Back pain advice - close to tears

Shtukka

Guys, I'm looking for any ideas about how I might improve the lower back pain I experience. A shift to a new bike mid year (planet X RT57 from Ribble 7046) hasn't helped. I recall this as a very mild issue on my earlier bikes but I've tinkered fairly extensively with my setup but can't stay comfortable.

Pretty much every ride for the last year (probably longer) over an hour result in this pain. It's somewhat related to intensity: an hour on the rollers is fine without a twinge, but it was the limiting pain after 50 minutes last weekend. I'm now at the point where this pain is becoming the limiting factor in how hard I can press and it's just blinking miserable.

The pain is on the lower right side of my back muscles, probably the multifidus if the diagrams I've looked up are about right.

I've tried
- raising the handlebars, shorter+higher stem, adding 4 spacers and rotating the bars up a lot (sacrificing a lot of aero)
- raising/lowering saddle
- tipping saddle back/forward, moving it fore/aft
- cleat position back/forward.

The above was turning into a very non-aero ride so I switched last week to regulation stem, no spacers, slight forward tip to the seat in a desire to reduce the hip angle. It's proper roadie now, and seems to have made no difference whatsoever. (Hard to say though... it's possibly worse)

Am out of ideas, pretty much in tears at the frustration of it all and on the verge of chucking it in. . I'm in decent general shape, 6ft and 14stone.

Any tips before I throw my carbon fibre out the window?

iron-clover

If you haven't already- go and see a sports injury specialist/ physio, it might not be cheap as such but it's the better choice than packing it in altogether, and see what they advise. It may be a case of finding excersizes/ stretches that help with those muscles or a bike fit or even something else.

In the short term is it possible to either just ride the Ribble or replicate the same position on your new bike to see if the problem dissapears again?

letap73

iron-clover wrote:

If you haven't already- go and see a sports injury specialist/ physio, it might not be cheap as such but it's the better choice than packing it in altogether, and see what they advise. It may be a case of finding excersizes/ stretches that help with those muscles or a bike fit or even something else.

In the short term is it possible to either just ride the Ribble or replicate the same position on your new bike to see if the problem dissapears again?

+1

Additionally, it might be worth going to a Pilates/Yoga class if recommended by a physio. The first port of call should be the physio.

vinnymarsden

I would hazard a guess there is some disc related issues going on there…you don't say how old you are.
I was 44 when my lower 2 discs. I think they are called L4 and L5 or other way round 1 and 2… I was regularly active, mountain biking..lots of golf/running…and on holiday felt a sharp pain which got worse..nothing made it feel better, until it just failed, on an EPIC scale..9 weeks off work..and both discs removed as they were beyond help. The recovery was SLOW…put on and lost 2 stone, but after all that I ran again quite well too, and now cycle with no pain other than that expected of a 54 yr old back…Go see a chiro, its worth the money, because if you ignore it, it WILL get worse, of that you can be certain. As the song goes by the blues legend Buddy Guy…I am Living Proof!!

jimwalsh

with all due respect vinny. there is no way of telling from what the op has posted that it is disc related.

I am an osteopath who cycles and I deal with a lot of bad backs.

I would follow the advice given above go and see a physio/osteopath that deals will cyclists/sports injuries

plodder73

I am a long time lower back sufferer, bought this, helped no end. Read the reviews, for £25 got to be worth a go


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bodi-Tek-BT-BMA ... +stretcher

Shtukka

Thanks guys. I'm 35.

Kudos to Plodder for the most promising video *of all time* :-) That stretcher might be worth a try too.

Funny that VinneyMarsden mentioned discs: I did have a discectomy 10 years ago but haven't had any recurrence, and it was round on the left side.

Seeing a physio/osteo might be the right answer, hopefully my private healthcare might stretch to that. I've also seen that a Retul fitting might be a good answer - and as ironclover said that might put me back in a ribble-like position (and I might try the old bike anyway).

Much appreciated. At least this has lifted my spirits enough to want to try and do something than jack it in.

sloppyschleckonds

Shtukka wrote:

Guys, I'm looking for any ideas about how I might improve the lower back pain I experience. A shift to a new bike mid year (planet X RT57 from Ribble 7046) hasn't helped.

- raising the handlebars, shorter+higher stem, adding 4 spacers and rotating the bars up a lot (sacrificing a lot of aero)

The above was turning into a very non-aero ride so I switched last week to regulation stem, no spacers, slight forward tip to the seat in a desire to reduce the hip angle. It's proper roadie now, and seems to have made no difference whatsoever. (Hard to say though... it's possibly worse)

Am out of ideas, pretty much in tears at the frustration of it all and on the verge of chucking it in. . I'm in decent general shape, 6ft and 14stone.

