Sneaky electric bikes

iPete

roger merriman wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

electric step though bikes with disk brakes, are thin on the ground.

Scott E-SUB Tour range http://www.cyclesolutions.co.uk/p73203/ ... ctric-bike
Giant E-Prime http://www.wheelies.co.uk/p73785/Giant- ... -Bike.aspx

Or just convert her current bike from as little as £500 ish...

i can't see £2000 for a new bike or a add on impressing to be honest, plus the having to charge it if not daily regularly, she uses her bike to commute to work, in all weather so its gets a hard life. even a nominal 40mile range would drop markedly in the colder months.

I don't know if both or either are shipping yet but you could probably convert most bikes with a Copenhagen or flykly wheel. I suspect when launched the Copenhagen wheel could be added to a modest new bike and still come in under £1k.

roger_merriman

iPete wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

electric step though bikes with disk brakes, are thin on the ground.

Scott E-SUB Tour range http://www.cyclesolutions.co.uk/p73203/ ... ctric-bike
Giant E-Prime http://www.wheelies.co.uk/p73785/Giant- ... -Bike.aspx

Or just convert her current bike from as little as £500 ish...

i can't see £2000 for a new bike or a add on impressing to be honest, plus the having to charge it if not daily regularly, she uses her bike to commute to work, in all weather so its gets a hard life. even a nominal 40mile range would drop markedly in the colder months.

I don't know if both or either are shipping yet but you could probably convert most bikes with a Copenhagen or flykly wheel. I suspect when launched the Copenhagen wheel could be added to a modest new bike and still come in under £1k.

they are cool bits of kit, but don't play with disk brakes and since my wife loves having brakes that stop, rain or shine...

elbowloh

Re. the Copenhagen wheel, it says range 31 miles and for the battery it says 1000 cycles.

Does this mean the batter needs replacing after 1000 charges?

The range is a little short, i'd say.

iPete

It seems you are likely to have to recharge daily and when the battery starts to face after 1,000 charges you have to send if back to be swapped.

They are both new products, I suspect as battery tech improves the future versions might be worthy of serious consideration.

rolf_f

BigMonka wrote:

I've got a friend who rides one. His commute is a rural 18miles each way and although he's quicker on his road bike (due to not being limited to 15mph and being much lighter) he uses the e-bike as it standardises the commute time even when there's a head wind or he's knackered. That makes a lot of sense when you've got three kids so need to be in places when you say you're going to be.

That's not really a convincing excuse! Lets be honest, if you commute on a daily basis then you know exactly how long your commute takes in all variations of weather (eg in my case, if on a windless day my commute home at this time of year took 40 minutes, I know it would be 37 with a tail wind and about 46 with a significant headwind). It doesn't matter whether you have a head or tail wind, you know you can be where you need to be when you need to be there - you don't need an electric bike for that. That's the beauty of cycle commuting. More realistically, your friend just can't be bothered with cycling 18 miles each way every day and there's nothing wrong with that.

pastryboy

Surely on a road bike with on rural routes (i.e. few stops) he'd also be quicker than 15mph anyway even taking it easy?

Cannot see why anyone would want one other than if they have a physical issue.

veronese68

pastryboy wrote:

Cannot see why anyone would want one other than if they have a physical issue.

A bit lazy and not used to the exercise. Probably covers a large chunk of the population. We are freaks as far as the great unwashed are concerned.

meanredspider

Veronese68 wrote:

pastryboy wrote:

Cannot see why anyone would want one other than if they have a physical issue.

A bit lazy and not used to the exercise. Probably covers a large chunk of the population. We are freaks as far as the great unwashed are concerned.

Even here, where people are used to biking, people think I'm crazy. I haven't seen any figures on how far the average Dutch bike commute is but I'm guessing it's not far.

iPete

I would own a Copenahagen wheeled SS bike (if I lived close enough to work to not warrant lycra)
If commuting was just that and not about training or exercise, just getting places safely and sweat free.

Far better than a scooter or public transport!

ugo.santalucia

iPete wrote:

It seems you are likely to have to recharge daily and when the battery starts to face after 1,000 charges you have to send if back to be swapped.

They are both new products, I suspect as battery tech improves the future versions might be worthy of serious consideration.

Assuming a 5 days a week use, take away holidays and bank holidays, that's at least 4 years worth of battery. Do you think Di2 battery or your iPhone battery will last any longer? I wouldn't think of it as a deterrant

dhope

ugo.santalucia wrote:

iPete wrote:

It seems you are likely to have to recharge daily and when the battery starts to face after 1,000 charges you have to send if back to be swapped.

They are both new products, I suspect as battery tech improves the future versions might be worthy of serious consideration.

Assuming a 5 days a week use, take away holidays and bank holidays, that's at least 4 years worth of battery. Do you think Di2 battery or your iPhone battery will last any longer? I wouldn't think of it as a deterrant

And chances are, if you're on the thing 5 days a week for 4 years then you'll have built up enough fitness to consider a normal bike for year 5

roger_merriman

meanredspider wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

pastryboy wrote:

Cannot see why anyone would want one other than if they have a physical issue.

