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Nutrition tips

PB dreamerPB dreamer Posts: 23
Hi,

Was wondering if any of you guys and girls could help me, needing some advise on post training/road ride fuelling. It seems after each 40+ mile ride, I am completely spent for the whole afternoon, I make sure I take on a recovery drink and a good meal after but is there anything that you would suggest that I eat/drink.

Also is there any good eating plans out there?

Thanks in advance

Posts

  • If you're eating some simple carbs soon after you finish, it may be that you're just not fit enough. But you do need to get your blood sugar level back up.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • I did think about the sugar levels, ill try and add that to my plans after the next long ride and see how I get on.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    Unless you are training at a particularly high level, there's no real need for an 'eating plan' - just eat normally. You don't say how long you have been riding, or if your riding is aimed at any kind of performance target. If it isn't, or if you are new to the sport, then as MRS says above, you might just need to get fitter and recover better, which will come in time.
  • I recently read a good paper that indicated that insulin levels stay very high for 30 minutes or so after a hard ride. That's going to mean that your blood sugar levels drop leaving you feeling cold and tired. Getting some simple (high GI) carbs onboard (with a bit of protein if you fancy it) will help and also boosts your glycogen storage (what the insulin is doing amongst other things). A bowl of cereal, drink of chocolate milk, nesqik, etc are all the kinds of things people use.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Chocolate milk, as recommended by Obree!

    I always go with that and cereal.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • kajjalkajjal Posts: 3,380
    Chocolate milk, as recommended by Obree!

    I always go with that and cereal.

    I find a chocolate milkshake helps after longer rides. Other factors are fitness, general diet, sleeping properly, medical conditions, age, how stressful and demanding your life is etc. it's very easy to be fit in your twenties but harder work as you get older.
  • crikeycrikey Posts: 362
    Best nutrition tip is that you don't need to eat as much as you think. Don't be going out for a couple of hours then adding a chocolate milkshake to your usual diet; you'll feel better, but get fatter.

    If you are fuelling your training while out on the bike, you don't need extra when you get back.

    TL:DR; eatin' is cheatin'.
  • crikey wrote:
    If you are fuelling your training while out on the bike, you don't need extra when you get back.

    TL:DR; eatin' is cheatin'.

    Well - based purely upon the research I read, I'd say you be better off eating a little less on your ride and eat a bit either at the end or just before it. Especially if you want to train again in the following days.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • cyco2cyco2 Posts: 593
    Try this-- Get a mars bar and and eat half of it just 15min before you ride or try 1"x 2" piece of Flapjack. This I find lasts up to an hour of hard riding .Use plenty of glucose in your drink. Don't rely on the replenish of your glycogen, just don't use it.
    ...................................................................................................

    If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
    However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    cyco2 wrote:
    Don't rely on the replenish of your glycogen, just don't use it.

    You can ride hard for an hour and use NO glycogen? Get yourself to the science lab and volunteer for testing right away...
  • kajjalkajjal Posts: 3,380
    crikey wrote:
    Best nutrition tip is that you don't need to eat as much as you think. Don't be going out for a couple of hours then adding a chocolate milkshake to your usual diet; you'll feel better, but get fatter.

    If you are fuelling your training while out on the bike, you don't need extra when you get back.

    TL:DR; eatin' is cheatin'.

    Who you calling fat :)
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    PB dreamer wrote:
    Hi,

    Was wondering if any of you guys and girls could help me, needing some advise on post training/road ride fuelling. It seems after each 40+ mile ride, I am completely spent for the whole afternoon, I make sure I take on a recovery drink and a good meal after but is there anything that you would suggest that I eat/drink.

    Also is there any good eating plans out there?

    Thanks in advance

    Why don't you either go for a shorter ride or take it easier? the 40+ ride is obviously too much for you at your present level of fitness, no amount of nutrition is going to make up for this OR there is stuff you haven't mentioned. You need to build your fitness and not run before you can walk.
  • JayKostaJayKosta Posts: 635
    Much of recovery depends on your age, and your 'athletic history'.

    If you have not been doing regular 'athletic training' for more than say 5 or so years, then it will just take additional time to get your body adjusted to the stress of multi-hour exercise. You will adjust, but probably not to your preferred time schedule.

    And if you are older than about 35 years, "things ain't the same as when 25".

    Using a recovery drink (or chocolate milk) soon after exercise, and then thoughtful meals is about all that can be done.

    Jay Kosta
    Endwell NY USA
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    I think its the "eating a good meal" that is the issue. If you work your nuts off and then have a big meal, you'll pretty much zonk until its digested. The body has to work quite hard digesting food in large quantities.

    A small amount of carbs and protein to replenish what you spent.

    In terms of eating plans - kinda depends on what you are trying to do.
  • cyco2cyco2 Posts: 593
    Imposter wrote:
    cyco2 wrote:
    Don't rely on the replenish of your glycogen, just don't use it.

    You can ride hard for an hour and use NO glycogen? Get yourself to the science lab and volunteer for testing right away...

    Would you say your statement (? - what's that for) is a generalization because it does not allow for different levels of diet criteria and individuals energy usage and production.
    ...................................................................................................

    If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
    However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    cyco2 wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    cyco2 wrote:
    Don't rely on the replenish of your glycogen, just don't use it.

    You can ride hard for an hour and use NO glycogen? Get yourself to the science lab and volunteer for testing right away...

    Would you say your statement (? - what's that for) is a generalization because it does not allow for different levels of diet criteria and individuals energy usage and production.

