What do people recommend for mid range 4 x 4

Yellow Peril

verylonglegs wrote:

Pross wrote:

Why are people so anti 4x4s? I'm just getting rid of ours, I wouldn't have one for the fun of it but we tow a horse trailer to take my daughter to shows. We have kept it just for that in the past with the wife using a Seicento as her day to day car but it wasn't cost effective. The 4x4 was needed for the towing (point me in the direction of a non 4x4 that can tow 2.5 tonnes legally) but no doubt people at various points have thought 'why are they driving around in that big tank?'.

But you are in the minority, having one for pratical reasons, that's why they have a bad reputation. The company car park is littered with them and I can say none of them are used for towing, off-road use or any other flaky justification. People buy them because they like the elevated driving position more than anything from what I can gather but that's about it. There is no practical reason for a pre-dominately road user to own one.

Very much this^. Ironically on those occasions whereby I'm faced with one in a narrow lane standoff it's invariably me that's taken to the verge (in my Nissan Note which has enough room for 2 adults 2 adult size children and 2 Dalmatians) to allow the "Landy" to use the road. It's become a bit of a standing joke on our travels.

More importantly I've been T-boned by cars on a couple of occasions whilst out cycling. Both times I ended up over the bonnet which I guess was a combination of high rider height and average bonnet height. I suspect I would have ended up underneath the wheels of most rural style 4x4's.

Get a Skoda estate like they have in those TdF ads, I think they're cool.

MountainMonster

Who cares what people chose to spend their money on? Help the guy with his request, don't tell him he is wrong. I wouldn't touch an E class Merc for what are probably flaky reasons, but that doesn't matter as it is my decision.

dabber

I've got a Santa Fe which I've used on numerous trips down to southwest France with it loaded up to the gunnels (including furniture), bikes on the back, stuff on the roof rack. Just very practical and drives easily. Handles potholed roads with no problem, the big tyres make the wheels not so vulnerable as low profile tyres.
It handles moderate and occasional snow conditions OK without needing to resort to winter tyres and the swopping around that this entails. Good in narrow lanes when driving on the verges to get past oncoming traffic doesn't cause any concern. Just a very practical vehicle.
Btw, I've also go a Skoda Octavia estate. A very nice and practical car which I enjoy driving more than the Santa Fe but when it comes down to a pure workhorse the Santa Fe has the edge.

Pross

meanredspider wrote:

If you need to tow 2.5 tonnes (which is a lot - is that two horses?) then you need something heavy to tow it. My E-Class will tow 2.1 tonnes. I don't think people are anti 4x4s when they're required it's just so many of them really aren't required and are either fashion accessories or used as tanks (for "safety"). Because they are heavy, they are thirsty and more of a danger to other road users.

ETA - out of curiosity, I looked up horse trailers

Larger cars can tow a horse trailer safely; there is a recommended towing weight normally in the hand book. This is a recommendation and it is not illegal to exceed this. In most cases the weights can be kept within the recommendations, our horse trailers weigh approximately 880 kg. With one horse approx 1300 kg and with two horses approx 1700 kg. Our trailers have a maximum permitted weight of 2300 kg.

Most larger estates will tow 1700kg no problem.

Usually take 2 horses (around 1.2t combined weight and the trailer is around a ton). However, the laws on towing are a bit of a grey area. Some information I've read says that your vehicle has to have a maximum Gross Train Weight in excess of the maximum mass of the vehicle plus the maximum gross weight of the trailer even if the trailer is empty. I've never found a definitive answer if this is true or not but I have heard of insurers refusing to pay out where the car was not capable of towing the maximum gross weight even if it wasn't towing that at the time of an accident so best not to risk it. It's also good to be able to tow the weight in comfort up sometimes steep roads and as someone else said even though the horses are penned in they can still move so having the weight of vehicle to not get destablised by that is also a benefit. Another factor that gets overlooked is the maximum nose weight a vehicle can take from a trailer. Many caravans only require 75kg so a car is fine but our trailer is 100kg.

One thing I can say is that our 13 year old Frontera isn't a fashion accessory or status symbol My own car is a Nissan Quashqai, it's 2 wheel drive and does over 50mpg and has a slightly better Encap pedestrian safety rating than the Nissan Leaf mentioned above but is 4x4 style so I'm not quite sure if that fits into good or bad territory on here and other than marginally higher fuel consumption and CO2 emissions surely the 4x4 isn't any different?

As for an answer to the original what about a Qashqai or a Skoda Yeti?

bdu98252

Qube wrote:

How about a Skoda Yeti??

Tough cars and the back seats fold down so you have a minivan too!!

And they don't have the overpowering looks of some 4x4s.

Just throwing it out there! I don't own one, but have heard good things.

