How to Go Faster (Gearing)
Comments
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mustol wrote:Kajjal wrote:
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SloppySchleckonds wrote:NorvernRob wrote:Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.
one day.......
All it takes is a pot hole, debris on the road or a car pulling out in front of you or cutting you up and you hit the deck at 40mph + which is not going to go well.
So what difference would disc brakes make then? As long as you are always watching the road ahead, there's no reason why you should hit a pot hole or debris in the road. Going downhill fast is one of the joys of cycling - makes all the climbing worthwhile.
With disc brakes you have much more power and control over braking than rim brakes. Making braking later easier and going faster safer.0 -
cougie wrote:Kajjal wrote:
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SloppySchleckonds wrote:NorvernRob wrote:Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.
one day.......
All it takes is a pot hole, debris on the road or a car pulling out in front of you or cutting you up and you hit the deck at 40mph + which is not going to go well.
If you follow that thought through you'd never do any speed on a bike. I'd only do those kind of speeds if I knew the roads and I could see nobody was coming the other way. Where are you going to go on a singletrack if a car appears ?
You have answered your own question
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Speed comes when it comes. Let it come.
As others have suggested (and you seem to have accepted) gearing is not the answer in the case you offer.
Your bike (as described) has a nice spread of gears. You can change them, but you will have to make huge changes to notice much difference and it will be a costly exercise in faffing about.
First, many people run out of 'spin' at about 110rpm. If you whizz about (on all and any gradients) in a low gear for a while, you will get the hang of producing useful oomph at 120-130 and higher. Once you're doing it, it will seem natural and easy. Those are not 'cruising' cadences, but they will buy you cheap speed on a steep descent.
The best-best-best-best way of becoming comfortable at higher cadences - and at the same time becoming comfortable pedalling on steep descents - is to go for the happy madness that is fixed-gear cycling. You'll find you are whipping down big hills at 165-170. I believe some idiots go even higher, but I do not. You get supple, you get smooth and you get scared. And all below 34mph, if you have average fixed gearing.
Another way to increase speed is (as said above) to tuck. Different people do it different ways. On a hardtail MTB I hang off the back, but I dare not do that on a road bike. On drops, I keep my hands on the hoods and drop my chin to the stem with bent arms.
And... if you want free speed, do remember to keep lots of lovely air in your tyres. Anything over 110 bits of air per tyre (Imperial units) will keep you rolling well on most road clinchers.
So... Get the bike in good shape, pump the tyres up, get bendy, get brave and get low. Gearing is as nothing over 45mph when descending. At that speed (with a freewheel) the pedals are just somewhere to leave your feet.
Oh, and the poster who said you need dscs to exceed 40 (or similar) is a barmy porridge-brained laa-laa from the planet Barmy. Rim brakes are fine on tarmac. In fact they are excellent. Even above 40mph.
I hope I have helped, but I fear that perhaps I have not.0 -
I like going fast, I don't on unknown roads or roads that I know to be uneven, that's just common sense.
But don't forget, a motorcyclist can hit speeds of 60-80mph much easier and, at the end of the day, generally just have a helmet for protection at all. The leathers only really keep your skin on and body parts in the bag as it were0 -
Debeli wrote:
Oh, and the poster who said you need dscs to exceed 40 (or similar) is a barmy porridge-brained laa-laa from the planet Barmy. Rim brakes are fine on tarmac. In fact they are excellent. Even above 40mph.
I hope I have helped, but I fear that perhaps I have not.
That's not what I said
What I said was I wouldn't want to be going above 40mph without disc brakes as they give better braking power and control. Coming from mountain biking more than road biking I find rim brakes are poor in comparison being very tall and heavier than the average road biker. I hope you never get into a situation at 40mph + on a road when your brakes are not enough as it can lead to serious injury or worse.0 -
You've still got the same amount of rubber on the road though ? I know my rim brakes can lock up my wheels if I wanted them to.0
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cougie wrote:You've still got the same amount of rubber on the road though ? I know my rim brakes can lock up my wheels if I wanted them to.
