Smacking children!

bianchimoon

The Pope said: "One time, I heard a father in a meeting with married couples say 'I sometimes have to smack my children a bit, but never in the face so as to not humiliate them.'

"How beautiful," he added. "He knows the sense of dignity. He has to punish them but does it justly and moves on."

Thing is I have never smacked my children, never would, been very angry with them, to the point had to walk away in case I did, but didn't. Do you get what he means? I don't

meanredspider

With all the kids that result from that church's teaching, you got to do something with them (whilst the priests aren't abusing them)

mamba80

...this pope also said "if someone insults my mother, they d get a punch" in response to the Charlie H attacks.

what a xxxx, its never right to hit a child, why hide behind the term "smack" its not, it is hitting and if you did it to an adult, you d be committing a criminal offense but the law says its ok to hit a vulnerable person who cant defend themselves...... no wonder there are so many abused children in this country.

bianchimoon

mamba80 wrote:

...this pope also said "if someone insults my mother, they d get a punch" in response to the Charlie H attacks.

what a xxxx, its never right to hit a child, why hide behind the term "smack" its not, it is hitting and if you did it to an adult, you d be committing a criminal offense but the law says its ok to hit a vulnerable person who cant defend themselves...... no wonder there are so many abused children in this country.

you're right, a bit of playing with words 'softens the blow!' lets be honest he means "it's ok to 'assault' your own child"!

lancew

I was smacked on the bottom as a child. No harder than you would firmly pat a large dog on its side when its being a good dog (not hard).

I was threatened with "the wooden spoon" but that never actually happened. I don't feel any anger to the principle. I think some children need a smack on the hind quarters to keep them in line.

I don't want to tell others how to treat their kids, but if you have a disruptive little shit keep it away from me.

mamba80

Lancew wrote:

I was smacked on the bottom as a child. No harder than you would firmly pat a large dog on its side when its being a good dog (not hard).

I was threatened with "the wooden spoon" but that never actually happened. I don't feel any anger to the principle. I think some children need a smack on the hind quarters to keep them in line.

I don't want to tell others how to treat their kids, but if you have a disruptive little shoot keep it away from me.

My mum is suffering from very mild dementia, should I smack her to keep her in line?
and if not, why not?

DeVlaeminck

There is a difference between a smack that does not actually hurt and an assault - I'm not saying either is right but keep it in proportion. I think too much is made of light smacking when there are plenty of other punishments which I would consider far more cruel, unfair, likely to affect a child emotionally which do not involve physical contact. I don't actually think there is a need to smack kids but if a smack is as LanceW describes it I don't see it as a big issue either.

meanredspider

I've never needed to resort to violence with my 3 kids nor have I even shouted at them from what I can remember. We were always complimented on their behaviour when they were smaller and they've never been in trouble at school. They seem well-adjusted and they're certainly successful. My approach has always to be calm but firm. Obviously I've never had anybody else's kids but it never seemed that difficult to me.

pblakeney

I know parents who have never smacked.
I know parents who smack lightly at the outset of disruption.
I am not going to judge one way or the other.

The clearest case of altered behaviour that I have seen is in a nephew.
My sister would never smack him regardless of how bad he behaved or how much she threatened.
One day he acted up so much (as in he was physically abusing others) and put the straw on that broke the camel's back, she snapped, and spanked him. Not hard, just enough to show she meant it.
After that, the threats held more sway. He has grown up to be a well adjusted adult and she never had to do it again.

Just an anecdote.

Tim_jones

I have four kids all of whom have been proportionately disciplined when required! They may get a clip now and then (can't remember the last time) but they respect adults and understand societal rules. Because they have relatively sensible and balanced parents that are passing their ethics to them.

Surely that is more important than allowing them to grow up without standards?

finchy

Tim_jones wrote:

Surely that is more important than allowing them to grow up without standards?

Letting them grow up without standards is not the only alternative to smacking.

Lookyhere

I don't smack my child, there are loads of ways to teach your kids respect and manners without hurting them.

Fwiw, Me and my sis were smacked as kids and all it taught me was if someone doesn't do as you ask, its ok to use violence to get what you want, as for anyone who says "it never did my kids any harm, they behave impeccably" get really, kids soon learn how to manipulate their parents, my sister was a master at this and quickly learnt how to hide her behaviour from our parents.
My sister works in education and her view is that many parents very quickly lose control and smacking becomes the norm and also, what to do if smacking doesn't get the results you want?
I just cannot see how hurting your children, garners "respect".

VTech

I have 3 kids, I have no problem with smacking them if it is needed. I have not actually had the need to smack my kids although I have threatened it and a couple of times I have cupped my hand, shouted at the two youngest and hit there bum. Of course I have not actually hurt them, the shock of pretending that this was the intention was enough.
I won't have them lie to me and I won't have them be cheeky to their mom.

Frank the tank

I loved and respected both my parents, as a youngster I recall my dad giving me one smack (can't remember now what I had done, but it must have been exceptional) He NEVER had to smite me again. Hard words backed up by the the possibility of the ultimate punishment helped keep both me and my bro on the straight and narrow.