I have a skoda yeti and think it is pretty good. Not the best economy but around 40mpg and the boot with the parcel shelf removed is excellent. With bikes on the roof we can go away for a weekend with the two young children as long as we are not camping then we take the campervan. Pretty nice to drive too.

laurentian

A mate of mine had a way of telling whether a 4x4 was a "want" or "need".

Towbar present = "need" therefore 4 x 4 justifed.
No Towbar present = "want" therefore w**ker!

debeli

I used to spend a lot of time in hilly (mountainous) parts of Italy and France and the original Panda 4x4 was bought, cherished and worked very hard as a runabout, farm dog and general family transport in some ridiculously steep and snowy places. You'd see them coming through roads that might stop a Unimog. The transmission was a Steyr-Puch job, not an in-house Fiat thing.

In the UK, the Panda 4x4 was seen as an oversized Tonka toy for the delusional, but in its intended market, it ruled.

In fact, as I recall it continued to be sold in France and elsewhere long after the FWD version had gone.

Now there's a new Panda (OK, not so new... a second generation Panda). It also has a 4x4 version, which may (like the last one) be better than many in the UK might have supposed.

As earlier posters have noted, with good tyres and careful driving, most FWD cars can match 4x4 in all but the boggiest conditions.

meanredspider

Debeli wrote:

As earlier posters have noted, with good tyres and careful driving, most FWD cars can match 4x4 in all but the boggiest conditions.

My brother farmed in France - he had a 2CV van - NOTHING was stopping that baby (well, except maybe a strong headwind )

The original Panda 4x4 is amazing too.

secretsam

If you really want something unstoppable, why not go to one of those military surplus places and get yourself a nice tank? I hear the Challenger II is pretty unstoppable.

Alternatively, a Scooby Outbackriderstyler thingy should do the trick, all the farmers on my rides seem to do the whole Subaru thing...

saprkzz

I would highly recommend the Freelander. After owning many smaller cars/sports cars, I bought a freelander and loved driving it.
Was the most reliable car I owned and I had 3 MTB's with 3 people and kit INSIDE of it!.. We regularly drove to bike places like wales/Swinley etc 2 UP with bikes inside. Best was road bikes as you don't need to take the wheels off to shut the boot.

I owned mine for the longest I have owned a car which was 4 years, and sold it 4 weeks ago as it was high mileage and I fancied something else. I nearly went for the facelift FL and considered the new discovery sport, but bought something different within the LR range instead.

Would have no problem in recommending one.

ai_1

A pony?

andyrr

We've a Citroen Crosslander (pretty much the exact same as Mitsubishi Outlander and a Peugeot something).
Seems ok : pretty good boot space with the standard rear seat up, has skinny extra set of seats to take another 2 passengers which reduces boot space to minimal. Not that many of these around - more of the Outlander versions which I've seen the Police use so that is maybe a recommendation of sorts.
1st to 2nd gear is developing a mild crunch which seems to be a weakness on them, grr but other than that it is drives fine for a not massive 4x4 thing.
Std is 2WD, knob to put into 4WD and also lock the diffs. Since we got it (18 months ago) the winters haven't seen the roads around us too snowy/icy but a few times on my wife's drive to work she has engaged 4WD for the minor roads and she has been happy with it - she loves it, I nickname it 'The truck' but it isn't really that HGV like, just in comparison to my 12 yr old Golf.

Monkeypump

laurentian wrote:

A mate of mine had a way of telling whether a 4x4 was a "want" or "need".

Towbar present = "need" therefore 4 x 4 justifed.
No Towbar present = "want" therefore w**ker!

Has your mate got nothing better to do than judge people on their vehicle choice? I'd probably put him in the 'no towbar present' gang.

Anyway, to the OP - how about a Subaru Forester? Seems to be one of the off-roaders of choice (aside from a Ranger Rover or Defender) for a lot of people who actually use their vehicle off road.

Personally, I have a Kia Sportage. Why? Because I wanted something of that type, and it was the one I liked best. Maybe a bit small if you're considering the Santa Fe, so what about the Sorrento? I partly justified it by wanted something comfortable that I could 'step into', as the last car (BMW 320 M-Sport) played hell with my back.

The only down-side for me is the fuel economy, but I might have a heavy right foot, and I chose the bigger diesel engine as it's often heavily laden (no towbar though!). Aside from that, it's very comfortable indeed, has seen some off-road miles and coped well within its expected limits, and (for the price) had all the kit I wanted. Equivalent brands were between £5k-8k more for similar spec, although I lease mine in place of a company car. I would recommend it highly.

rick_chasey

Monkeypump wrote:

Has your mate got nothing better to do than judge people on their vehicle choice? .

