Bike Radar bollox

t4tomo

from their 21 Sportive tips article

Learn to ride clipless

Using cleats and clipless pedals dramatically reduces the effort needed to cycle, providing power from your legs virtually all the way around the pedal stroke.

really "dramatically" - any think there are 30% more efficient with SPDs?

Learn how to change a puncture

Everyone gets punctures, they’re especially common on the roads less travelled sportive organisers choose to avoid traffic, so it’s really important you know how to change a puncture

good advice, shocking grammar. I tend to change the inner tube.

bompington

t4tomo wrote:

Learn how to change a puncture

Everyone gets punctures, they’re especially common on the roads less travelled sportive organisers choose to avoid traffic, so it’s really important you know how to change a puncture

good advice, shocking grammar. I tend to change the inner tube.[/quote]
When I get a puncture, there is a hole in the inner tube on one of my wheels, and an intact inner tube in my seat bag.
Once I've finished changing it, the hole is in my seat bag, and the tube on the wheel is undamaged.
ergo I have just changed the puncture. Non?

ai_1

bompington wrote:

t4tomo wrote:

Learn how to change a puncture

Everyone gets punctures, they’re especially common on the roads less travelled sportive organisers choose to avoid traffic, so it’s really important you know how to change a puncture

good advice, shocking grammar. I tend to change the inner tube.

When I get a puncture, there is a hole in the inner tube on one of my wheels, and an intact inner tube in my seat bag.
Once I've finished changing it, the hole is in my seat bag, and the tube on the wheel is undamaged.
ergo I have just changed the puncture. Non?[/quote]
Very good

IanRCarter

t4tomo wrote:

from their 21 Sportive tips article
really "dramatically" - any think there are 30% more efficient with SPDs?

Good job you don't write articles for BikeRadar, shocking grammar.

bendertherobot

There's an interesting video, GCN I think, where they compare (using sciency stuff) SPD and platform pedals.

VO2 gases measured more using the SPD cleats than the platforms which suggests that non SPD is better.

However, on watching the video you'll note that he uses the same type of shoe in both versions. S Works carbon sole SPD SL in the first and S works SPD in the second.

http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/W ... man2058,94

I think something gets missed here and that's are stiff soled shoes more efficient? And, if so, what's the optimum. Generally stiff soled shoes will be, by their very nature, SPD or SPD-SL (generally).

FWIW I doubt there's much in it in a proper sciency way. But, whenever I go out with trainers on I am constantly moving round the pedal and my calves are knackered..........

ai_1

bendertherobot wrote:

There's an interesting video, GCN I think, where they compare (using sciency stuff) SPD and platform pedals.

VO2 gases measured more using the SPD cleats than the platforms which suggests that non SPD is better.

However, on watching the video you'll note that he uses the same type of shoe in both versions. S Works carbon sole SPD SL in the first and S works SPD in the second.

http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/W ... man2058,94

I think something gets missed here and that's are stiff soled shoes more efficient? And, if so, what's the optimum. Generally stiff soled shoes will be, by their very nature, SPD or SPD-SL (generally).

FWIW I doubt there's much in it in a proper sciency way. But, whenever I go out with trainers on I am constantly moving round the pedal and my calves are knackered..........

I think maximum output is definitely higher when attached to the pedals and I think it's also easier to maintain a higher cadence. Comfort, in my case is also far better using clipless pedals. Like bender, I find myself constantly adjusting my foot position when using platform pedals. Perhaps if I got used to it again, this would lessen. Also I find platforms make my feet sore after a while due to localised loads on the sole of the foot. Presumably stiff soled shoes would sort this out.

bendertherobot

I have to say I'm surprised he even managed to keep his foot steady on the platforms. They are designed, IMO, for flat surfaces and not the raised minimal tread of MTB shoes.

imposter2.0

Nice to see this topic back again

The only thing clipless really offers you is security of attachment and a consistent foot position. But that's definitely a useful thing to have. I remember reading a study a few years ago which demonstrated that riders on clipless generated no more power than when using flats.

frisbee

It's pretty dramatic when your foot slips off the pedal and you land on the top tube!

veronese68

frisbee wrote:

It's pretty dramatic when your foot slips off the pedal and you land on the top tube!

This is very true, and painful. :shock:
Also if the puncture has gone from your wheel to your bag you have only changed the location of the puncture, you haven't changed the puncture. So you have moved the puncture, or relocated it if you want to make it sound more technical.

bompington

Well, maybe, but then you haven't changed the tube either, you've just moved that too.

Man Of Lard

frisbee wrote:

It's pretty dramatic when your foot slips off the pedal and you land on the top tube!

I've been that soldier - well almost, slipped off a flat pedal & I managed to somehow stand on the front derailleur, which held long enough to prevent a testicle/crossbar impact as I slowed down enough to stand.

That was the last time I used a flat pedal.

Presumably had there been an impact, I'd have been suffering from "Bike Radar bollox"

team47b

"Everyone gets punctures"

I stick needles in my stomach everyday and lancets in my fingers and I have not gone flat

seanoconn

team47b wrote:

"Everyone gets punctures"

I stick needles in my stomach everyday and lancets in my fingers and I have not gone flat

Why do you only weigh 54 KG? All the escaped air.

Anonymous

I would say clipping in is dramatically different. Night and day to me ;-)

Not so sure on the power/effort claim, but thats not the reason I clip in, so the advantage is what it is. Its just a bonus.

cougie

I use clips and straps as I'm racing duathlons at the moment. Can't say I've noticed any power loss. I wish it was 30% better with clipless - but I'm sure it's nowhere near.

Maybe I should do my FTP test with both pedal types to see.

saftlad

Imposter wrote:

...