    If you have a way of exercising without using glycogen, I think we'd all like to hear it...
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    Being totally pedantic, it is possible: Glycogenolysis is not the only way to produce energy for muscles. If you fast for a decent period of time and then max yourself out for a few hours you'll pretty much be running on fuel from gluconeogenesis. Even though the Liver will be hard at it, you'll be "exercising without using glycogen."
  • cyco2cyco2 Posts: 593
    diy wrote:
    Being totally pedantic, it is possible: Glycogenolysis is not the only way to produce energy for muscles. If you fast for a decent period of time and then max yourself out for a few hours you'll pretty much be running on fuel from gluconeogenesis. Even though the Liver will be hard at it, you'll be "exercising without using glycogen."

    I'll go along with that. Also if you keep your blood sugar (glucose) levels well up then you will not go into the glycogen bank. In a long event where it's possible to deplete all your glycogen you'll be in trouble so it makes sense to keep replenishing your glucose levels. As everybody is not the same the the rate of glycogen replenishment can differ and in some case have a malfunction. There are many reasons for this and can be fixed and I'm sure the NHS would not fund it unless it was serious. Don't you agree :lol:
    ...................................................................................................

    If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
    However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    Maybe if you are doing a ride of under 20 minutes. But anything else is going to consume glycogen. For a typical avg. Zone 2-3 ride of an hour or two, you will consume most of the glucose in your blood in the first 10 minutes or so, then its going to be a mix glycogen and fat depending on the level of intensity. After about 2-4 hours you'll consume more fat.

    Mileage may vary and pre-ride consumption does impact this, but you'd have to have a fairly clever set-up to keep running on consumed glucose. I'm no expert on this and I'm sure others may have a view.

    For long events, I'd say learn to cope in the fat burning phase, lots of ways to do this.
  • cyco2cyco2 Posts: 593
    diy wrote:
    Maybe if you are doing a ride of under 20 minutes. But anything else is going to consume glycogen. For a typical avg. Zone 2-3 ride of an hour or two, you will consume most of the glucose in your blood in the first 10 minutes or so, then its going to be a mix glycogen and fat depending on the level of intensity. After about 2-4 hours you'll consume more fat.

    Mileage may vary and pre-ride consumption does impact this, but you'd have to have a fairly clever set-up to keep running on consumed glucose. I'm no expert on this and I'm sure others may have a view.

    For long events, I'd say learn to cope in the fat burning phase, lots of ways to do this.

    Yes, but what about the glucose in your stomach, what about the glucose in your back pocket ,in your bottle or your cafe stop. There is absolutely no need to deplete your bodies glucose with stores like that. With plenty of opportunities to stock up your bodies glucose store there is no need to call on glycogen for fuel.
    I would also say that teaching your body to burn fat would be like teaching a budgie to fart. :roll:
    ...................................................................................................

    If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
    However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
  • JayKostaJayKosta Posts: 635
    The difficulty with getting adequate 'calorie intake' for events longer than about 1-2 hours is that digestion can't keep-up with a calorie usage of perhaps 500+ Cal per hour.
    Yes, you can eat/drink more calories - but they do not get digested quickly enough to meet the per-hour need.

    The 'general thinking' is that the glucose already in the blood/muscles and the easily accessible glycogen in the liver can provide adequate calories for about the first 1-2 hours without need for additional food intake. Longer than that and you need a 'fueling plan' that started in advance of when the glucose is need by the muscles.

    Jay Kosta
    Endwell NY USA
  • cyco2cyco2 Posts: 593
    JayKosta wrote:
    The difficulty with getting adequate 'calorie intake' for events longer than about 1-2 hours is that digestion can't keep-up with a calorie usage of perhaps 500+ Cal per hour.
    Yes, you can eat/drink more calories - but they do not get digested quickly enough to meet the per-hour need.

    The 'general thinking' is that the glucose already in the blood/muscles and the easily accessible glycogen in the liver can provide adequate calories for about the first 1-2 hours without need for additional food intake. Longer than that and you need a 'fueling plan' that started in advance of when the glucose is need by the muscles.

    Jay Kosta
    Endwell NY USA

    You're making it sound like rocket science. From experience it only takes about 15min to absorb an isotonic drink with glucose in it but a little and often will eradicate this period. Then together with a high calorie food you can keep the body functioning happily for hours. Providing you keep the blood sugar levels up you should not need to use glycogen or burn fat
    ...................................................................................................

    If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
    However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.
  • Worth checking The Feed Zone Cookbook and Feed Zone Portables easy and tasty ways of using real food rather than cheap nasty sugars to fuel your rides.

    A good article here in plain language - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/1 ... -food.html

    Happy riding.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,473
    I think it would be helpful here to distinguish the difference between consuming glycogen and depleting glycogen. Gaining an understanding of how fueling works is extremely important for anyone attempting longer endurance rides of say more than 10 hours.

    The only way you have any chance of avoiding consumption of glycogen, is by either not having much to start or by keeping the exercise duration or intensity so low/short that you can work entirely off glucose in the blood or fat.

    Assuming you start out normally fed, watered and not in the process of developing type 2 Diabetes: What you consume depends on how long you exercise and the level of intensity. No matter how much sugar you cram in your mouth - your body will burn Glycogen (after a short period of time) and fat. if your ride is 2-3 hours lets say then its easy to stay topped up with some caffeine/sugar gels etc which will stretch out the consumption of glycogen. However, if you are going longer/further, you need to learn how to perform in the fat burning zone. You'll also want slow release carbs, rather than sugar spikes.

    When you consume a gel for example, most of the feeling of energy you get, is the extremely short term sugar spike and the caffeine.
  • Pot Noodle n a Coke.

    Job done... :D
  • hostmanhostman Posts: 104
    Pot Noodle n a Coke.

    Job done... :D

    Not sure a kettle will ft in my back pocket.
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