How to Go Faster (Gearing)

Biomech

Hi,

I would like to go faster on my bike Specifically, I was wondering what is the best, cheapest, and easiest ways to give myself more "harder" gears. I saw harder, as I never know which way around the top/bottom is.

I realise the speed relies on various factors from declines to aerodynamics. What I find is that I'm maxing out at around 39mph even on a steeper decline because my legs can't keep up so I'm essentially free wheeling. at 39mph on my hardest gear (top?) on a local segment, my cadence is 110+.

I find up hills very difficult (best effort so far is a category 5, 5-6% incline, cadence at 84 = roughly 8-10 mph)

So I'd like to keep my easy gears (bottom?) as they do get used. But would like some more "go" when I get the speed up.

Someone suggested changing just the larger chainring for one with more teeth.

I know this all sounds a bit ambigious, so here's the spec of my bike as you'll no doubt understand it a lot more than me. All I know is that it has a "compact chainset"

http://www.rutlandcycling.com/150510/pr ... green.aspx

Any advice would be great, thanks

(fwiw, the stem, bars, pedals and seat have all been replaced)

Biomech

Sorry, I think as I type..

So I have a 34/50 at the front and 11/32 at the back.

So my "hardest" gear would be 50-11 which is a higher gear ratio than the easiest which is 34-32. So an easy gear is a "low" gear and a harder gear would be a "high" gear right? (like a car, a higher gear for when you're going faster)

So if I, I don't know how it works, but say changed the large change ring to a 60, I'd maintain my easy 34-32 gear but have the harder 60-11 for when I was up to speed.

Is it easy / how would I see what kind of impact that would have in the middle? I'd like to avoid having a big jump between (what is now) 34-11 and 50-32

(would I be correct in saying the hardest gear on the smallest chainring would be 34-11, which is a ratio of 3.09 and the easiest gear on the biggest chainring is 50-32, a 1.56 ratio - that seems like a big jump enough to make my understanding wrong)

crikey

Pedal faster.

You could change the chainset for a semi which has a bigger outer ring like a 53, but if you can't pedal faster you're not going to go faster.

...and if you put a 60 chainring on, you'll be considered a fool.

simon_masterson

This is not the answer you want, but the truth is that your fitness is the problem, not the gears, and that is what you need to work on. 50x11 is a big enough top gear for just about anyone - in fact the 11t cog is unnecessary for nearly everyone that doesn't race.

Biomech

But surely it would be better to ride at 80c with a higher gear choice than 150c at a lower gear?
(have I still got high and low confused? :P)

Another question I had - if I were to ever change the chainset or chianring - would I have to change the STI levers or does it all just work on tension?

TBH, I'm more likely to buy a second bike than change this one.

kajjal

I would concentrate on your fitness to go faster up hills and on the flat. Personally I wouldn't like going 40 mph + on a bike without disc brakes.

Biomech

I love going fast down hill It's a straight road with good visibility.

So, just so I understand, you're saying I should get my fitness up so that I can pedal with a cadence of 120+?
I appreciate the input, but that just seems strange to me :P

hooters

You sound about as unfit as me

Don't worry about the downhills, they're over far too quickly as it is, just tuck in and enjoy the breather! Concentrate on getting fitter and improving your ascents / flats to get the best bang for your buck on improving your average speeds. They are, after all, the most satisfying part of cycling.

crikey

Cycling has a long and glorious history, and it is reasonable to assume that if a 60 tooth chainring was a needed thing, someone would be making and supplying it.

You could try to fit one, but your front derailleur wouldn't work and the amount of chain slack you would need to maintain the ability to use your lower gears would cause all kinds of issues. Plus, you'd only be in the 60-11 for about 2 minutes, pedalling slowly.

If you want to go down hill faster work on getting more aerodynamic and pedalling faster and stop thinking that you can buy performance; it's not a car.