How else do you judge people when you see them in a car?

pblakeney

Rick Chasey wrote:

Monkeypump wrote:

Has your mate got nothing better to do than judge people on their vehicle choice? .

How else do you judge people when you see them in a car?

Best not to judge in the first place.

meanredspider

People do judge though. I'm always amazed how the car that you drive alters the behaviour of other road users. Extreme example but I had a spell of driving a Ford XR3i Cabriolet (don't ask) - people hated me on the road. No-one would let me out of junctions or move in on motorway lanes (preferring, instead to speed up to absurd velocities). When I finally got back into my regular car at the time (an Alfa 164) the world became a much nicer place. When I drove my 1970's Alfa Spider, it almost felt like people wanted to give me a little hug.

The same is true now. E-Class estate and Fiat 500 and you get treated very differently (bizarrely, women hate pulling over to let the Fiat past). Even this model of E-Class, with its more aggressive lines, brings out a level of contempt that the older, softer, shapes didn't.

bdu98252

You might be reading a bit too much into people motives and mindset there.

ai_1

meanredspider wrote:

People do judge though. I'm always amazed how the car that you drive alters the behaviour of other road users.....

On the other hand while it's by no means 100% accurate, there are definitely trends in driver behaviour that correlate with the car they drive. To give a few examples, in Ireland (there may be regional variations):
Nissan Micra drivers tend to be slow, overly hesitant, unpredictable and have poor observation. Since historically they've been the cheapest mainstream cars to buy, tax and insure and because they seem unintimidating, they've attracted learner drivers, older drivers with limited funds and nervous drivers. There are good Micra drivers about but a huge proportion fit the profile. Of course once the stereotype exists its somewhat self propagating as most other drivers will avoid a Micra like the plague to avoid damnation by association.
Renault Megan drivers are always more likely to drive very conservatively and hesitantly. If you're following one down a slip road onto a motorway there's a high probability they'll refuse to accelerate to high enough speed to merge properly and may end up stopping at the end of the slip lane waiting for the enormous gap they now need. Similarly they tend to come to a halt on speed bumps and wait until a roundabout is completely empty before proceeding. Again, this does not apply to all Megane drivers but when I'm behind one I'm aware there;s a fairly high probability of this driving style.
Prestige car (BMW X5 and Land Rovers among others drivers have a tendency to be arrogant and discourteous and to break the rules of the road more often than others. There's actually statistical evidence from a US study to back this up although I can't provide a reference right away. Various psychological studies have also shown that the more successful and powerful people become, whether by luck hard work or both, the more they presume they have what they have because they deserve it. They tend to feel entitled to more respect, to exceptions being made for them and they feel that others with less are not their equals and often treat them with a certain amount of scorn. Yet again, I'm sure there are plenty drivers of prestige vehicles that this doesn't apply to.

So on average some car types have drivers more likely than others to act in certain ways. Of course a big part of people's attitude to big car drivers is purely envy based.

laurentian

Monkeypump wrote:

laurentian wrote:

A mate of mine had a way of telling whether a 4x4 was a "want" or "need".

Towbar present = "need" therefore 4 x 4 justifed.
No Towbar present = "want" therefore w**ker!

Has your mate got nothing better to do than judge people on their vehicle choice? I'd probably put him in the 'no towbar present' gang.

Anyway, to the OP - how about a Subaru Forester? Seems to be one of the off-roaders of choice (aside from a Ranger Rover or Defender) for a lot of people who actually use their vehicle off road.

Personally, I have a Kia Sportage. Why? Because I wanted something of that type, and it was the one I liked best. Maybe a bit small if you're considering the Santa Fe, so what about the Sorrento? I partly justified it by wanted something comfortable that I could 'step into', as the last car (BMW 320 M-Sport) played hell with my back.

The only down-side for me is the fuel economy, but I might have a heavy right foot, and I chose the bigger diesel engine as it's often heavily laden (no towbar though!). Aside from that, it's very comfortable indeed, has seen some off-road miles and coped well within its expected limits, and (for the price) had all the kit I wanted. Equivalent brands were between £5k-8k more for similar spec, although I lease mine in place of a company car. I would recommend it highly.

For what its worth, I had a Kia Sportage at the time (and a sense of humour)

meanredspider

bdu98252 wrote:

You might be reading a bit too much into people motives and mindset there.

I'm sure I'm not

pblakeney

meanredspider wrote:

People do judge though...

People also watch Celebrity Big Brother, that doesn't make it right.
Also, thank you for proving my point. You cannot judge a driver by their car.
You were the same driver in 3 cars and the judgements varied wildly based purely on the type of car.
Only fools would judge a driver based only on the type of car. Or is that judgemental?

meanredspider

PBlakeney wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

People do judge though...

