Santa Cruz Nomad quandary

tobamory

Morning guys happy Mother's Day, somive been riding an Alloy solo (5010) for a year and a half to get back into riding again, previously I had the orange 5 pro, and still have my orange e8 pro hard tail.

I'm looking at a bike for myself and the wife, she's currently riding my large solo and is only 5,6 but it seems to be fine which is good, meaning the next one can be the same for us both mwhahahahahahah

Anyway I've specked up the new magenta nomad as I fancy something with more all mountain appeal, the solo has been absolutely bulletproof not had any issue or punctures it's been great so I'm drawn to Santa Cruz again, however as always I'm open to you real pros guiding me.

Cost aside don't look at that but budget tops out at 6500 however I may finance it just to get the ENVE wheels on it..

But I see YETI bike seem good or I could save a few quid and get the new Giant Reign.

What's everyones views where would you pop your money should you have that budget....
Also after speaking to one of the guys at one of the Cruz resellers he told me to go Boss deville forks I run 32 140 fox kashima on the solo, are the devillies good?

I'm also torn between the 400 upgrade to XTR or should I save it and just go XO1

Ok I sound like I've already decided on the Nomad but no, just spent time spending it, what other bikes help me.....

BloggingFit

If you get the Nomad...

Don't bother spending out on the Enve wheels as there have been a few failures with rocks punching small holes into the sides. There are plenty of alternative carbon rim options which are at least as good, if not better, and a fraction of the cost.

XTR is good bit I don't know whether it would be £400 better than XO1. People tend to have quite divided opinions on which manufacturer they prefer. I'm a Shimano fan so I run XTR on mine and I find the lack of 42t on the rear a none issue. The brakes are superb and are the biggest selling point for me but the new Guides are now meant to be very good as well plus the integration with the Reverb Stealth lever is really clean. If you think you may need the extra range of the 42t on the rear then maybe this may determine your choice. A few have happily used XTR shifters and mech across a SRAM cassette so you could always mix and match.

Should you get the Nomad...

Depends on where you ride. If you are hitting up mainly softer trail centres then probably not. It pedals really well for what it is but it is still a big travel bike that will be harder work across more XC orientated trails.

Your Solo is a pretty capable machine for most of the UK trails and getting bigger travel may not make you any quicker, in fact possibly the opposite depends on where you ride. For forks I would go with a Pike over BOS purely for having to live with the fork long term. The performance of the BOS is superb with long service intervals but they have a reputation for not being the best should there be an issue with the fork for warranty work and spares. For value for money the Pike offers up nearly all the performance at a lower cost. Marzocchi 350CR is worth a look too although there had been some rumblings of reliability when released although I haven't personally come across any myself.

Alternatives...

Plenty of good ones about. Yeti, Giant, Trek, Transition are all good choices. I have a Trek Remedy Carbon which is 140mm travel but can cover ground more like a 120mm bike when required and find it excellent for pretty much 99% of the riding I do. I put a 150mm Pike on it to give it a bit more DH performance which worked a treat. Transition Scout is one bike that seems to be standing out for the shorter travel bikes as it's geometry is a bit slacker and longer.

Your best bet is to go and demo some options to see for yourself.

rockmonkeysc

Enve wheels are great, I would have them if I could. I know a few lads whp have them and they wouldnt have anything else. There have been failures but hit anything hard enough and it will break. With Enve you get a lifetime warranty.
I wouldnt have BOS forks, they are good but spares and service backup is terrible. I would rather have a Marzocchi 350ncr insted, awesome fork.
I think I would rather have the Reign than a Nomad. Its lighter and more suited to UK riding. The Nomad is a bit of a tank. Also take a look at the Transition Patrol.

Dick Scruttock

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Enve wheels are great, I would have them if I could. I know a few lads whp have them and they wouldnt have anything else. There have been failures but hit anything hard enough and it will break. With Enve you get a lifetime warranty.

I've now cracked two and trust me they aren't all that. One they have replaced under warranty, the other looks like it will be a crash replacement as it was caused by a rock impact into the side of it. The warranty is 5 years and pretty limited, not lifetime as you say, crash replacement however is for the lifetime of the rim.

Overall my Light Bike carbon rims have proved far more durable than the ENVE's and have covered exactly the same trails, ridden the same way as the ENVE's with no failures.

tobamory

Thanks guys interesting, reason I wanted the nomad is I sometimes do some fun downhill or big drop stuff, my brother lives around Hebden bridge so we mess about going off the front of Stubley pike etc, he was on his Orange Blood which in all fairness is all mountain and I felt much more at home dropping off stuff than my solo, but then that's what there for..