I don't recall ever smacking any of my children but I have no issue with corporal punishment. It's not for me to judge others.

In this day and age there are far more options open to a lot of parents than a smack.

southdownswolf

Lancew wrote:

I was smacked on the bottom as a child. No harder than you would firmly pat a large dog on its side when its being a good dog (not hard).

I was threatened with "the wooden spoon" but that never actually happened. I don't feel any anger to the principle. I think some children need a smack on the hind quarters to keep them in line.

I don't want to tell others how to treat their kids, but if you have a disruptive little shoot keep it away from me.

This

Ben6899

southdownswolf wrote:

Lancew wrote:

I was smacked on the bottom as a child. No harder than you would firmly pat a large dog on its side when its being a good dog (not hard).

I was threatened with "the wooden spoon" but that never actually happened. I don't feel any anger to the principle. I think some children need a smack on the hind quarters to keep them in line.

I don't want to tell others how to treat their kids, but if you have a disruptive little shoot keep it away from me.

This

Twice this. Any takers for thrice?

meanredspider

PBlakeney wrote:

The clearest case of altered behaviour that I have seen is in a nephew.
My sister would never smack him regardless of how bad he behaved or how much she threatened.
One day he acted up so much (as in he was physically abusing others) and put the straw on that broke the camel's back, she snapped, and spanked him. Not hard, just enough to show she meant it.
After that, the threats held more sway. He has grown up to be a well adjusted adult and she never had to do it again.

Just an anecdote.

Well, I don't think that tells you anything about smacking. What it does tell you is that you shouldn't threaten punishments you aren't prepared to follow through on. In fact, in general, you should always follow through on what you say you're going to do, good or bad. That builds trust.

There are plenty of non-violent sanctions for kids that work every bit as well if you follow through. Smacking, in some ways, is just lazy. There's also a clear message that you can get other people to do what you want them to by hitting them (especially if they're too weak to hit you back). By the time you hit your kids, you've already lost.

finchy

My Dad smacked me, my Mum didn't. All it taught me was not to get caught.

Frank the tank

I agree with meanredspider to a degree, if you resort to smacking a child in some respects you have failed.

Depends why you smack them, A child who is about to place their hand on a hot surface might get a smack on the hand to make them withdraw it. That is different from getting a smack for doing something which is wrong.

DeVlaeminck

Just out of interest what alternative punishments would people advocate ?

pblakeney

meanredspider wrote:

Well, I don't think that tells you anything about smacking. What it does tell you is that you shouldn't threaten punishments you aren't prepared to follow through on. In fact, in general, you should always follow through on what you say you're going to do, good or bad. That builds trust.

There are plenty of non-violent sanctions for kids that work every bit as well if you follow through. Smacking, in some ways, is just lazy. There's also a clear message that you can get other people to do what you want them to by hitting them (especially if they're too weak to hit you back). By the time you hit your kids, you've already lost.

I agree about carrying out threats. It doesn't take long to figure out if they are meaningless.
What do you do when all alternative punishments have failed?

It musty be said that it was successful in the anecdote. One gentle smacking and only a threat was required thereafter.
His younger sister also learned that the threat could be carried out from the experience, so 2 for the price of one.

Smacking as a first resort is clearly wrong.

Wynne G Oldman

Both me and the Missus were smacked as children, and when we were new parents and our children were very young, we smacked them a few times. Being honest, I think it was more out of us losing our temper, than it being a rational learning tool to teach kids right from wrong. It also just made me feel like a bully. We stopped doing it a long time ago. One of my former Headmistresses once told my Mother that the most effective form of punishment was the threat (to be followed up if necessary) of the removal of a child's privileges i.e. "stop doing that, or this happens.". I have found that this is the most effective way to teach our kids what's right and wrong, along with an explanation of why they are being punished, and letting them know the consequences of doing wrong when they're older.

I'd just like to add that our kids are now 23 and 18, and are both polite, decent, law abiding members of society.

bdu98252

Smacking is not really a deterrent to bad behaviour as most humans do not respond to physical violence favourably. Children are social beings and the removal of attention is a far more effective strategy in my experience which is not much as the oldest is only 3. My dad was hit by his father and in reality all this did was lead to resentment between parties until my dad reached an age where he called his fathers bluff and goaded him to hit him. At that point both the threat and respect between the two parties had been lost. He did not want that for his children and therefore did not use physical punishments.

My mum on the other hand was a fan of the wooden spoon however we were being right little shits.

Pituophis

My mum and dad both smacked me. My dad a lot less frequently but a lot harder.
I was never worried about a smack off my mum because I knew she didn't have the heart for it, but I dreaded a smack off my dad because I knew I really deserved what was coming.
Funny thing is I love my mum and dad exactly the same, and we have a great relationship.
I never smacked my own son as he was a really good kid, and as it happens we have a brilliant relationship too. But I think that we would have done even if I had smacked him because I would have still put all the effort into being a good dad any way. Just like my dad.

stu-bim

I am not a believer of hitting/smacking as punishment. I would not go far as to call it violence but to me it is not correct and gives the wrong message.