I appreciate the input, but that just seems strange to me

Trust us, it's for your own good.

nweststeyn

By the time you 'spin out' in 50x11 you would do well with working on getting into your 'aero tuck' and picking up more speed this way. Like lots have said, it's very rare to need a bigger gear than that, and when you do a 52 or 53 tooth chainring is about as big as it goes for even the very fastest cyclists in the world.

marcusjb

Work on your fitness - it will impact every area of your riding, including being able to spin faster down the hills (if that is what you want to do).

We all love going downhill fast - it's one of cycling's great joys. But there are few hills in the UK where it is safe or long enough to really make use of a big gear even if you have the legs and balls for it. If you want to go fast downhills, pedalling isn't really the way to do it - watch the pros descend, they are not pedalling much, other than to regain speed when they exit a tighter corner. You will typically be faster when tucked than when trying to pedal. Aero matters so much more than power on descents.

Putting a bigger gear on for the sake of going down hills is an asinine solution to your issue.

Ride up lots of hills & ride faster on the flat lots = go down the hills faster

If you really want to learn how to really spin, get a fixed wheel bike and ride up and down lots of hills.

nweststeyn

marcusjb wrote:

Work on your fitness - it will impact every area of your riding, including being able to spin faster down the hills (if that is what you want to do).

We all love going downhill fast - it's one of cycling's great joys. But there are few hills in the UK where it is safe or long enough to really make use of a big gear even if you have the legs and balls for it. If you want to go fast downhills, pedalling isn't really the way to do it - watch the pros descend, they are not pedalling much, other than to regain speed when they exit a tighter corner. You will typically be faster when tucked than when trying to pedal. Aero matters so much more than power on descents.

Putting a bigger gear on for the sake of going down hills is an asinine solution to your issue.

Ride up lots of hills & ride faster on the flat lots = go down the hills faster

If you really want to learn how to really spin, get a fixed wheel bike and ride up and down lots of hills.

Evidence that what marcusjb said is correct:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxXqQqAc2pA

nweststeyn

P.S. Just for reference (and not a brag - I'm very slow compared to pretty much every racer I know) I have exceeded 50mph quite a few times with a 'smaller' gear than you, 50x13.

Biomech

Thanks again

I've been reading while you've all been typing and see that velodrome riders hit 180+ which seems insane!
I also found an article on people spinning out and the first thought being more gears being wrong
As well as a forum discussion on increasing gears over 110c :P

But what you've all said makes sense I guess.

When I bought my bike about 6 months ago, I came here and made a post about cadence, how I felt 65 was really comfortable and couldn't imagine my legs moving at 90+ without flying off. Over Christmas I sat around 75c - now when I go out I ride at 83-86c, not so much because I can, but because it's just so much more comfortable. To ride at 75c now actually seems to be harder than riding at 85! So I guess getting up over 110 is just a thing of time and practice

So, work on the hills and flats and I guess if the time came to change the gears it would be more a case of going up from that 11 then.(?)

I was after the speed as there's this segment locally, the other day I went from 70th to 10th for fastest and the top guy has done it with an average speed of over 40mph and 50 seconds. (I went from 1m6s to 58s after giving it beans, zipping, tucking and wearing skin tight clothes only heh)

My hills definitely need work although are much better now. Hills are 8-10mph, flats 18-21mph (nice cruising speed) with downhills usually 28-34mph, which has given me an avg of 14.8-15.2 on most of my routes - up from 13.2 avg 6 months ago.

Like before, I can't imagine anyones legs going 180c without flying off, but hey, I guess it can happen!

simon_masterson

crikey wrote:

Cycling has a long and glorious history, and it is reasonable to assume that if a 60 tooth chainring was a needed thing, someone would be making and supplying it.

You could try to fit one, but your front derailleur wouldn't work and the amount of chain slack you would need to maintain the ability to use your lower gears would cause all kinds of issues. Plus, you'd only be in the 60-11 for about 2 minutes, pedalling slowly.

If you want to go down hill faster work on getting more aerodynamic and pedalling faster and stop thinking that you can buy performance; it's not a car.

I appreciate the input, but that just seems strange to me

Trust us, it's for your own good.

