Training with power but how do I use it in practice

fixiebob

Hi all

I have recently bought a Wattbike and am enjoying training with power using trainer road software.
My FTP is around 190, I have decided I want to use power in my training on the road and for TT's so I am going to invest in stages power meter but I am not sure how to use it.
If I know I can hold 200w for a 10 mile TT for example do I try and keep watts at 200 for entire ride, i.e if its headwind out do I hold that wattage with a slower speed and do same on way back but obviously faster or do I push harder on way out?????

Rob

imposter2.0

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Racing ... powermeter

If you are buying a stages and already own a turbo, then the wattbike is more or less redundant.

jgsi

Book mentioned here and if you want anymore endorsement for training with power and how to get it right because it is one real complicated subject.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/arti ... wer-metric

In about a years time you might have enough data recorded to start making decisions. ;-)
oh yes you will need some data logging/analysis software... Strava simply will not do.

markhewitt1978

fixiebob wrote:

If I know I can hold 200w for a 10 mile TT for example do I try and keep watts at 200 for entire ride, i.e if its headwind out do I hold that wattage with a slower speed and do same on way back but obviously faster or do I push harder on way out?????

Sorry if this sounds like a daft question but I thought that was the entire idea of power, that it's a number completely independent of gradient, hills, whatever, so you would ride to your power target and nothing else matters?

jgsi

markhewitt1978 wrote:

fixiebob wrote:

If I know I can hold 200w for a 10 mile TT for example do I try and keep watts at 200 for entire ride, i.e if its headwind out do I hold that wattage with a slower speed and do same on way back but obviously faster or do I push harder on way out?????

Sorry if this sounds like a daft question but I thought that was the entire idea of power, that it's a number completely independent of gradient, hills, whatever, so you would ride to your power target and nothing else matters?

Train with power.. dont actually ride to it outside.. too much going on and my headunit isnt that clear or my eyesight is rubbish one of the other.
Its for analysing say , a for instance, here... how many times you put an attack in during a race.. which one was successful, if any.. so what was the power you needed to do that? What happened afterwards, did you burn all the matches, or did you burn yourself out and was fit only for the bunch? etc etc etc.

Tom Dean

markhewitt1978 wrote:

fixiebob wrote:

If I know I can hold 200w for a 10 mile TT for example do I try and keep watts at 200 for entire ride, i.e if its headwind out do I hold that wattage with a slower speed and do same on way back but obviously faster or do I push harder on way out?????

Sorry if this sounds like a daft question but I thought that was the entire idea of power, that it's a number completely independent of gradient, hills, whatever, so you would ride to your power target and nothing else matters?

It depends if you're talking training or racing. The fastest way in a TT would be to use more power in the slower sections e.g. headwinds.

OP buy the book linked by imposter.

wavefront

I train using my PM for all my structured training rides, turbo, or outside. Also use it for TT's and the beginning of a hill climbs (to set pace), but for road racing pretty much don't bother - too many other things going on!!

Some people ride to constant watts, others hit hills/headwinds harder, (which as others have said, has been shown to be beneficial). On my 10mile TT's I had good pacing results when dividing them into four quadrants, go slightly easy on first quarter, hit the second around target power. Third, depending on how I'm feeling may add a little more, or stay at target, then pretty much go all out on last and hold on - it does depends on the course also.

I now have over a year of PM data which is a very useful reference, so get used to poring over data for nights on end - Golden Cheetah would be my recommendation for data logging software.

Saying all this, my coach has suggested I occasionally turn off my Garmin on a few training rides to ensure I don't lose the ability to ride on feel - turns out to be a good sugestion!

olake92

I'll agree with Tom Dean and wavefront; get the training with power book(s) and good software to analyse your data with. I like Golden Cheetah too - it's free!

My big tips are: do regular 20 minute power tests to determine your FTP; time in the zone is important; decide what you want to do with power!

With regards to the second tip, that means I now no longer smash up hills and coast down descents; if you need to ride up a hill at 150w and it's comically slow, do it. Then continue the power over the top. Average and normalised power should be as close together as possible.

amaferanga

olake92 wrote:

Average and normalised power should be as close together as possible.

Says who?

jgsi

olake92 wrote:

I'll agree with Tom Dean and wavefront; get the training with power book(s) and good software to analyse your data with. I like Golden Cheetah too - it's free!

My big tips are: do regular 20 minute power tests to determine your FTP; time in the zone is important; decide what you want to do with power!

With regards to the second tip, that means I now no longer smash up hills and coast down descents; if you need to ride up a hill at 150w and it's comically slow, do it. Then continue the power over the top. Average and normalised power should be as close together as possible.

I think you need a quick refresher on the use of power re your last point:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/arti ... ing-stress

wavefront

JGSI wrote:

olake92 wrote:

I'll agree with Tom Dean and wavefront; get the training with power book(s) and good software to analyse your data with. I like Golden Cheetah too - it's free!

My big tips are: do regular 20 minute power tests to determine your FTP; time in the zone is important; decide what you want to do with power!

With regards to the second tip, that means I now no longer smash up hills and coast down descents; if you need to ride up a hill at 150w and it's comically slow, do it. Then continue the power over the top. Average and normalised power should be as close together as possible.

I think you need a quick refresher on the use of power re your last point:
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/arti ... ing-stress

I think you both may have taken what olake92 was trying to suggest a little wrongly. As a statement, 'AV and NP power should be as close together as possible', then yes, there are plenty of times that it won't be, or any reason it should be.

But I took it as if you want to (and this is another debate) spend time quality time in a particular zone, say L2, then blasting up hills almost at threshold, then coasting down the other side won't help - You NP might show you've succeeded in an L2 ride, but in reality you've done nothing of the sort. A big difference between the two shows a more 'spikey' ride in my mind.

85% of my structured winter miles have been on a flattish route where I keep the power pretty much constant. My VI is usually 1.03-1.06, with AV within a few watts of NP.

jgsi

Yes, sorry, you have a point, if you consciously ride to a certain Zone like 2.
This morning I have just spent 50 mins on the rollers just to spin.
Avepower 157
NP 158
Also happens in TTs for me, as I can pace so brilliantly but do so badly :-(

fixiebob

This guys, I have bought Joe Friels book very good so far.
When the weather improves I will have to get out on road and see what works for me, trial and error i suppose.
NP, VI, FTP I have a lot to learn lol.

olake92

But I took it as if you want to (and this is another debate) spend time quality time in a particular zone, say L2, then blasting up hills almost at threshold, then coasting down the other side won't help - You NP might show you've succeeded in an L2 ride, but in reality you've done nothing of the sort. A big difference between the two shows a more 'spikey' ride in my mind.

Yep, thanks for clarifying this; exactly what I meant. I did mean relating to time in the zone rides, sorry for not making that clear in my OP.

Of course, it is true to say that sometimes your AV and NP will be poles apart( intentionally or not) and if the training session calls for it, so be it. As an example, on some rides I used to do exactly as wavefront details, blasting up hills and coasting down the descent. This is a good training session but it wasn't the zone 2 ride my power would suggest.

Good luck fixiebob, it's a bit of a minefield but power's a great tool to play with and a worthwhile investment.

jgsi

My Vectors get a prize double chocolate muffin for behaving impecably this morning on the road.
Pity my HRM needed a new battery 10 mins into the ride... dont think I can justify ave HR of 50 for 50 miles.