Should e-bikes be allowed on regular trails?

Angus Young

stretchy wrote:

Wow guys, don't forget to disregard everyone who may have a different opinion to yours. Just because you are able to ride a "normal" bike or don't enjoy riding an Ebike it doesn't mean that everyone should feel the same way.

Do Ebikes really destroy trails? Why don't we ban people who weigh more than you or can put out more power than you on a normal bike?

Where did anyone dictate what others should feel or disregard another's opinion? Do you find different opinions challenging?

stretchy

cooldad wrote:

stretchy wrote:

Wow guys, don't forget to disregard everyone who may have a different opinion to yours. Just because you are able to ride a bicycle or don't enjoy riding a motorbike it doesn't mean that everyone should feel the same way.

Quite and FTFY

Standard bigotry

cooldad

stretchy wrote:

cooldad wrote:

stretchy wrote:

Wow guys, don't forget to disregard everyone who may have a different opinion to yours. Just because you are able to ride a bicycle or don't enjoy riding a motorbike it doesn't mean that everyone should feel the same way.

Quite and FTFY

Standard bigotry

Harumph. I suggest a strongly worded letter to New Stateman. Or the Mail.
Or blame Wiggle.
Or the French.

stretchy

cooldad wrote:

stretchy wrote:

cooldad wrote:

stretchy wrote:

Wow guys, don't forget to disregard everyone who may have a different opinion to yours. Just because you are able to ride a bicycle or don't enjoy riding a motorbike it doesn't mean that everyone should feel the same way.

Quite and FTFY

Standard bigotry

Harumph. I suggest a strongly worded letter to New Stateman. Or the Mail.
Or blame Wiggle.
Or the French.

Or simply if you don't like electric bikes you could just not buy one? Probably like your grandparents when computers came along.

cooldad

I'm not sure what your point is, but I have no intention of buying one. I do have a motorbike, but don't ride it on bicycle trails.
And quite what my grandparents have to do with it I'm not sure.

But if you are of the opinion that motorbikes are a new invention you might have some problems. Is your name Cody?

stretchy

cooldad wrote:

I'm not sure what your point is, but I have no intention of buying one. I do have a motorbike, but don't ride it on bicycle trails.
And quite what my grandparents have to do with it I'm not sure.

But if you are of the opinion that motorbikes are a new invention you might have some problems. Is your name Cody?

My point is if you don't like them don't buy one. Just don't disregard others because you don't want to ride one. They are highly unlikely to affect you in anyway. Acceptance of others is becoming a problem these days.

If you don't understand the grandparent analogy then i'm not sure i can help you. I'm not sure what me thinking motorbikes are a new invention has got to do with anything. If you think that i believe Ebikes are a new invention then you are mistaken. However their popularity is obviously rising, hence this thread.

Angus Young

stretchy wrote:

cooldad wrote:

I'm not sure what your point is, but I have no intention of buying one. I do have a motorbike, but don't ride it on bicycle trails.
And quite what my grandparents have to do with it I'm not sure.

But if you are of the opinion that motorbikes are a new invention you might have some problems. Is your name Cody?

My point is if you don't like them don't buy one. Just don't disregard others because you don't want to ride one. They are highly unlikely to affect you in anyway. Acceptance of others is becoming a problem these days.

Come on, show us where someone dictated what others should feel or disregarded another's opinion?

Chunkers1980

popularity is only rising as the tech is getting more affordable and better suited to being put/built onto what are essentially normal push bikes. It's where do you draw a line. You wouldn't allow a petrol powered moto on to a bicycle trail would you. Just because an Ebike has at its heart a normal push bike doesn't make it any less a motor powered bike.

stretchy

Angus Young wrote:

Come on, show us where someone dictated what others should feel or disregarded another's opinion?

Ok - but you're going to have to read into what people are writing. I know that is hard for people to do on a forum...

So the majority of people on this thread want a rule against Ebikes, from what i can see. That is dictating to people.

Angus Young wrote:

You forgot to mention how boring they are to ride. Sure, you'll laugh out loud the first few times you pelt up a climb. It's quite something. But once the novelty wears off, they're just plain boring. Half the fun of riding is coming home absolutely shredded by the climb that beat you and then finally beating it back. When you make a climb on an e-bike it's just big deal, so what.