Any tips before I throw my carbon fibre out the window?

There are some clues in here.

mfin

What on earth is a regulation stem? You mean the stem that came with it? It might be that you need a longer one for instance. It sounds like there's an assumption you've were hoping you would find the right bike fit at some point, but probably you haven't. If you're taking an experimental approach that isn't working then why not go for a decent bike fitting with someone who knows what they are doing?

kajjal

I would go to a medical professional / GP. It may be nothing to do with your bike setup and they can give you the treatment you need and any scans etc.

DeVlaeminck

Bike set up can cause problems but I tend to agree with the general advice here that there seems to be more going on here than poor position on the bike. I'd do as most others would and go and see someone - get a recommendation - if you are in a cycling or other sports club then no doubt a number of them will know a favourite physio, osteo, sports therapist etc

Shtukka

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Shtukka wrote:

Guys, I'm looking for any ideas about how I might improve the lower back pain I experience. A shift to a new bike mid year (planet X RT57 from Ribble 7046) hasn't helped.

- raising the handlebars, shorter+higher stem, adding 4 spacers and rotating the bars up a lot (sacrificing a lot of aero)

The above was turning into a very non-aero ride so I switched last week to regulation stem, no spacers, slight forward tip to the seat in a desire to reduce the hip angle. It's proper roadie now, and seems to have made no difference whatsoever. (Hard to say though... it's possibly worse)

Am out of ideas, pretty much in tears at the frustration of it all and on the verge of chucking it in. . I'm in decent general shape, 6ft and 14stone.

Any tips before I throw my carbon fibre out the window?

There are some clues in here.

Hi SloppySchleckonds - could you expand on those clues as I can't see what you mean?

mfin, what I mean by "regulation stem" is the one that came with the bike. It's moderately long and flat, certainly compared to a short rising stem I tried off my ribble.

bahzob

You don't mention that you have actually spoken with anyone with bike fitting experience.

A good bike fit is the best investment you can make, far better than spending money bike/components.

Not saying this will fix your problems but if you know that you are set-up in the correct position and still suffering then it's not about the bike.

You will also have a clear point of reference for how to set up your bike to test the efficacy or otherwise of any treatments you try out.

zak3737

I suffered a prolapsed disc last year, no idea how I did it, but boy it was painful and debilitating.

I went to a local 'Physio', who diagnosed it, and treated it for about 8 weeks, with very limited results, and it lingered for most of the summer.
Eventually, someone gave me the name of a local Ayurverdic Masseur (sp ?) - a local Thai woman, who not only immediately diagnosed the possible cause of the disc issue, (mis-aligned Hip), she put me through hell on the table with immediate improvements, and I continue to go see her now.

Could be something similar, maybe not, but one things for sure, many of your Standard Physio's arent as good or thorough ........
Good luck, hope you find the cause.

ncr

Shtukka wrote:

Guys, I'm looking for any ideas about how I might improve the lower back pain I experience. A shift to a new bike mid year (planet X RT57 from Ribble 7046) hasn't helped. I recall this as a very mild issue on my earlier bikes but I've tinkered fairly extensively with my setup but can't stay comfortable.

Pretty much every ride for the last year (probably longer) over an hour result in this pain. It's somewhat related to intensity: an hour on the rollers is fine without a twinge, but it was the limiting pain after 50 minutes last weekend. I'm now at the point where this pain is becoming the limiting factor in how hard I can press and it's just blinking miserable.

The pain is on the lower right side of my back muscles, probably the multifidus if the diagrams I've looked up are about right.

I've tried
- raising the handlebars, shorter+higher stem, adding 4 spacers and rotating the bars up a lot (sacrificing a lot of aero)
- raising/lowering saddle
- tipping saddle back/forward, moving it fore/aft
- cleat position back/forward.

The above was turning into a very non-aero ride so I switched last week to regulation stem, no spacers, slight forward tip to the seat in a desire to reduce the hip angle. It's proper roadie now, and seems to have made no difference whatsoever. (Hard to say though... it's possibly worse)

Am out of ideas, pretty much in tears at the frustration of it all and on the verge of chucking it in. . I'm in decent general shape, 6ft and 14stone.

Any tips before I throw my carbon fibre out the window?

Has this type of pain always been there on rides over an hour or more ?