A bit lazy and not used to the exercise. Probably covers a large chunk of the population. We are freaks as far as the great unwashed are concerned.

Even here, where people are used to biking, people think I'm crazy. I haven't seen any figures on how far the average Dutch bike commute is but I'm guessing it's not far.

End of the day people generally don't want to exercise on their commute.

I'm fairly surprised about dutch electric bikes mainly due to cost, and my understanding that bike theft was common?

meanredspider

No Dutch stereotypes going on there then, Roger?

You don't see many electric bicycles but electric scooters are very common (electric cars are incredibly common - Tesla taxis everywhere). Where I do see a lot of electric bikes is out of town on my weekend rides. Usually older folk on them and usually in social groups of 2-4. Saw my first electric tandem a couple of weeks back. The one upside in NL is that people are used to slow heavy bikes.

iPete

dhope wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

iPete wrote:

It seems you are likely to have to recharge daily and when the battery starts to face after 1,000 charges you have to send if back to be swapped.

They are both new products, I suspect as battery tech improves the future versions might be worthy of serious consideration.

Assuming a 5 days a week use, take away holidays and bank holidays, that's at least 4 years worth of battery. Do you think Di2 battery or your iPhone battery will last any longer? I wouldn't think of it as a deterrant

And chances are, if you're on the thing 5 days a week for 4 years then you'll have built up enough fitness to consider a normal bike for year 5

Who wants to get fit riding 4-6miles around London every day? I'd just be happy to get to work quicker than PT, in normal clothing and without feeling vulnerable.

roger_merriman

meanredspider wrote:

No Dutch stereotypes going on there then, Roger?

You don't see many electric bicycles but electric scooters are very common (electric cars are incredibly common - Tesla taxis everywhere). Where I do see a lot of electric bikes is out of town on my weekend rides. Usually older folk on them and usually in social groups of 2-4. Saw my first electric tandem a couple of weeks back. The one upside in NL is that people are used to slow heavy bikes.

I'm um repeating what various blogs and posters here, have said about biking in Amsterdam and so on, I have been but was a very long time ago.

RE the electric bikes in weekend rides that sounds more well understandable.

The Rookie

roger merriman wrote:

The Rookie wrote:

roger merriman wrote:

electric step though bikes with disk brakes, are thin on the ground.

Scott E-SUB Tour range http://www.cyclesolutions.co.uk/p73203/ ... ctric-bike
Giant E-Prime http://www.wheelies.co.uk/p73785/Giant- ... -Bike.aspx

Or just convert her current bike from as little as £500 ish...

i can't see £2000 for a new bike or a add on impressing to be honest, plus the having to charge it if not daily regularly, she uses her bike to commute to work, in all weather so its gets a hard life. even a nominal 40mile range would drop markedly in the colder months.

The mid mount add ones are a nice option, and fairly stealthy, come out well under £1K and of course can be moved to the next bike, the advantage is you can put the kit on the bike you have!

combatsapph

SecretSam wrote:

Right, I'm going to be dim. What's the point of an E-bike - why not just get an electric scooter - do you have to use the pedals?? I just don't understand them. How far and fast can you go? Can you still use them to 'keep fit'????

See? I really don't get it.

No tax (it'd be zero rate anyway but you get my drift), insurance, helmet, mot and you can ride wherever a normal cycle can go and not be restricted to roads only.

As far as distance, depends on how big the battery is and how much you rely on the assiatnce. I can get 50miles out of mine @ 15mph and moderate assistance (i.e. enough that I don't sweat) but I can of course keep pedalling after the battery runs out - it's not a very heavy bike and the motor freewheels when not powered so there is no resistance when pedalling "unpowered".

Speed? Well legally assistance should stop @ 17mph (15.5mph + 10%) but mine does upto 25mph. I have a three speed switch fitted that limits the bike to 12mph, "legal" and 25mph. The bike has a mechanism where it defaults to "legal" and you need to do something specific (which I wont go into detail on here for obvious reason) to enable the other modes. If I was involved in an accident and someone else tested the bike, it would only do the legal limit.

Keeping fit? I lost 10kg in the first 3 months of using my ebike and it's stayed off. I always pedal - just not enough to break into a sweat (which I don't want to do if commuting - it's a revelation commuting in trousers, shoes and a shirt and being able to sit straight down at my desk without having to faff about with a shower etc).

If I want serious exercise I go to the gym.

surrey_commuter

I am not moralising here but it seems as obvious as night follows day that somebody will end up dead as a result of an unrestricted e-bike and the shoite will truly hit the fan.

il_principe

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I am not moralising here but it seems as obvious as night follows day that somebody will end up dead as a result of an unrestricted e-bike and the shoite will truly hit the fan.

TBH 99% of ebikes currently sold in the UK do not conform to UK standards anyway. So i anyone riding an ebike clobbers someone else then the shit will hit the fan. The UK will finally be brought in line with Europe in April 2015.

Edit:

The EU-directive regulating pedelecs states that pedelecs that have powered assistance to a maximum of 25 km/h (15.5 mph) using a motor of no more than 250 Watts rated output are considered bicycles.