I am guessing you have not tried good quality hydraulic disc brakes on a bike. It is not about locking wheels up but having much more powerful brakes with much more feel / modulation that take very little effort to use.
My old mountain bike had good quality rim brakes which worked fine. My newer mountain bike has good quality hydraulic disc brakes which means I can ride harder and faster right on the edge of traction with a lot more control over the braking. The difference is both power and control even in the wet where rim brakes really struggle.0 -
mustol wrote:Kajjal wrote:
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SloppySchleckonds wrote:NorvernRob wrote:Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.
one day.......
All it takes is a pot hole, debris on the road or a car pulling out in front of you or cutting you up and you hit the deck at 40mph + which is not going to go well.
So what difference would disc brakes make then? As long as you are always watching the road ahead, there's no reason why you should hit a pot hole or debris in the road. Going downhill fast is one of the joys of cycling - makes all the climbing worthwhile.
Exactly, it's not as if I'm doing 40mph+ around blind bends. There is pretty much zero traffic on those roads, junctions barely exist and you have long lines of sight. How does a car just 'appear'?
My point was about braking - when slowing for bends there is absolutely no lack of brakes, I could very easily lock the wheels if I grabbed a handful. But I don't. I brake before the bend, turn in then accererate out again. The principle is the same whether riding a bike or driving a car - brake in a straight line.0 -
It does make perfect sense.Biomech wrote:To me, more high gears still makes perfect logical sense, but you all know more than I do on the subject, and I've read about Chris Hoy's gear setup etc so it must be something to take on board :
Unfortunately it also means losing ratios at the other end. You have a very, very low, low gear. When you find you no longer depend on it, then bigger rings are calling.
Really it all depends what sort of areas you ride in. If you have lots of extraordinarily steep hills followed by similarly steep descents, then your gear setup is ideal. On more rolling terrain then a closer ratio cassette is an advantage, and you may then also want to move the entire gearset up the range by swapping the rings from 50x34 to 52x36 or 53x39. But you need a bit more confidence about climbing.
Anyway, what segment are you interested in going faster on?
Paul0 -
Kajjal wrote:Debeli wrote:
Oh, and the poster who said you need dscs to exceed 40 (or similar) is a barmy porridge-brained laa-laa from the planet Barmy. Rim brakes are fine on tarmac. In fact they are excellent. Even above 40mph.
I hope I have helped, but I fear that perhaps I have not.
That's not what I said
What I said was I wouldn't want to be going above 40mph without disc brakes as they give better braking power and control. Coming from mountain biking more than road biking I find rim brakes are poor in comparison being very tall and heavier than the average road biker. I hope you never get into a situation at 40mph + on a road when your brakes are not enough as it can lead to serious injury or worse.
Sir (or Madam),
I apologise if I offended. I paraphrased - and it appears I did so with less than complete accuracy.
Nonetheless, I find my earlier reference to barmy porridge-brained laa-laas from the planet Barmy perfectly accurate both for your original statement and for the one I quote above.
I love the phrase "coming from mountain biking", as if the two pursuits are on different solar systems. I have an early (and still used) steel Kona MTB which has no suspension and cantilever brakes. I also use a Pace aluminium thingy with Hope hydraulics and a boingy front end. They are both just bicycles.
As are road bikes. As are Bromptons. As are step-through shoppers.
I live among hills, so 40mph+ is a regular thing for me on the road (most good riders would go faster still, but I am not as brave as I once was). I do get into trouble - we all do sometimes - and I've never been in a situation where discs would have been the difference between falling and not falling - or crashing and not crashing.
Discs on an MTB are lovely - and they allow one-finger control and almost fade-free riding for hours... but on a normal road bike they are longed for only by barmy, porridge-brained laa-laas from planet Barmy.
You may think I am wrong, but I am not. Calipers will do the trick. Almost anyone can stand a road bike on its front wheel on a whim at almost any speed. Rim brakes do not lack stopping power.