Martincan

Sorry to hear about your back issue, Shtukka!

I suffered with back pains a few years ago - it wasn't clear, but it seemed as though the natural road riding position was causing the discomfort. I had it looked at and had approx. 2/3 physio sessions. The physio also gave my core exercises to do at home - stronger core, stronger back.

Anywho, this wasn't really getting rid of the pain so the physio suggested acupuncture (man, it feels weird), so I had around 3/4 acupuncture sessions, and since then *touches wood* the pain hasn't returned, though I ride no where near as much as I did, so I'm hoping that it is actually gone rather than being down to my lack of cycling.

As a lot of the above mention, seeing a Physio is the way forward.

All the best!

Shtukka

ncr asked if this pain has always been there on rides over an hour or more.

- On this bike (Planet X) the answer is "hell yeah".
- Previous Ribble sportive bike I recall feeling twinges in the same area, but not on the same scale.

I've got two plans of attack now: 1) try a few rides on the Ribble and see if it's still there (which should indicate how much is me versus the bike/setup itself) and 2) See a guy in Hertford who is a physio/osteo who does Retul fitting too.

bikes`n`guns

Physio
Bike fit
Stretching
Core strength exercises.

fat_cat

^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^

Have had back problems myself. A few trips to an Oesteopath sorted me out, and he gave me a set of stretching and strengthening exercises to do which seems to have done the trick.

If the cause of your back issue is cycling and not something else you need a professional bike fit otherwise you'll be back to square one in a month or so.

ai_1

I'm confused why people keep fixating on bike setup as soon as they have any pain, especially when it's back pain.
A visit to a physio is the obvious answer. That's what they're for and in the grand scheme of things they're pretty damn good value. If I'm willing to pay anything from a few hundred to several thousand on a bike it seems wise to spend another €50, €100, €150 for a visit or 3 to a physio to make sure I can enjoy using it. Surely the upgrade we all enjoy most is a properly functioning body!

I had lower back pain in the past, sometimes severe, when putting in hard efforts and on longer rides. In my case the problem seemed to stem from tight hamstrings and glutes which were putting strain on my back. Improving hamstring and glute flexibility and doing a small amount of core work solved the problem and I haven't had this issue in well over a year. A more upright position on the bike would have helped alleviate the problem but it never would have addressed the underlying problem. Don't just tackle the symptoms and consider that a long term solution. It almost never is.

bahzob

Ai_1 wrote:

I'm confused why people keep fixating on bike setup as soon as they have any pain, especially when it's back pain.
A visit to a physio is the obvious answer. That's what they're for and in the grand scheme of things they're pretty damn good value. If I'm willing to pay anything from a few hundred to several thousand on a bike it seems wise to spend another €50, €100, €150 for a visit or 3 to a physio to make sure I can enjoy using it. Surely the upgrade we all enjoy most is a properly functioning body!

I had lower back pain in the past, sometimes severe, when putting in hard efforts and on longer rides. In my case the problem seemed to stem from tight hamstrings and glutes which were putting strain on my back. Improving hamstring and glute flexibility and doing a small amount of core work solved the problem and I haven't had this issue in well over a year. A more upright position on the bike would have helped alleviate the problem but it never would have addressed the underlying problem. Don't just tackle the symptoms and consider that a long term solution. It almost never is.

Because if your bike setup is wrong it will give you trouble even if you have no back issues that a physio will be able to fix.

In ideal world best would be to contact someone who is experienced both in bike fitting and a qualified physio. The two fitters I have used are both were*. This also saves money as you get 2 consultations for the price of 1.

Just from a point of practicality you are more like to find someone like this by searching for bike fitters who are physios than searching for physios who happen to know anything about bikes.

* I used one 5 or years ago when first getting into cycling seriously. Second was last year for help with TT.

bikes`n`guns

I`d also be very wary of just raising bar height to try and find a more upright position.

I have lower back problems and am now finding I am lower at the front end to get better comfort.

I took out my mates hybrid and after 2 mins was in agony. I now cannot ride an upright style bike.

Slam it , as they say.

diy

Assuming you get a proper check from someone who can advise you with expertise having looked at you, and assuming your bike set-up is not daft, I'd start with proper stretches 2-3 times a week 15-30 mins. Some conditioning exercises (whole body) and then look at small tweaks to set up.

I've got in to the habbit of doing this (which I filmed with a friend):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WElIDKxmyQo
2-3 times a week - and even though I have been doing some serios digging in the garden (building a man cave) on top of a fairly hefty gym and cycle routine, I haven't had any back trouble at all.