In the UK the limit is 200W in the UK. There very very few manufacturers producing 200W bikes.

secretsam

iPete wrote:

Who wants to get fit riding 4-6miles around London every day? I'd just be happy to get to work quicker than PT, in normal clothing and without feeling vulnerable.

Errr...I would, I see it as easy base training. As for feeling vulnerable, I feel vulnerable on the tube, and the behaviour of people on there frankly makes RLJ'ers look like saints. As for the summer months, the crowds, the costs...Yuck.

elbowloh

SecretSam wrote:

iPete wrote:

Who wants to get fit riding 4-6miles around London every day? I'd just be happy to get to work quicker than PT, in normal clothing and without feeling vulnerable.

Errr...I would, I see it as easy base training. As for feeling vulnerable, I feel vulnerable on the tube, and the behaviour of people on there frankly makes RLJ'ers look like saints. As for the summer months, the crowds, the costs...Yuck.

I had some guy tread on my feet 3 times and also bump into me a few times in the space of 5 minutes on the tube this morning. Contact is inevitable when it's rammed, but the train wasn't even that busy, he had no need to stand so close to me and it wasn't the motion of the train either, he just kept moving around. Have some fecking spacial awareness!

Also had the usual hoards of people trying to get on as people (including me) were trying to get off, in spite of the announcements for them to wait. I broke this morning and had to say "we're still trying to get off" to try to stop them.

The Rookie

It was probably a pick pocket trying to set you up!

iPete

SecretSam wrote:

iPete wrote:

Who wants to get fit riding 4-6miles around London every day? I'd just be happy to get to work quicker than PT, in normal clothing and without feeling vulnerable.

Errr...I would, I see it as easy base training. As for feeling vulnerable, I feel vulnerable on the tube, and the behaviour of people on there frankly makes RLJ'ers look like saints. As for the summer months, the crowds, the costs...Yuck.

No point in comparing it with the tube. I feel more vulnerable on the road if I'm riding no sweat pace at 10mph, slow off the lights etc. than I do in lycra lout mode. Having some extra boost would adjust for that.

And you as a cyclist choose to ride to get fit, most people just want to get to work without the aforementioned yuck on the tube. A Copenhagen wheel presents a good solution.

combatsapph

Surrey Commuter wrote:

I am not moralising here but it seems as obvious as night follows day that somebody will end up dead as a result of an unrestricted e-bike and the shoite will truly hit the fan.

I don't see why.

An unrestricted ebike is an unregistered motorbike so they just get dealt with like those mini motos or crossers the kids like to d**k about on - i.e. slapped wrist and maybe a fine and/or confiscation.

I can't see why it would affect legal ebikes at all.

Il Principe wrote:

TBH 99% of ebikes currently sold in the UK do not conform to UK standards anyway. So i anyone riding an ebike clobbers someone else then the shoot will hit the fan. The UK will finally be brought in line with Europe in April 2015.

Edit:

The EU-directive regulating pedelecs states that pedelecs that have powered assistance to a maximum of 25 km/h (15.5 mph) using a motor of no more than 250 Watts rated output are considered bicycles.

In the UK the limit is 200W in the UK. There very very few manufacturers producing 200W bikes.

The DfT state that any ebike conforming to EU standards is ok to use. Any person involved in an accident using such a bike, although not conforming to the exact letter of current UK law, will not be prosected as it would not be in the public interest.

The flip side of this is we can use an ebike with 250w nominal rating, 15.5mph (+10%) AND a throttle - whereas EU bikes can't have throttles.

Although, as you point out, this will change in April - http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/dft-upda ... ike-law-2/

The Rookie

You can't have a throttle as that wouldn't comply with EU regs and shouldn't therefor be waved....that said most the police don't have a clue, so unless you draw attention to yourself you can get away with a much more powerful e-bike and it's very very unlikely anything will happen.

combatsapph

The Rookie wrote:

You can't have a throttle as that wouldn't comply with EU regs and shouldn't therefor be waved....that said most the police don't have a clue, so unless you draw attention to yourself you can get away with a much more powerful e-bike and it's very very unlikely anything will happen.

Grandfather rights - if you've already got an ebike with a throttle it wont suddenly become illegal when the new law comes in.

The Rookie

Is there a legal e-bike with 250W AND a throttle? AIUI it has to be 200W and can have a throttle or 250W and pedalec, but you can't mix and match.....

combatsapph

Yes, because until the new rules come in you can have the throttle as per the BS standard and 250w as per the EU standard, for example:-

http://www.kudoscycles.com/product_info ... cts_id=326

il_principe

I wouldn't want to test that in a court of law. If you knocked someone down riding a 250W e bike and they sued you for loss of earnings etc.

The Rookie

combatsapph wrote:

Yes, because until the new rules come in you can have the throttle as per the BS standard and 250w as per the EU standard, for example:-

http://www.kudoscycles.com/product_info ... cts_id=326

2 sets of regs, it complies with neither to my mind..... the fact one of the two features is allowed in each doesn't make it legal.