Yours sincerely
Not A Luddite0 -
I have rim brakes (stock) and my wheels will lock up if I pull them too hard :P
Anyway, broke my speed record today and hit 42.4mph
I ride with a go pro, I forgot to check my cadence, but looking at the shadow of my legs, they don't look to be going that fast in the grand scheme of things. I also felt that every cycle was delivering something, where as with the 38.9mph previous ride last week, I felt I was spinning out0 -
50x11 isn't enough... who are you?!
I got 52-38-24 up front and 11-32t cassette. Gives a range of 20 gear inches all the way up to 125 gear inches.
I got 2 teeth more on my outer, I do end up in that 52x11 gear on some descents, but a gear beyond that would be overkill.
When I had a 48t on it wasn't quite enough and 50t probably won't have been.
Thing is I am on flat bars which again equates to getting away with slightly lower gearing (just can't get past 35mph, on drops I get to about 40mph if I dare).
Or just tuck your knees in and do that skiing position. 0 -
I find that my 50x12 setup is enough for anything here in the UK - You do end up spinning quite fast (and there isnt much point pedalling above 45mph) but below that I have never run out of gears...
I have been riding my roadie for almost 2 years now and my cadence has always been high (I had mtb's before - where you needed to be able to spin up hills and stand up + power up them depending on the terrain/who you were with). I don't know my cadence (I do use a GPS but it's a Walking/Cycling Garmin - meaning that it doesnt measure cadence. and I'm not that bothered about it either)
In terms of speed, my highest ever is 55.3 mph (I almost glazed the surface of my brake blocks stopping from it - there was a 90 degree bend at the bottom onto a bridge with a dry stone wall in front of you - very entertaining)
And I manage a reasonable 16.5 mph average on shorter (<30 mile) rides, and around 14.5 mph on longer (80+miles), with all my routes aiming for the hills - and there are a few round here... Greenhow hill anyone? And that's with my 12-26 tight gearing on the back and a 50-35 on the front
bob6397Boardman HT Team - Hardtail
Rose Pro-SL 2000 - Roadie0 -
I've said it many a time on here, but anyone that thinks their modern brakes are bad has clearly never tried Weinmanns with the old two tone pads. Or steel rims. Or both at once.
But I remember a couple of years back, when I had a top gear of 50x14, I could pedal up to just over 45mph, but no higher. There aren't any good long or steep stretches around here anyway.0 -
So just to set my brain straight, gears are;
Harder, high, top gear
Easier, low, bottom gear
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[quote="KajjalWith disc brakes you have much more power and control over braking than rim brakes. Making braking later easier and going faster safer.[/quote]
Still not going to help if you hit a pot hole! Never had a problem slowing down sufficiently at high speed with rim brakes and if you do have to stop suddenly, you will still lock up your wheels with disc brakes. I'm not denying that disc brakes may give a bit better control over your braking, especially in the wet, but having rim brakes should not stop you from descending at high speed - I'll take good bike handling skills over the type of brake you use any day.0 -
Biomech wrote:So just to set my brain straight, gears are;
Harder, high, top gear
Easier, low, bottom gear
?
You got it.
You may also hear taller or longer used (particularly on the track).
Gear inches is the most common way of describing a particular gear - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_inches
There are plenty of calculators etc out there that make it easy to compare different chainrings and cassette options etc.
A top gear will generally be something over 100 inches on a typical road bike, and the bottom gear under 40. A tourer or a mountainted bike might have gearing as low as 20inches.
But really, don't change your gearing just to go possibly a little faster down a particular Strava segment. Speed comes with fitness and can not easily be bought. If you really were crazy enough, wearing a skinsuit and aero lid etc. would be the best way of spending money to go faster downhill. But you'd be crazy to do that IMHO.0 -
Thanks
So a would a "big" gear be harder or easier? (and vice versa) I'm wondering if the "big" refers to the ratio - which would make pedalling harder, or the size of the sprocket, which would make pedalling easier :P0 -
You got it, big / high gears are harder to pedal, small / low gears are easier to pedal.