It's available, but it's bigger than many top time triallists use, and certainly not something typically found on a road bike, at any level. It makes sense under the hypothesis of bigger cogs = lower friction, though - wait until Brailsford decides to put Sky on 80/66 chainsets with 20-36 cassettes...

nweststeyn

norvernrob

Kajjal wrote:

I would concentrate on your fitness to go faster up hills and on the flat. Personally I wouldn't like going 40 mph + on a bike without disc brakes.

Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.

To the OP, my highest gear is 50/12 and I can pedal past 40mph. Most of the time I'll be tucked by then anyway though.

JayKosta

Is your 110 max cadence caused by 'bouncing off the saddle'? If so try pushing yourself a little more rearward on the saddle.

If you just can't pedal any faster, then just practice more.

Changing to a larger front 'big ring' will give more speed for the same crank rpm, but it will also affect how the change between small ring and big ring feels.

Also, loss of skin and bodily functions from crashes rises exponentially at speeds above 30 mph ... OK, I made that up - but bad things do happen more quickly at high speed.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

nweststeyn

I like this thread because the OP asked a question and actually took on board the advice given. A rare thing in these here parts.

sloppyschleckonds

NorvernRob wrote:

Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.

one day.......

tangled_metal

My all time top speed is 58mph freewheeling after running out of "bite" on my gears. I'm not sure but I believe back then I'd stick my behind off the saddle and even have my stomach on the saddle to elongate my position on the bike. Not sure how effective but it was after hearing about a famously good rider at the TdF downhill sections did that. Anyway that stretch I always managed over 50mph so I'm guessing it's the hill not me.

One thing I will say, my old road bike just seems to run better than bikes many times the price. It's a 25 year old steel road bike with original parts so I'm guessing something about old style hubs or the probably worn bearings.

The biggest resistance to speed is due to the air you displace so aerodynamics is important. I've tested this on my hybrid. On the same flat section I gain over 2mph for the same effort just by bending my arms to lower my upper body over the bars by a relatively small amount. If I tucked down on drop bar bike I reckon that aero gain is a lot more. As you speed up on downhill sections I'd expect this increase due to being aero would increase.

However, on a ride I tend to spend more time on the flat or uphill sections than short and sweet downhills. That means more scope to increase your average speed. The only way is to be able to get more power out for a given effort, i.e. get fitter. Of course improving your aerodynamics will help. Perhaps tri bars?

Biomech

Is your 110 max cadence caused by 'bouncing off the saddle'? If so try pushing yourself a little more rearward on the saddle.

Me? No bounce, just my legs spin but the bikes going too fast for my legs to put any more power in, it's like the pedals are trying to catch up to the wheels. :P

I like this thread because the OP asked a question and actually took on board the advice given. A rare thing in these here parts.

Thanks I've spent a lot of time on the Internet and the amount of people who who pop up asking things without bothering to look and then kick off when they don't get the answer they want is ridiculous.

To me, more high gears still makes perfect logical sense, but you all know more than I do on the subject, and I've read about Chris Hoy's gear setup etc so it must be something to take on board

Now I'm going to youtube videos of 180 cadence as I really can't even imagine someones legs going that fast :P

tangled_metal

One more thing, +50mph is scary. I found I reached a point where I had the choice of slowing and being safe or go faster and accept that anything goes wrong and it'll hurt...lots. I also wore a helmet for that invisibility feel that came with youth.

Now, over a decade since, I won't happily go above 40/45mph. I now get more pleasure from riding the flats faster and hills better. I reckon I'm probably not much slower and possibly faster for doing this.

Biomech

Spotted this Bike Radar video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ3XkCL0A6s
heh, it looks unreal, I don't know how fast he's going, but he looks like a cartoon!

I also looked up one of Chris Hoy, but his cadence doesn't seem particularly high.

Tangled - I find even at 40mph, for some reason, it doesn't feel fast fast, it just feels like you're going fast on a bike (like 15mph does as a kid), certainly not motorbike speeds or even 10mph over the speed of cars through town! (not that I exceed the speed limits of course)

nweststeyn

I don't go as fast as I used to on descents anymore. A few crashes (at more sensible speeds) made me realise just how likely it is that I would die if I crashed at 50mph.

kajjal

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SloppySchleckonds wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.

one day.......