I am drawn towards the reign but the service I've had from the solo makes me want to control nude in that vein of reliability, not had a giant but I guess they will be good too.

The pikes I like I agree so that will save me cash, if I do go with it I'll get vivid air rear and pike front leave the wheels and then decide on the XTR XX1 debate, like the sound of the new XTR! My best would be XTR brakes XX1 drive but I don't think I can do that with a Cruz build....

Thanks for the wheels info, I'll check the others out...

My brow wife has just bought an 8k tallboy with ENVE and XTR feels very light in white, but she's using that for bi Athlon so I doubt she we et me have a go...

I'll keep you posted, the giant will save me a grand and half

Dick Scruttock

Go with a Monarch and think of other shock upgrades imho. Wait to see what comes out at sea otter classics from Fox, I think its going to be pretty exciting. Never really liked RS rear shocks, they are ok but others are better IMHO.

Think about slackening your solo out, I have a Solo and a Nomad. The solo has a angleset on it that slackens it by 1.5 degrees and its like a mini Nomad, its a proper trail ripper.

rockmonkeysc

The Monarch RCT3 is the worst shock I have had but current Fox CTD shocks are crap as well. Other than real high end stuff rear shocks have gone backwards in the last few years.
The Fox RP23 was better than the CTD .

paul.skibum

Not going to say whether you should buy a Nomad but I would go out on a limb and say there is no practical way a Large 5010 is the right size for a 5'6 woman. I am a 5'6 man and ride a medium Bronson and err on the side of it being too big for me.

If you have 6500 to spend get two bikes the right size for the two of you.

tobamory

yes Paul correct.

I did however test both medium Bronson and Large solo and to be honest not that much in it, but if I use the sizing guides your correct.

Ill take a look at the angles and maybe do what you say.

thanks

tobamory

Dick Scruttock wrote:

Go with a Monarch and think of other shock upgrades imho. Wait to see what comes out at sea otter classics from Fox, I think its going to be pretty exciting. Never really liked RS rear shocks, they are ok but others are better IMHO.

Think about slackening your solo out, I have a Solo and a Nomad. The solo has a angleset on it that slackens it by 1.5 degrees and its like a mini Nomad, its a proper trail ripper.

Dick did you buy the 1.5 ? and fit it yourself. I presume it comes with a 0 angle
Cant check as wifes gone to work on it today.

thanks

Dick Scruttock

Yes I bought the 1.5 and fitted it. It slackened out the solo a treat, its like a mini Nomad now. I would buy a works angleset in the future though or try a offset bushing in the shock first.

Hob Nob

paul.skibum wrote:

Not going to say whether you should buy a Nomad but I would go out on a limb and say there is no practical way a Large 5010 is the right size for a 5'6 woman. I am a 5'6 man and ride a medium Bronson and err on the side of it being too big for me.

If you have 6500 to spend get two bikes the right size for the two of you.

Disagree.

SC bikes are notoriously short - a large Solo sits somewhere in the reach department between a small & medium in some more 'progressive' brands. My wife is 5'9" & she's on a large Nomad, that, like for like is bigger than a Solo (but only about average now).

If the standover & seat tube length are good for your/her height, then go for it.

Regarding the other bits - no way would I consider ENVE. Cracked 2, they are a PITA to work with, if you need to true a wheel, its tyre & rim strip off, as some idiot thought it would be a good idea to hide the spoke nipples inside the rim. Running another brand of carbon rims now, but remain unconvinced by their benefits in general.

BOS forks - if you're buying, buy some second hand. The are easy to work on, and most suspension tuners can service them now, and replace the important bits. Bear in mind they haven't redesigned the lowers from the 26" fork yet - so you have virtually no clearance on the tyre, in the mud, they are useless.

Finally - the bike, I think there are better frames out there than the Nomad. It's not a bad bike at all, and it's finish is lovely - but it's a bitch to set up properly, due to the odd leverage ratio. I still think putting a coil on one would make it ride better.

Dick Scruttock

Hob Nob wrote:

paul.skibum wrote:

Regarding the other bits - no way would I consider ENVE. Cracked 2, they are a PITA to work with, if you need to true a wheel, its tyre & rim strip off, as some idiot thought it would be a good idea to hide the spoke nipples inside the rim. Running another brand of carbon rims now, but remain unconvinced by their benefits in general.

People who say ENVE are the best have no experience of them. I'd probably buy Derby's if I bought again.

rockmonkeysc

The people I know who have Enve wheels say they are by far the best they have had, one of them is an ex UKGE series winner, ex pro rider and writer for one of the biggest mtb magazines.

Dick Scruttock

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The people I know who have Enve wheels say they are by far the best they have had, one of them is an ex UKGE series winner, ex pro rider and writer for one of the biggest mtb magazines.

