an 11 speed setup starting from 11t the optimum size for the largest sprocket is 40t so they would run against this and run an 11t - 40t setup over 10 speed.

SRAM are the original innovators of 42t and 11 speed so to drop down to 40t and have it across 10 speed would be seen as a downgrade for them.

We shall see something interesting introduce, just not 11t - 40t over 10 speed.

The Rookie

I agree, to late for an 11-40 10 speed now they have gone 11 speed.

Giraffoto

The best option I've seen for this is the one where you add the extra sprocket behind the cassette and sacrifice the 11T top. Can't remember who makes it, does anyone know what I'm talking about (here, not in general) and can they provide a link?

poah

absolute black

njee20

Nowt special about the Absolute Black expander, they just do a lockring if you want to remove the 11t. Hope, Superstar, Wolftooth etc all do expanders which work in exactly the same way.

Giraffoto

POAH wrote:

absolute black

and then njee20 wrote:

Nowt special about the Absolute Black expander, they just do a lockring if you want to remove the 11t. Hope, Superstar, Wolftooth etc all do expanders which work in exactly the same way.

Absolute Black it is. As I understand it, most of the products in this field require you to remove a sprocket from the middle of the cassette - often the 17T - leaving a noticeable gap. The selling point of the Absolute Black version is that you get to keep your 17T and only have to sacrifice the 11T.

However . . . .

The ratio of lowest:highest on an unmodified 11-36 cassette is 36:11, or 3.27:1. A modified 11-36 that is now a 12-40 has a ratio of 40:12 or 3.33:1. That's a 1.8% increase in the width of your gear range, which isn't an awful lot. It probably makes sense if you don't want to stump up for a different sized chainring to get your new lower gears though.