Sure that's your opinion, other people may feel differently. They might like riding Ebikes as it's a means of them actually being able to ride in the first place. You still don't want them on the trails though (disregarding opinion). Maybe you could try and see things from someone else's point of view?

Chunkers1980 wrote:

You wouldn't allow a petrol powered moto on to a bicycle trail would you. Just because an Ebike has at its heart a normal push bike doesn't make it any less a motor powered bike.

No of course not, but an Ebike is not a petrol powered motorbike. In the UK the law allows a maximum of 200W before it's classed as a motorbike. Surely a rule that allows bikes up to a maximum of 200W is logical. Unless you disagree with the law but then I suggest you start writing to the relevant authorities.

cooldad

Angus Young wrote:

Come on, show us where someone dictated what others should feel or disregarded another's opinion?

stretchy wrote:

Ok - but you're going to have to read into what people are writing. I know that is hard for people to do on a forum...

So the majority of people on this thread want a rule against Ebikes, from what i can see. That is dictating to people.

No, it isn't. It's expressing an opinion. I doubt the posters are in any position to 'dictate' trail usage.

Angus Young wrote:

You forgot to mention how boring they are to ride. Sure, you'll laugh out loud the first few times you pelt up a climb. It's quite something. But once the novelty wears off, they're just plain boring. Half the fun of riding is coming home absolutely shredded by the climb that beat you and then finally beating it back. When you make a climb on an e-bike it's just big deal, so what.

stretchy wrote:

Sure that's your opinion, other people may feel differently. They might like riding Ebikes as it's a means of them actually being able to ride in the first place. You still don't want them on the trails though (disregarding opinion). Maybe you could try and see things from someone else's point of view?

Pot meet kettle.

Chunkers1980 wrote:

You wouldn't allow a petrol powered moto on to a bicycle trail would you. Just because an Ebike has at its heart a normal push bike doesn't make it any less a motor powered bike.

stretchy wrote:

No of course not, but an Ebike is not a petrol powered motorbike. In the UK the law allows a maximum of 200W before it's classed as a motorbike. Surely a rule that allows bikes up to a maximum of 200W is logical. Unless you disagree with the law but then I suggest you start writing to the relevant authorities.

Could be, but a point was made earlier that they are often far more powerful than that.

stretchy

cooldad wrote:

No, it isn't. It's expressing an opinion. I doubt the posters are in anu position to 'dictate' trail usage.

Pot meet kettle.

Could be, but a point was made earlier that they are often far more powerful than that.

1 - But they want to dictate trail usage...
2 - No sorry, I merely stated what other people may think. I don't own or plan on owning an Ebike anytime soon my personal opinion on the experience of riding a bike is actually closer to that of Angus Youngs. Just sick of seeing we don't want you riding *here* on *that* (insert road/trail and bicycle/Ebike where appropriate).
3 - Then if they are then they are riding a motorbike and that would be dangerous to other users.

Chunkers1980

That's the thing - at trail centres there are no laws regarding what can and cannot be used there - just what whoever owns the land wants to allow.

stretchy

Chunkers1980 wrote:

That's the thing - at trail centres there are no laws regarding what can and cannot be used there - just what whoever owns the land wants to allow.

They don't say no motorbikes? I've not read many of the signs to be fair.

Chunkers1980

And I suspect in the next few years landowners will just say a flat no or only on this trail. Fast human powered bike = good and drives people on to get better and fitter. Fast Ebikes will just pi$$ human powered bikes off. I can't see a max power rated trail ever happening as it'd be far to hard to 'police'

Angus Young

stretchy wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

Come on, show us where someone dictated what others should feel or disregarded another's opinion?

Ok - but you're going to have to read into what people are writing. I know that is hard for people to do on a forum...

As you've so ably demonstrated.

stretchy wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

You forgot to mention how boring they are to ride. Sure, you'll laugh out loud the first few times you pelt up a climb. It's quite something. But once the novelty wears off, they're just plain boring. Half the fun of riding is coming home absolutely shredded by the climb that beat you and then finally beating it back. When you make a climb on an e-bike it's just big deal, so what.

Sure that's your opinion, other people may feel differently. They might like riding Ebikes as it's a means of them actually being able to ride in the first place. You still don't want them on the trails though (disregarding opinion). Maybe you could try and see things from someone else's point of view?