Must be true then! Probably heavily subsidised wheels from ENVE or the distributor.

rockmonkeysc

Dick Scruttock wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

The people I know who have Enve wheels say they are by far the best they have had, one of them is an ex UKGE series winner, ex pro rider and writer for one of the biggest mtb magazines.

Must be true then! Probably heavily subsidised wheels from ENVE or the distributor.

He had them on his bikes over a year before his shop started selling them. They even have a couple demonstrator sets with Chris King hubs. A lot of his customers are now using them after trying them and at £2k+ a pair those demo rides must be impressive. I always refuse to try them because I cant afford them.

Hob Nob

I've ridden Enve (broken 2), Derby (still got, cracked one of the first when they came out) & Light Bike.

If it wasn't for the stickers, I couldn't tell the difference.

Carbon wheels made the most sense on a 29" to me, as it meant you could still have a reasonably stiff wheel that didn't weigh a tonne. On the smaller wheelsize I still question the supposed benefit of the extra stiffness, and whether it's needed. It can have a negative effect to the handling, purely by being too stiff. The weight difference is fairly minimal over a decent, light alloy rim, and based on my own experience, no stronger.

paul.skibum

Hob Nob wrote:

paul.skibum wrote:

Not going to say whether you should buy a Nomad but I would go out on a limb and say there is no practical way a Large 5010 is the right size for a 5'6 woman. I am a 5'6 man and ride a medium Bronson and err on the side of it being too big for me.

If you have 6500 to spend get two bikes the right size for the two of you.

Disagree.

SC bikes are notoriously short - a large Solo sits somewhere in the reach department between a small & medium in some more 'progressive' brands. My wife is 5'9" & she's on a large Nomad, that, like for like is bigger than a Solo (but only about average now).

If the standover & seat tube length are good for your/her height, then go for it.

I am pretty normally proportioned arm and leg wise for my height - the standard kit on a medium Bronson is a 70mm stem which I dumped and got a 40mm on early on. But the real issue on the bike size for me was the limited amount of seat post I had for effective pedalling - upgrading to a dropper I maybe could have got a 125mm dropper on but went for a 100mm to be certain of the height available.

For me this is more the issue of a Large Solo for a similar height person, sure if you dont have a dropper its less a problem but the extra length top tube would be a deal breaker for me too, especially on steep technical riding as found in the Whistler area.

5'9 is an inch off the shortest height for a large so maybe tolerable with a suitably short stem but would your wife prefer a medium? Oh and a large Solo and a large Nomad have the same effective top tube but the solo actually has the longer seat tube albeit with a lower BB height to offset that.

I am a single guy but having tried to get people into riding and wanting them to enjoy the experience I believe that trying to make out that something fits when it doesnt is a sure fire way to get someone having a bad time/injury and them never going biking again. Just my opinion.

Hob Nob

paul.skibum wrote:

I am pretty normally proportioned arm and leg wise for my height - the standard kit on a medium Bronson is a 70mm stem which I dumped and got a 40mm on early on. But the real issue on the bike size for me was the limited amount of seat post I had for effective pedalling - upgrading to a dropper I maybe could have got a 125mm dropper on but went for a 100mm to be certain of the height available.

For me this is more the issue of a Large Solo for a similar height person, sure if you dont have a dropper its less a problem but the extra length top tube would be a deal breaker for me too, especially on steep technical riding as found in the Whistler area.

5'9 is an inch off the shortest height for a large so maybe tolerable with a suitably short stem but would your wife prefer a medium? Oh and a large Solo and a large Nomad have the same effective top tube but the solo actually has the longer seat tube albeit with a lower BB height to offset that.

I am a single guy but having tried to get people into riding and wanting them to enjoy the experience I believe that trying to make out that something fits when it doesnt is a sure fire way to get someone having a bad time/injury and them never going biking again. Just my opinion.

Which is odd, as you are riding the recommended size for your height, according to the guide. The point being, it's just a guide - always worth trying a bike to be sure.

Looking at the ETT doesn't give the full picture though, because of the longer ST, and slacker STA. It would feel about the same when sat & pedaling, but feel shorter when stood up compared to the Nomad.

She rode my Nomad on the valley trails round Whistler, found the extra length gave her more confidence, as there was more bike 'in front' on the steep stuff, this was after trying a medium. Whilst she rode mine, I rode a bigger bike of another brand (bigger than an XL Nomad), and also went quicker & felt more comfortable, rather than being all over the front of the bike.

