Virtual training, software & turbo choice
Comments
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I could do with some advice before I spend money on something that won't do what I want it to do.
Looking for a turbo that lets me have the following. Control the power in apps such as Trainerroad, have the ability to ride virtual routes & use Strava segments.
The Wahoo Kickr appears to tick all the boxes but I would prefer to avoid the cost if possible.
Looked at the Tacx Vortex & Bushido units but the information on their ability to achieve my needs is a bit confusing. Some sites indicate they would work and others suggest the need for an upgrade kit.
Is there anything that would recommend around £500.00 that would tick my boxes?
I have the same question! The Wahoo Kickr Snap looks good but still expensive at £650. Would have to work with Trainerroad on iPhone (perhaps with ANT+ dongle) and Zwift on PC.0 -
Pop over to DC rainmakers site where he has assessed the impact of the new fec Ant extension and support from Tacx. I have a Bkool, which i really enjoy using not least because of the community that has built up around it but Bkool run a closed ant+ restricting smart use t their software.
Thanks and will do, I had noticed that the BKool wouldn't tie in with Trainerroad.
Can you tell me if the BKool software lets you use the Sufferfest videos?
Only those that you get with a strava premium. They change every now and again. You can run sufferfest using the bkool as a dummy trainer-without any power-but you don,t get the resistance. The guys at sufferfest assure me they are going to tie up with bkool at some point but i doubt we will see it without Bkool adopting fec or at least opening up their ant profile.
That said, Bkool is great. I take part in 2 online leagues, one the mountain goats, and its a blast to pit yourself against other users live observing them pulling ahead on screen. Or overtaking them. I myself try harder than i might using trainer road and sufferfest vids. I am doing Alp Duez tonight -long and slow to get the legs ready for the alps in 2 weeks. Having done it before i can tell you the resistance ramps up making it v difficult to ride even on 34/28.
there is an active bkool forum over at cyclechat.0 -
I wouldn't buy any trainer now which doesn't support FE/C (unless it's a dumb trainer of course). As that's the protocol everyone is going to be supporting then it doesn't make sense to get anything else.
I'm led to believe you'll be able to control resistance etc from Garmin head units.0 -
I wouldn't buy any trainer now which doesn't support FE/C (unless it's a dumb trainer of course). As that's the protocol everyone is going to be supporting then it doesn't make sense to get anything else.
I'm led to believe you'll be able to control resistance etc from Garmin head units.
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I guess the main question is does likes of the Wahoo Kickr (£900), or Kickr Snap (£650), do anything which the Tacx Vortex http://www.wiggle.co.uk/tacx-vortex-smart-trainer/ (£360) doesn't do?
Or if I want to use Trainer road, Zwift or just ride to power it doesn't matter?
This page seems to suggest it may well be the case https://www.tacx.com/en/products/software/ant-open however they don't mention specific trainers.0 -
I guess the main question is does likes of the Wahoo Kickr (£900), or Kickr Snap (£650), do anything which the Tacx Vortex http://www.wiggle.co.uk/tacx-vortex-smart-trainer/ (£360) doesn't do?
Or if I want to use Trainer road, Zwift or just ride to power it doesn't matter?
This page seems to suggest it may well be the case https://www.tacx.com/en/products/software/ant-open however they don't mention specific trainers.
Wow, on reading that it looks like the Tacx vortex would work with the apps I want?
Great find0 -
Wow, on reading that it looks like the Tacx vortex would work with the apps I want?
Great find
I hope so because it does present a hell of a saving over the Wahoo Kickr, so I'm wondering where the catch is (And don't say it's the blue bit at the back
) 0 -
Wow, on reading that it looks like the Tacx vortex would work with the apps I want?
Great find
I hope so because it does present a hell of a saving over the Wahoo Kickr, so I'm wondering where the catch is (And don't say it's the blue bit at the back )
This > http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/06/trainer-profile-zwifttrainerroadkinomap.html0 -
Sweet. That's on my wish list for the autumn then!0
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Wow, on reading that it looks like the Tacx vortex would work with the apps I want?
Great find
I hope so because it does present a hell of a saving over the Wahoo Kickr, so I'm wondering where the catch is (And don't say it's the blue bit at the back )
The catch is the power accuracy. The Kickr has a power meter built in, whilst the Tacx trainers calculate power based on the flywheel I think. If you already train with power, and have another meter, you'll need to try and perhaps do a step test to see what the differences are.