It's easy when you think of it in terms of your front gears as the bigger they are, the higher the gear.
But the confusion often comes with cassettes where the smaller sprockets are the harder gears.0 -
Yeah that was the trouble trying to work out whether I should be thinking in terms of ratio or sprocket size :P
Once I have a system, I can remember things. I'm just liking it to a car, top, high, big (number) gear is for when you're going fast. :P0 -
Biomech, you will see on that video that you linked that he is getting that really high cadence on the turbo on a really low gear (34 ring at the front, and probably about 21 at the back). That is good on a turbo as a way of improving fitness, but I would think even trying to get anywhere near that sort of cadence in a big gear going downhill out on the road would be dangerous. Save your energy for the flats and uphills.Biomech wrote:Spotted this Bike Radar video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ3XkCL0A6s
heh, it looks unreal, I don't know how fast he's going, but he looks like a cartoon!
I also looked up one of Chris Hoy, but his cadence doesn't seem particularly high.
Tangled - I find even at 40mph, for some reason, it doesn't feel fast fast, it just feels like you're going fast on a bike (like 15mph does as a kid), certainly not motorbike speeds or even 10mph over the speed of cars through town! (not that I exceed the speed limits of course)0 -
If you have a gear of 50/11 then the ratio is 4.54 (50 divided by 11).
Every full turn of the pedals your wheel will go around 4.54 times.
The circumference of a 'road' wheel is 2.1 m (+/- a few mm) or 0.0021 km.
If you pedal at 110 rpm then in an hour you would pedal 6600 (110*60) times.
In 50/11 @ 110 rpm your speed would be 6600 * 4.54 * 0.0021 = 63 km/h0 -
Well that is a thoroughly wrecked rear tyre! Pretty mental and impressive.marcusjb wrote:Biomech wrote:Now I'm going to youtube videos of 180 cadence as I really can't even imagine someones legs going that fast :P
https://vimeo.com/14930896#t=98s
Lovely bit of fixed descending.
I wouldn't recommend that though - brakeless fixed and big mountains take some skill, balls and a bit of stupidity.0 -
Biomech wrote:
To me, more high gears still makes perfect logical sense, but you all know more than I do on the subject, and I've read about Chris Hoy's gear setup etc so it must be something to take on board
At high speeds air resistance is > 90% of the total resistance and increases with the 3th power.
Lets assume that you are riding 40Mph dowhill, which equals 500 W power output at the flat (just as an example)_
To raise the speed to 41 Mph you need app. 550 W.
Do you think you can push out 550 W for more than 3 seconds?
It has nothing to do with gears, it's about sustainable power output.0 -
I remember reading Tony Martin had a special 58 tooth front ring on his TT bike (wiggins might have as well), and it came out for pan flats. No offence but if those two don't need it, you wont.0
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Or you can just use the form below to work out what speeds in different gears at various cadences. You just need to input your chainrings, cogs and tyre size if different from the defaults on the form and the click the Calculate button:whoof wrote:If you have a gear of 50/11 then the ratio is 4.54 (50 divided by 11).
Every full turn of the pedals your wheel will go around 4.54 times.
The circumference of a 'road' wheel is 2.1 m (+/- a few mm) or 0.0021 km.
If you pedal at 110 rpm then in an hour you would pedal 6600 (110*60) times.
In 50/11 @ 110 rpm your speed would be 6600 * 4.54 * 0.0021 = 63 km/h
http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence0 -
sjmclean wrote:I remember reading Tony Martin had a special 58 tooth front ring on his TT bike (wiggins might have as well), and it came out for pan flats. No offence but if those two don't need it, you wont.
They both do/have - though Martin generally uses a bigger chainring than Wiggins. Many testers do, at all levels - part of it is being able to push big gears with bigger sprockets, and pedal at lower cadence. Nik Bowdler is a more extreme example.0 -
Yep good luck Miles. Hopefully he will have better luck than Steve A.- - - - - - - - - -
On Strava.{/url}0