The only thing clipless really offers you is security of attachment and a consistent foot position. But that's definitely a useful thing to have. I remember reading a study a few years ago which demonstrated that riders on clipless generated no more power than when using flats.

No increase in peak power I can understand, but I would have expected an increase in total power created during the full rotation of a crank as you can create power in more than 30% of the rotation rather than letting the momentum of the pedal carry it around. Pretty difficult to generate any power in the pull-up if you're not using any clips/straps and your foot is just resting on the pedal.

ai_1

saftlad wrote:

.....I would have expected an increase in total power created during the full rotation of a crank as you can create power in more than 30% of the rotation rather than letting the momentum of the pedal carry it around. Pretty difficult to generate any power in the pull-up if you're not using any clips/straps and your foot is just resting on the pedal.

Oh oh!
Escalation alert! :shock:

bompington

Ai_1 wrote:

saftlad wrote:

.....I would have expected an increase in total power created during the full rotation of a crank as you can create power in more than 30% of the rotation rather than letting the momentum of the pedal carry it around. Pretty difficult to generate any power in the pull-up if you're not using any clips/straps and your foot is just resting on the pedal.

Oh oh!
Escalation alert! :shock:

Nah, you surely can't believe that anyone would be interested in multi-page threads where people fall out over pedalling technique and whether power through the full cycle makes any difference?

ai_1

bompington wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

saftlad wrote:

.....I would have expected an increase in total power created during the full rotation of a crank as you can create power in more than 30% of the rotation rather than letting the momentum of the pedal carry it around. Pretty difficult to generate any power in the pull-up if you're not using any clips/straps and your foot is just resting on the pedal.

Oh oh!
Escalation alert! :shock:

Nah, you surely can't believe that anyone would be interested in multi-page threads where people fall out over pedalling technique and whether power through the full cycle makes any difference?

You're right, I'm over-reacting. Carry on as you were...

cougie

Ai_1 wrote:

saftlad wrote:

.....I would have expected an increase in total power created during the full rotation of a crank as you can create power in more than 30% of the rotation rather than letting the momentum of the pedal carry it around. Pretty difficult to generate any power in the pull-up if you're not using any clips/straps and your foot is just resting on the pedal.

Oh oh!
Escalation alert! :shock:

http://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fi ... bhvdjqp.97

diy

If we are talking flats vs clips, then yes I'd say the benefits are around 20-30%. Its not just about power or vo2, its about how your foot sits, how the muscles fatigue, if you end up scrunching your toes, adjusting your feet etc etc. Far more noticeable on a long ride.

ai_1

diy wrote:

If we are talking flats vs clips, then yes I'd say the benefits are around 20-30%. Its not just about power or vo2, its about how your foot sits, how the muscles fatigue, if you end up scrunching your toes, adjusting your feet etc etc. Far more noticeable on a long ride.

This sounds about right to me, I simply couldn't ride comfortably for long distances in flexible shoes on pedals. However, it may be something you can train yourself to deal with. Certainly some elite multisport (mostly adventure race) athletes stick with running shoes on platforms to save on transition time and they still seem to perform very well on the bike.

Moonbiker

I don't think there is any difference but im probably doing it wrong.

Ridden e.g 140 miles audax with platforms no straps . Foot never slipped off pedals once etc also ridden with clips & felt no difference, but would be nice to be 30% faster with clips , maybe my clips aren't set right.

E.g 15mph average speed up to 19.5mph :shock: if pedaling is 30% more effiecent?

EDIT need to factor in increasing wind resistance and higher speed

Anonymous

More efficient, not faster.

May find you can go 1 or 2 mph faster over the whole duration, or be less fatigued at the end. May also help on hills or when going full glass.

diy

Its definitely an efficiency/fatigue thing.. Not measurable in power/HR terms.

I could sit on a wattbike and turn out the same 20' test flat or spd, but if I did it regularly I reckon I'd have some pain in my foot and shin longer terms with flats.

FatTed

Ai_1 wrote:

bompington wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

saftlad wrote:

.....I would have expected an increase in total power created during the full rotation of a crank as you can create power in more than 30% of the rotation rather than letting the momentum of the pedal carry it around. Pretty difficult to generate any power in the pull-up if you're not using any clips/straps and your foot is just resting on the pedal.

Oh oh!
Escalation alert! :shock:

Nah, you surely can't believe that anyone would be interested in multi-page threads where people fall out over pedalling technique and whether power through the full cycle makes any difference?

You're right, I'm over-reacting. Carry on as you were...

http://wattbike.com/uk/blog/post/how_do ... joanna_row

awavey

there was a british cycling members training tip recently covering clipless, and it kind of made sense what they were saying that with trainers because they flex, a proportion of the energy you put into each pedal stroke is wasted/lost in that flex, whereas stiffer soled shoes transfer more of that energy direct to the pedal, the clipless thing itself, just gives you that more secure link to the pedal so you dont slip off, so you could say its just the stiffness of the shoe that counts not the actual connection with the pedal.

saftlad

cougie wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

saftlad wrote:

.....I would have expected an increase in total power created during the full rotation of a crank as you can create power in more than 30% of the rotation rather than letting the momentum of the pedal carry it around. Pretty difficult to generate any power in the pull-up if you're not using any clips/straps and your foot is just resting on the pedal.

Oh oh!
Escalation alert! :shock:

http://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fi ... bhvdjqp.97

Well I've learnt new something today :oops:

diy

I think this diagram makes it easier to see which muscles are working:

kingrollo

Dunno about the % increase. But of all the upgrades clipless pedals is not one to skip IMO. It reduces the need to mash down on your knees