It won't come with any software, which is another 100 quid or so, but this isn't a drawback as the Tacx TTS software is absolutely awful.
Spare a thought for me - I have the previous model of Vortex (T1960), which doesn't get the update, so I still have to use TTS. Which, for the avoidance of doubt, is shite. It was too expensive to switch for one that gets the update - I'd rather get the Kickr in that case.0 -
The catch is the power accuracy. The Kickr has a power meter built in, whilst the Tacx trainers calculate power based on the flywheel I think. If you already train with power, and have another meter, you'll need to try and perhaps do a step test to see what the differences are.
But if you already have a power meter then you could just use that rather than the Tacx virtual power?
It won't come with any software, which is another 100 quid or so, but this isn't a drawback as the Tacx TTS software is absolutely awful.
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£100? There's the likes of trainer road for a tenner a month or Zwift which is currently free?
The only catch I can see is the max 7% slope, but that's usually enough to see me in bottom gear or thereabouts so that'll be ok.0 -
You could use your existing power meter. What I was getting at (and in retrospect, you had no way of knowing!), is that I have an old bike permanently attached to the Vortex, but no PM on my 'outdoors' bike. If I did get a PM, it would give me very different power outputs from the Tacx, which would be a pain.
If you've already got a PM on the bike you use on the turbo, then I guess it's no heartache. Although, if you do a power based workout where Trainerroad (or whatever), controls the resistance based on power, then it'll be the power that the Vortex thinks you're putting out, not your PM. Unless it's intelligent enough to adjust it based on what your PM is transmitting - I don't know.
And that is exactly my point about the software - the Kickr comes with (supposedly) useful software, whereas the Tacx doesn't, and you'll need to shell out for some. Which isn't entirely a bad thing, as if it did come with the software, it'd be £100 more expensive and you'd have some crap software.0 -
Yeah. I think - I haven't tried it - that you can get up Trainer Road to work with an external PM not just the one from the trainer. I think Zwift is similar.
Isn't the Tacx software a free download anyway, at least for iOS?0 -
I got the Android version of the app and it was worse than the PC software.
For me the ideal is workouts where you can be guaranteed you're working to the prescribed power (say, 10 minutes at 80% FTP, 5 mins easy, 10 minutes at 80%). It's great to do an FTP test and then ride to those limits, knowing the trainer will keep you right if you try and ease up.
If Tacx opening up their trainers means that you can use and app like Trainerroad to read power from a PowerTap and adjust the resistance on the turbo to keep you at a prescribed power, then you're laughing. Well, I would be if it was me.
It's too expensive for me to switch, so I'll probably need to manually calibrate if I ever get a PM.0 -
Looking at the Tacx Vortex Smart and Tacx Bushido Smart.
Vortex is around £350 and Bushido around £450.
As far as I can tell the advantage of the Bushido is that it can do 1400w as opposed to 900w and 14% slope as opposed to 7% slope. The Bushido doesn't require plugging in.
Is that the only real difference?
The wattage doesn't matter to me, the slope would be good as I often ride >7%, but do I need that in training? Not having to plug into the electric would be a big advantage even just from the setup time it saves.0 -
Looking at the Tacx Vortex Smart and Tacx Bushido Smart.
Vortex is around £350 and Bushido around £450.
As far as I can tell the advantage of the Bushido is that it can do 1400w as opposed to 900w and 14% slope as opposed to 7% slope. The Bushido doesn't require plugging in.
Is that the only real difference?
The wattage doesn't matter to me, the slope would be good as I often ride >7%, but do I need that in training? Not having to plug into the electric would be a big advantage even just from the setup time it saves.
What will you be training for? Riding in the mountains or crits or sportives ? If the former the there is a huge difference training at over 7%. I rode Toumalet this evening and Alp D'Huez earlier this week as part of my training for my Alps trip. Having to generate power to ride for long periods at over 7% is what mattered to me. And it hurts! Much more than hill repeats where you get to recover. Hope that helps.0 -
The wattage doesn't matter to me, the slope would be good as I often ride >7%, but do I need that in training? Not having to plug into the electric would be a big advantage even just from the setup time it saves.