People also watch Celebrity Big Brother, that doesn't make it right.
Also, thank you for proving my point. You cannot judge a driver by their car.
You were the same driver in 3 cars and the judgements varied wildly based purely on the type of car.
Only fools would judge a driver based only on the type of car. Or is that judgemental?

I didn't say it's right - just said people do it and it's worth being aware that they do it.

There will be a degree of correlation between people and their cars but quite what it is, I don't know.

There was a site by (I believe) YouGov that correlated brands. There were some significant correlations in their data for some car brands. But, as ever, stats are stats.

pblakeney

I wouldn't research too deeply as I wasn't entirely serious. 8)

meanredspider

PBlakeney wrote:

I wouldn't research too deeply as I wasn't entirely serious. 8)

I know It's an interesting lesson in psychology. I always find it interesting how many people up here have private plates

pblakeney

meanredspider wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I wouldn't research too deeply as I wasn't entirely serious. 8)

I know It's an interesting lesson in psychology. I always find it interesting how many people up here have private plates

To differentiate between Landies?

meanredspider

PBlakeney wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I wouldn't research too deeply as I wasn't entirely serious. 8)

I know It's an interesting lesson in psychology. I always find it interesting how many people up here have private plates

To differentiate between Discos and Range Rovers?

Nearly right - FTFY

glenwatt

I bought a Mitsubishi ASX 4wd last year.

Find it great all round car and often not even considered, small enough to be nippy, yet large enough to handle the 4 of us and the dog.

4wd is there if and when needed. (not so far)

A real plus is that on a run into work through the dreaded Blackwall Tunnel, I'm still managing to get mid 40s MPG.

StillGoing

SoloSuperia wrote:

I have a Suzuki Grand Vitara at the moment, I fancy a change don't know what to go for.
Nissan X trail, Freelander, the Honda thing.
Any positive recommendations or don't touch with a barge pole comments.
I live in a rural area so a 4x4 is not essential but very handy at times.
I wait with bated breath for your comments.

Go take a look at a few VW Touaregs. I drive a V6 Tdi R Line that is as luxurious inside as most executive saloons, quick as any hot hatch, solidly built to withstand the bumps of off road driving and capable off road too only being bettered by the Disco and Range Rover. Even the older versions are worth a look. Fuel consumption is no worse than anything else in the 4x4 market.

If the Touareg is too big, I seriously recommend the Toyota Rav 4. The 2.0 engine in it works perfectly and it has plenty of room inside. One car model I would ignore are the Lexus RX hybrids. Useless off road, plastic everywhere inside and if you leave it standing for two weeks or more, the auxiliary battery will be flat locking you out of the car.

StillGoing

Yellow Peril wrote:

usual "excuses" include...

1. they need the space :roll:

2. they feel safe :roll: :roll:

3. they can see better out of them :roll: :roll: :roll:

Seldom do people just admit that it is a fashion/vanity/status thing

ooh the jealousy; I can feel it from here. :roll:

StillGoing

meanredspider wrote:

If you need to tow 2.5 tonnes (which is a lot - is that two horses?) then you need something heavy to tow it. My E-Class will tow 2.1 tonnes. I don't think people are anti 4x4s when they're required it's just so many of them really aren't required and are either fashion accessories or used as tanks (for "safety"). Because they are heavy, they are thirsty and more of a danger to other road users.

ETA - out of curiosity, I looked up horse trailers

Larger cars can tow a horse trailer safely; there is a recommended towing weight normally in the hand book. This is a recommendation and it is not illegal to exceed this. In most cases the weights can be kept within the recommendations, our horse trailers weigh approximately 880 kg. With one horse approx 1300 kg and with two horses approx 1700 kg. Our trailers have a maximum permitted weight of 2300 kg.

Most larger estates will tow 1700kg no problem.

What total rubbish. The only dangerous part of a car is the idiot behind the wheel. Makes no difference what make or model it is if the driver is a danger. It is an urban myth that 4x4 drivers are the worst on the road just the same as it was supposed to be white van man not so long ago and that Volvo drivers have more accidents with motorcyclists. Wasn't the old dear that killed one of the honeymoon couple out cycling in Scotland driving a Nissan Micra or something?

It matters not whether a 4x4 owner needs it to go off road regularly. Some will buy them for the added impact resistance, road presence, seat height making it easier to get in and out for those with dodgy hips/knees etc, increased load space (D+W+H) and the fact it's robust enough to not get wrecked by chucking whatever rubbish in it, increased road clearance for on and off road, because they're cars that don't mind being caked in shit all year round and for that odd occasion when the weather is crap enough to necessitate 4 wheel drive. Nobody needs Di2, but I wouldn't think ill of them for having it.