But a child throwing a tantrum getting a smack on the bottom is different but only in how the parent is feeling. Hitting in temper again is wrong. But using it as a deterrent to tantrums etc is different. One or two quick taps to gain attention is not the same as trying to hurt a child as punishment.

I have a ten year old and have probably had to do it twice. Neither time hard or in anger but to stop a tantrum as a shock. Still would prefer if I hadn't but sometimes a measured approach is correct.

veronese68

I think I smacked my son once, he was quite young and ran into the road in spite of my yelling at him to stop. I shouted at him and gave him a smack. Not particularly rational but my thinking wasn't particularly rational at that point. Otherwise I never felt the need to smack the kids. Just telling them off and if necessary taking something away or not allowing something would do the job. The naughty step works, stop them doing what they want to for a short time. Being consistent is the most important thing with kids. If you say no to something you cannot change your mind later. If you do they will sense weakness and expect you to change your mind the next time you say no.
I do beat my son from time to time nowadays, but he is a fair bit bigger than me now so I have to be more careful and plan my escape.

slowbike

I was smacked as a child - both by a teacher and by my father ... I don't remember the specifics other than I was doing something wrong.

The punishment by the teacher was more about embarrassment in front of the class rather than the physical effect - it still hurt though.

"It taught me not to get caught" - that goes for any punishment ...physical or otherwise.

IMHO the most important message is that whatever punishment you threaten you must be prepared to carry it through - the issue becomes when even that punishment doesn't abate the behaviour that caused it.

We ran a points system for our niece & nephew when they came to stay with us - really simple - just a white board with a list of jobs & reward points they could earn and a "telling off -1 points" "naughty step -5 points". Then there was a list of treats they could buy with their points - from little things like "going to the park 10 points" to "swimming 30 points" and "day out at monkey world 60 points". On top of that we tallied up their points on the board and had little paper notes in a plastic wallet (thanks Wiggle!) with the points on so they could count them.
I know they were on holiday and had our full attention and it was something new - so better behaviour was expected - but for the whole extended weekend we only had to tell them off once each.
Subsequently we were told that we shouldn't take points away - only reward the good behaviour - stuff that - seeing them upset (with themselves) at losing a point and working out ways they could earn it back was great - we didn't have to feel like the bad guys telling them off the whole time (they're generally mischievous) and they seemed to get a lot out of it.
My sister is now using a similar solution for her two and (for now at least) it's working a treat.

meanredspider

PBlakeney wrote:

What do you do when all alternative punishments have failed?

They never did. We were calm, clear and consistent from when the kids were young. They learned where the boundaries were. You have to put the thought and effort in like most things in life, I suppose. Honestly, I'm probably not the best person to ask - I just never had any issues with my kids who are now 15, 17 & 19.

veronese68

Have to agree with MRS's post above.
When my son was about 3 we were on holiday visiting a zoo and kept bumping in to another couple with a boy of similar age. They asked us how we managed to keep him so well behaved. The answer seemed obvious to us, but it was very hard to explain to them so we didn't bother. The parents weren't even nice to each other, constantly bickering and snapping at each other. They were also constantly on at the boy and kept making hollow threats. So he just ignored the constant background noise because it meant nothing to him.
There is no need to clamp down on every bit of bad behaviour. Help and guide them from an early age and teach them to think for themselves. Pick your battles, if you need to tell them off make sure it is for something important. Not just nagging for the sake of it.
Again, consistency is the key thing. that cannot be overstated.

bompington

Slowbike wrote:

We ran a points system for our niece & nephew when they came to stay with us - really simple - just a white board with a list of jobs & reward points they could earn and a "telling off -1 points" "naughty step -5 points". Then there was a list of treats they could buy with their points - from little things like "going to the park 10 points" to "swimming 30 points" and "day out at monkey world 60 points". On top of that we tallied up their points on the board and had little paper notes in a plastic wallet (thanks Wiggle!) with the points on so they could count them.

Did this work when they were aged two to three?

mamba80

bompington wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

We ran a points system for our niece & nephew when they came to stay with us - really simple - just a white board with a list of jobs & reward points they could earn and a "telling off -1 points" "naughty step -5 points". Then there was a list of treats they could buy with their points - from little things like "going to the park 10 points" to "swimming 30 points" and "day out at monkey world 60 points". On top of that we tallied up their points on the board and had little paper notes in a plastic wallet (thanks Wiggle!) with the points on so they could count them.

Did this work when they were aged two to three?

When my daughter was about 4, we were going to Paignton Zoo, can't remember what exactly but she wouldn't do as she was told, threatened her with going home (we had just paid to get in) she didn't listen, so we took her home, she never ever tried it on again.

With younger children distraction works very well but hitting a 1, 2 or 3 yo cannot be right, surely no one on here would advocate that?