What will you be training for? Riding in the mountains or crits or sportives ? If the former the there is a huge difference training at over 7%. I rode Toumalet this evening and Alp D'Huez earlier this week as part of my training for my Alps trip. Having to generate power to ride for long periods at over 7% is what mattered to me. And it hurts! Much more than hill repeats where you get to recover. Hope that helps.[/quote]
Not racing, but certainly more towards the mountain side of things. Where I live in County Durham it's quite hilly, very hilly if you go to the west to the Pennines, there's a local 20% climb which is popular with the club.
I'm intrigued by the idea of riding a real life route on the trainer as it gives you some grounding that an arbitrary workout doesn't.
Interesting thoughts, what trainer are you using to simulate those climbs?0 -
Looking at the Tacx Vortex Smart and Tacx Bushido Smart.
Vortex is around £350 and Bushido around £450.
As far as I can tell the advantage of the Bushido is that it can do 1400w as opposed to 900w and 14% slope as opposed to 7% slope. The Bushido doesn't require plugging in.
Is that the only real difference?
The wattage doesn't matter to me, the slope would be good as I often ride >7%, but do I need that in training? Not having to plug into the electric would be a big advantage even just from the setup time it saves.
It's a different type of brake altogether (no Airplane! jokes please!) from memory, although I can't recall the difference.
I thought the wireless thing would be great (the Vortex has a wireless head unit/connection to PC), but in reality the trainer has sat in the same place for four years, so it wasn't necessary!0 -
I'm intrigued by the idea of riding a real life route on the trainer as it gives you some grounding that an arbitrary workout doesn't.
Interesting thoughts, what trainer are you using to simulate those climbs?
If you buy any trainer that can generate 500+ watts then you can simulate most slopes you'd want to ride. Unless you are on EPO.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
Instagramme0 -
The wattage doesn't matter to me, the slope would be good as I often ride >7%, but do I need that in training? Not having to plug into the electric would be a big advantage even just from the setup time it saves.
What will you be training for? Riding in the mountains or crits or sportives ? If the former the there is a huge difference training at over 7%. I rode Toumalet this evening and Alp D'Huez earlier this week as part of my training for my Alps trip. Having to generate power to ride for long periods at over 7% is what mattered to me. And it hurts! Much more than hill repeats where you get to recover. Hope that helps.
Not racing, but certainly more towards the mountain side of things. Where I live in County Durham it's quite hilly, very hilly if you go to the west to the Pennines, there's a local 20% climb which is popular with the club.
I'm intrigued by the idea of riding a real life route on the trainer as it gives you some grounding that an arbitrary workout doesn't.
Interesting thoughts, what trainer are you using to simulate those climbs?[/quote]
I use the Bkool. As you know resistance ramps up automatically as the gradient increases. That's more important to me- even if accuracy is questionable - than huge watts.0 -
Hello,
I'm looking at buying the Cycleops Powerbeam Pro and have seen it for below £700, but this is without the Joule head unit. Is the Joule essential ? What functionality would I be losing (note: I have a Garmin 810) by not getting the Joule ?
Thanks in advance,
Will0 -
Dc Rainmaker has reported bkool has now updated the hardware on its most recent model and software so it's now ant+ fec. So, compatible with Tainer road, Zwift etc. I am laid up with a dodgy back but looking forward to trying it out, especially to see if TR and the sufferfest vids work.0
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Hello,
I'm looking at buying the Cycleops Powerbeam Pro and have seen it for below £700, but this is without the Joule head unit. Is the Joule essential ? What functionality would I be losing (note: I have a Garmin 810) by not getting the Joule ?
Thanks in advance,
Will
Old post but if it's still relevent the garmin can't calibrate the powerbeam, so the joule is needed for that. Although if you use a the cycleops virtual training software on pc or phone/tablet or even trainerroad you can do the calibration through that without needing the joule0 -
Anyone know of any sort of app for iPhone which will give some sort of virtual environment or map etc when paired with my power / cadence / HRM?
I'm thinking along the lines of Zwift but I their app is PC only, but I have an iPhone mount for my stem so I could do with something else of interest to look at other than the numbers on my Garmin. I know about TrainerRoad but I was thinking along the lines of more entertainment based.0 -
Bkool is now working great with Trainer road as well as Zwift. It took them a long time to get the Ant+fec out to the public all good now.
Trainer road users will need to update their software but have been advised NOT to re-calibrate once in the device screen even though the option is there. It is not necessary.0