Don't just stretch the lower back, it can be hamstrings, quads lats, shoulders etc causing the problem. Adjusting for a problem via adaping your riding position IMO is the wrong thing to do as all that will happen is you'll kick the problem down the line.

andy_wrx

Do you have problems outside cycling ?
- ie standing for a long time, sitting for a long time, in a car or on an aircraft, etc

If you have no problems except when riding your bike, could well be it's totally bikefit.

If you are in backpain most of the time and it's just worst when you're on a bike, then likely you have back problems and your bike is just exacerbating them.

See a bikefitter for the first, see an osteo/physio/chiro for the second : ideal is someone who understands both, not just a bikefitter who knows how to run the Retul program by-the-numbers nor a physio specialising in geriatric care who knows nothing about cycling.

You won't get the answer here, from whole lot of people unqualified but all having an opinion despite never having met you, seen you, examined you...

bobinski

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I`d also be very wary of just raising bar height to try and find a more upright position.

I have lower back problems and am now finding I am lower at the front end to get better comfort.

I took out my mates hybrid and after 2 mins was in agony. I now cannot ride an upright style bike.

Slam it , as they say.

I went through 2 years of agony after 1 and then a 2nd prolapsed disc in my early 30's. I am now 52 and largely pain free. With cycling I ride a racier slammed style position because it stretches my lower back and takes the weight off my sit bones meaning a more not less comfortable ride. If I get on my my upright mountain bike then it doesn't take too long before I feel lower back discomfort or worse, pain moving down my left leg,suggesting one of the discs is literally touching the sciatic nerve. I think sitting more upright means a more compressed spine or lower back. So,for me an upright posture is the worse thing I can do.

chrisw12

For three years I rode infrequently, say twice a week and I'd have a bit of back pain, now I'm back into it and ride every day I never get back pain. So my question is, you people who complain of back pain, how often are you actually riding?

ai_1

bobinski wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I`d also be very wary of just raising bar height to try and find a more upright position.

I have lower back problems and am now finding I am lower at the front end to get better comfort.

I took out my mates hybrid and after 2 mins was in agony. I now cannot ride an upright style bike.

Slam it , as they say.

I went through 2 years of agony after 1 and then a 2nd prolapsed disc in my early 30's. I am now 52 and largely pain free. With cycling I ride a racier slammed style position because it stretches my lower back and takes the weight off my sit bones meaning a more not less comfortable ride. If I get on my my upright mountain bike then it doesn't take too long before I feel lower back discomfort or worse, pain moving down my left leg,suggesting one of the discs is literally touching the sciatic nerve. I think sitting more upright means a more compressed spine or lower back. So,for me an upright posture is the worse thing I can do.

Position on the saddle is also likely to make a big difference.
If you look at two people with reasonably aggressive positions but different pelvis rotations their backs are in very different postures. If you rotate your pelvis forward you have a much straighter, flatter back but more acute hip angle. With a less rotated pelvis, you get a very arched back. My back and neck prefer a more rotated pelvis but it takes getting used to and can make choice of saddle more critical. Both styles seem to be used at all levels as opposed to there being a right and wrong.

warrior4life

My two pence worth.

I got back issues 3 yrs ago at 35, off the bike, off work. All the usual, 10/10 on pain scale.
Three different physios was wasted money, the NHS where great, I got an MRI and my bottom disc is degreasing.
Surgery is an option and I was tempted to get it done as it effected my full life.

I decided one proper go at rehabbing myself, I stretch every morning and night and the difference is incredible.

The only way to see what's going in there is to get an MRI. Get one if you can. Good luck with everything.

warrior4life

I don't believe a bike fit can really help with chronic back pain.

ai_1

warrior4life wrote:

I don't believe a bike fit can really help with chronic back pain.

Agreed. Not everything is about the bike.

warrior4life wrote:

...I got back issues 3 yrs ago at 35, off the bike, off work. All the usual, 10/10 on pain scale.
Three different physios was wasted money, the NHS where great, I got an MRI and my bottom disc is degreasing...

Do physios in the UK never refer people for scans? Everyone but me seems to have had bad experience with physios. I've attended 1 who was pretty useless but the others have all been excellent. Most with the exception of the bad one were at the same practice, so maybe they're just very picky and all their physios are good!

DeVlaeminck

A private physio probably doesn't have access to stuff like MRI scans - the machines aren't cheap you'd be talking a few hundred quid upwards for a scan - what they could do is say you really need to get a GP referral in the NHS for a scan.