Yes, it is my opinion. Nothing more. If people want to ride them, what business is it of mine? Nowhere have I said people shouldn't be riding them. I don't understand why people would want to, but I have nothing against them doing so. If it makes people happy that's great. I did nothing more than give my limited riding impressions. And, for the most part, that's been the general tone.

And, somehow, you've turned that into me/everyone not wanting them on the trails.

stretchy

Well if you read the thread you will notice the anti Ebike theme... I merely picked your quote as you were the one replying.

Angus Young

stretchy wrote:

Well if you read the thread you will notice the anti Ebike theme... I merely picked your quote as you were the one replying.

Well, if you actually read the thread, I mean actually read what is written, people are saying "I don't like them." "I don't get why you'd want to ride one." "They miss the point." etc, etc. There's not much that says "I don't like them so no-one should be riding them." beyond some concern for what they might or might not do to the trails. The rest you made up in your own mind.

stretchy

Maybe, not many said they should be allowed either so it's what you make it.

rockmonkeysc

I also dont believe they should be allowed on mountain bike trails.
I dont believe they are compatible with human powered bicycles, they are faster up hills due to their motors but are much slower on technical trails due to their extra weight. They also need jumps built differently due to the much greater weight

Angus Young

stretchy wrote:

Maybe, not many said they should be allowed either so it's what you make it.

A friend of mine has one and he loves it. And if it makes him happy, that's great. I take the p!ss, but he's enjoying himself it's a good thing.

Angus Young

RockmonkeySC wrote:

they are faster up hills due to their motors but are much slower on technical trails due to their extra weight

No different from any other rider you encounter who's slower than you.

rockmonkeysc

They are a lot slower and then speed up in the places where a quick rider could normally pedal hard to get past.
Fortunately they are banned from cycle races and organisers have said insuring them for their own category is not practical. They have been banned from a couple bike parks, i remember reading about it but forget which parks.

kajjal

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

they are faster up hills due to their motors but are much slower on technical trails due to their extra weight

No different from any other rider you encounter who's slower than you.

It's not right to exclude people from mountain biking due to disability, age or injury. If E-Bikes were like motorcross bikes I could understand people objecting.

Angus Young

You could save a fortune on the uplift at BPW!

rockmonkeysc

I guess the places that have banned them have done so for good reasons. Im guessing insurance could be one factor, maybe they have found that they cause damage to trails.
They wont ban potential customers unless they have to.
Maybe they need their own trails. Forest of Dean built a trail for DH quads which was great but then so manyoumtain bikers got injured by overjumping the very short tables which werent built for bikes (I overjumped one table by a good ten foot without pedaling). After six ambulances were called in one day they changed the trails to suit mountain bikes where I think they should have banned mountain bikes from the trail.

cooldad

Kajjal wrote:

It's not right to exclude people from mountain biking due to disability, age or injury. If E-Bikes were like motorcross bikes I could understand people objecting.

An assisted bike I agree with but where do you draw the line?

2kw and 40mph?



The torque of a 250cc MX bike?



8000 watts and 66mph?

Angus Young

All I could find was them being banned in America somewhere.

Even if they do cause some issues, the only one I've seen out on the trails or at centres is my friend's, so it's not a big deal.

cooldad

Angus Young wrote:

All I could find was them being banned in America somewhere.

Even if they do cause some issues, the only one I've seen out on the trails or at centres is my friend's, so it's not a big deal.

Yes. But I doubt trail centres want things like above hammering down the trails.

And most of the other stuff is on FC etc land. They might have similar issues, then we all suffer.

And don't get me started on walkers getting buzzed at crazy speeds.

Angus Young

cooldad wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

All I could find was them being banned in America somewhere.

Even if they do cause some issues, the only one I've seen out on the trails or at centres is my friend's, so it's not a big deal.

Yes. But I doubt trail centres want things like above hammering down the trails.

And most of the other stuff is on FC etc land. They might have similar issues, then we all suffer.

And don't get me started on walkers getting buzzed at crazy speeds.

Agreed, that stuff's ridiculous. But there are plenty of more reasonable variations.

rockmonkeysc

cyd190468 wrote:

Maybe they just need to say that to be an e-bike they must be hub driven. That would effectively limit the size of motor you could use.

No it wouldnt. I should think even I could design a hub to take 1000 Nm of torque. Rules like that just act as a challenge to designers.