All it takes is a pot hole, debris on the road or a car pulling out in front of you or cutting you up and you hit the deck at 40mph + which is not going to go well.

mustol

Kajjal wrote:

e

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.

one day.......

All it takes is a pot hole, debris on the road or a car pulling out in front of you or cutting you up and you hit the deck at 40mph + which is not going to go well.

So what difference would disc brakes make then? As long as you are always watching the road ahead, there's no reason why you should hit a pot hole or debris in the road. Going downhill fast is one of the joys of cycling - makes all the climbing worthwhile.

cougie

Kajjal wrote:

e

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

NorvernRob wrote:

Lol why not? I went over 40mph on several descents yesterday - on twisty single track roads, in the wet, with carbon wheels. Not once did I think I wasn't going to stop for a corner.

one day.......

All it takes is a pot hole, debris on the road or a car pulling out in front of you or cutting you up and you hit the deck at 40mph + which is not going to go well.

If you follow that thought through you'd never do any speed on a bike. I'd only do those kind of speeds if I knew the roads and I could see nobody was coming the other way. Where are you going to go on a singletrack if a car appears ?

iron-clover

It's good to see the advice being taken on board.
As the others have said don't go and get harder gears for your bike if you already have a 50x11, this is already the hardest gear anyone should ever really need here in the UK at least.

Putting 'harder' gears on your bike will also reduce the number of usable gears you have for general riding. The ideal setup has gaps between the gears as small as possible so you can pedal comfortably in every situation- and putting that hard sprocket on will sacrifice a more useable one elsewhere in the cassette. I personally run 50x12 as my hardest gear, and although I could make use of a 50x11 gear in most of my rides, it would only be used for a very tiny fraction of the time for overall very little gain. And I would either have to lose one of my useful lower gears for climbing up those hills or have a wider spaced gearing on the cassette- neither of which I want to do.

I do however have a 52x11 max gearing on my TT bike as on most of the courses I do there will be a fast section where I will want that gear to keep a fast speed without a massive cadence- I stay at about 90-100rpm in TTs and much faster cadence can destabilize me whilst I'm on the aero bars.
I have no such issues on the road bike though and can hit nearly the same speeds just by spinning, and I have gone far faster on my road bike than I ever have on the TT bike.

I would definitely echo the caution given by some of the others about going really fast on a bike- it can be fun in the perfect conditions, but you also have very little protection and if you do have an accident the results will be catastrophic. The only crash I've ever had was at just over 20mph and after a brief acquaintance with a poor road surface I was left with deep grazes up my entire left side and a 10cm long 3rd degree burn on my forearm- it's been nearly 4 years now and I still can't feel anything on it. I was very lucky I didn't break anything, but even so being bandaged literally head to toe in the middle of August is never much fun...

If you come off your bike at 50mph, you can expect to lose an awful lot of skin and possibly even tissue underneath, and if you hit anything solid (such as a tree or post) then you would probably be very lucky to survive the impact let alone ever be able to walk/ cycle again. Just look at the campaigns aimed at reducing casualties on the roads from being hit by cars, except in this case you're the one that's moving.

Instead of trying to increase your maximum speed I would personally focus on your overall fitness and technique, and increasing your average speed over the whole of your ride- cycling becomes much more fun when you know you can ride out to far off places and back in relatively short times and be able to explore further and further afield.

thefd

Biomech wrote:

So if I, changed the large change ring to a 60

This won't work - the jump between 34 and 60 is too big - the derailleur won't manage this.

marcusjb

Biomech wrote:

Now I'm going to youtube videos of 180 cadence as I really can't even imagine someones legs going that fast :P

https://vimeo.com/14930896#t=98s

Lovely bit of fixed descending.

I wouldn't recommend that though - brakeless fixed and big mountains take some skill, balls and a bit of stupidity.

I'm done by 170rpm on mine and even then, it needs to be very smooth and clear sightlines before I'd let it go to that. I do run two brakes though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN7p7mOXI_g&t=75

Cool POV ^