Maybe i'm just a bit sulky, as I should have bought an XL & put a coil on it.

paul.skibum

Hob Nob wrote:

paul.skibum wrote:

I am pretty normally proportioned arm and leg wise for my height - the standard kit on a medium Bronson is a 70mm stem which I dumped and got a 40mm on early on. But the real issue on the bike size for me was the limited amount of seat post I had for effective pedalling - upgrading to a dropper I maybe could have got a 125mm dropper on but went for a 100mm to be certain of the height available.

For me this is more the issue of a Large Solo for a similar height person, sure if you dont have a dropper its less a problem but the extra length top tube would be a deal breaker for me too, especially on steep technical riding as found in the Whistler area.

5'9 is an inch off the shortest height for a large so maybe tolerable with a suitably short stem but would your wife prefer a medium? Oh and a large Solo and a large Nomad have the same effective top tube but the solo actually has the longer seat tube albeit with a lower BB height to offset that.

I am a single guy but having tried to get people into riding and wanting them to enjoy the experience I believe that trying to make out that something fits when it doesnt is a sure fire way to get someone having a bad time/injury and them never going biking again. Just my opinion.

Which is odd, as you are riding the recommended size for your height, according to the guide. The point being, it's just a guide - always worth trying a bike to be sure.

Looking at the ETT doesn't give the full picture though, because of the longer ST, and slacker STA. It would feel about the same when sat & pedaling, but feel shorter when stood up compared to the Nomad.

She rode my Nomad on the valley trails round Whistler, found the extra length gave her more confidence, as there was more bike 'in front' on the steep stuff, this was after trying a medium. Whilst she rode mine, I rode a bigger bike of another brand (bigger than an XL Nomad), and also went quicker & felt more comfortable, rather than being all over the front of the bike.

Maybe i'm just a bit sulky, as I should have bought an XL & put a coil on it.

I'd like to try a small Bronson to shorten it up but a 160 fork on mine has helped a little in that regard although its made it a little less easy to pedal.

tobamory

So after much looking and pricing, i think I'm looking at the new Giant Reign 1, it will save me a few 1000 and would i think tick the box for me. Ive spoken to Giant and for me at 5,11 and her at 5,6 5,7 the medium is where we sit...

However trying to find one on the UK it like rocking hoss poo, all on back order till May.... Giant need to pull there fingers out as I've seen this before lack of stock demos not turning up, does make me wonder....

If i do choose the Nomad, then i think i,ll go with

Pike
Vivid Air
X01
and leave the Rims and maybe at some point get them Yellow Maviks that seem to get a good review, alloy but stiff and light

I did get advised to go Boss Deville but every review i see says the Pikes as good.... is it really worth that extra 170 ? to should i save it and go XTR

rockmonkeysc

Try Stonehenge Cycles. They had a medium Reign last weekend, possibly two I think.

Dick Scruttock

Mavic enduro wheels are worth avoiding like the plague.

rockmonkeysc

Dick Scruttock wrote:

Mavic enduro wheels are worth avoiding like the plague.

Like all Mavic wheels really.

tobamory

Ok avoided

Keeping the standard wheels.

rockmonkeysc

Dirt have just reviewed the Nomad. It was not a positive review at all.

Dick Scruttock

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Dirt have just reviewed the Nomad. It was not a positive review at all.

They also are slightly retarded when it comes to suspension setup. They expect a manual with everything.

rockmonkeysc

Are you sure? One of their writers used to be an engineer for Rockshox, working on world cup dh bike suspension. Another was a mechanic for various world cup dh teams.

Hob Nob

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Dirt have just reviewed the Nomad. It was not a positive review at all.

Slight hyperbole.

But it is amusing reading the comments from the butthurt owners

BloggingFit

Read the review and they clearly struggled to get the bike set up to the liking of the test riders. Would be interesting to see how long they had the bike for. If it were a couple of days then that's no surprise. There have been plenty of owners that have taken weeks to dial in their Nomads and are now super stoked with them. I don't think painting up a Pike with the Vivid on that bike will ever produce a perfect setup.

Reviews have to be taken with a pinch of salt as each rider is different in terms of their body shape and type and how they like the bike to feel. The percentages will dictate that some will simply not got on with certain bikes. The other is that sometimes the sentiments and riding rigours of a test rider will be far removed from the average rider and with the reviewers being super critical as they are paid to do. But then if you a re dropping $10k on a bike you should be critical.

Long term reviews are a far better marker but unfortunately these appear few and far between unlike in the car industry. They mention the Capra which had rave reviews but there is no mention of the early frame cracking issues and poor quality of some of the components. I'd love to see long term reviews of both the Nomad XX1 build and Capra Pro to see how both fare after 6 months riding.

rockmonkeysc

I think part of the reason they are so critical is that for the price of the Nomad compared to something like a Giant Reign you would expect it to be a really exceptional bike.