You jumped a red light - i'm booking you!
Comments
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Well if you say it's no big deal it must be true!type:epyt wrote:To those holier than thou nitwits having a go at the OP for 'jumping' the lights, it's hardly crime of the century and so long as it doesn't inconvenience other road users or pedestrians then it's no big deal.
I do what the OP did at certain junctions for no other reason than my own safety as the road narrows beyond the junctions and you risk getting run into the railings/parked vehicles as every driver dabs the accelerator to get in front before the road narrows.
I also go through pedestrian crossings if everyone has finished crossing, albeit at about walking pace ... technically not correct but again, no inconvenience to anyone so no matter....
So you see these as victimless breaches and therefore everything is fine. I have a few issues with that attitude but I'll stick to the most pertinent one to most cyclists: A huge proportion of motorists consider cyclists in general to be selfish, irresponsible, a$$holes. There are two reasons driving this attitude. First is that cyclists make them feel bad, can't be helped mostly. Second is that cyclists, like you, provide a wealth of ammunition for anyone wanting to take pot shots. This second bit is where you come in....
How do we make them feel bad? Well to give two examples: If you're sitting in a queue of traffic and a cyclist or motorcyclist goes by you kinda resent them; admit it. If you get stuck behind a tractor, horsebox, caravan or cyclist on a windy road, most people get frustrated, this can turn to anger and anger loves someone to blame.
There's nothing wrong with this, it's life and it's how our minds tend to work.
But while drivers are having these negative feelings about us and are looking for someone to blame for their lot in life, we (or more accurately guys like you) then paint a big "I'm an a$$hole" sign on our backs and provide a mountain of evidence of being blameworthy by running red lights, cycling on the wrong side of the road, riding at night with no lights, and a vast number of other offences I just can't think of right now....
So huge numbers of drivers start to feel justified in assigning blame to cyclists, and they don't draw careful boundaries around which cyclists they're blaming. No, all cyclists are equally tarnished. You deserve it, I don't. Yet I still have to live with the contempt of a big proportion of the adult population who now consider cyclists in a very poor light.
Cycling has only one really big problem and it's the attitude of the general, non-cycling, public. You, personally, are contributing to the biggest problem in cycling. I happen to believe that is a big deal.
In summary:
You say it inconveniences no-one.
I say you and those like you make all cyclists suffer.0 -
All these people jumping on the "your actions were wrong wagon" are pretty ignorant.
Moving ten yards to clip in and therefore slow down motorists a bit less when you know the lights and the road is hardly akin flying through them with no regard.0 -
^ Exactly, we're not talking about zigzagging through counterflow at 25mph ...
And to those who feel I'm making their life 'hell' by proxy ... Glad to be of service; thousands more are busy not noticing the difference.Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0 -
Undertones wrote:All these people jumping on the "your actions were wrong wagon" are pretty ignorant.
Moving ten yards to clip in and therefore slow down motorists a bit less when you know the lights and the road is hardly akin flying through them with no regard.
The offence is failing to stop at the stop line. As soon as you cross it, you commit the offence even if it is to go 10 yards trying to clip in.Imposter wrote:Not sure it is 'different things', to be fair. philthy3 says that you don't have to be in uniform to carry out a stop - the official guidance (or at least the guidance on the N Yorks police site) seems to suggest otherwise. Either way, it's worth clarifying.
It's as explained by diy; a police officer has a power to stop a motor vehicle in or out of uniform. If you fail to stop for a police officer in uniform, you commit an offence. Failing to stop for an officer in plain clothes has an easily obtainable defence of "I didn't know it was a police officer, so didn't stop". Individual forces may have policy and procedures that may stipulate their officers will not even attempt to stop a vehicle when not in uniform, based purely on health and safety grounds. A police officer does not have to be uniform to stop a person on foot or on a pedal cycle and may use reasonable force to detain the person if the grounds exist.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
Red rag to a bull this thread title, wasn't it?0
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Thanks (mostly) for the replies, and the research some have done.
Some people get really uptight about light jumping, as mentioned, it's human nature to feel bitter towards those who gain an "unfair" advantage. But it's a jungle out there, and you have to make your choices.
I personally find it hard to understand the anger my technical, but not ethical light jump caused last night, but also on here! Hey ho.0 -
You've been on here for 8 years and not noticed how much red light jumping winds people up on here?
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on helmets?0 -
Gozzy wrote:You've been on here for 8 years and not noticed how much red light jumping winds people up on here?
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on helmets?
I'm generally here for the technical, rather than social stuff.
I can't think of anything witty to say, so I'll just say that I love them. I have a variety for every type of occasion. At the moment I'm mostry rocking a hi viz lazer genesis with the clear aero (rain) cover.
I'd never been on my bike without one. My head, whilst being incredibly attractive, is also quite functionally important to me.
I hope my helmet will protect me if I ever need it.0 -
http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/index.php/home/faqs/229-road-related-incidents/2953-what-should-i-do-if-there-is-an-unmarked-police-car-travelling-behind-me-flashing-me-to-stop
This advice from Wiltshire Police says that unless there's a uniformed police officer in an unmarked car you don't have to stop. This guy was in a plain car so officially had no right to stop anyone even if he had been police. He was claiming DVLA with rights only police have which is nuts. The OP was wrong in his riding over the stop line when lights on red but he was right in ditching that nutter. Although I'd actually worry if that driver was stable in his temperament. A guy to avoid at any costs.
I wonder how many on here have never jumped a red light. I've seen loads do it. There's a pedestrian crossing on my commute, actually 2 of them. These crossings get people pressing the button then realizing they can cross. The lights then turn red without anyone there. I've seen cyclists not even slowing. I've seen other situations which cyclists feel that red light doesn't apply to them. There's an on demand set of lights which doesn't trigger by a cyclist crossing the sensors half the time. Cyclists know this so sneak out through the red lights. Trouble is those lights are linked with a second set straight after. That means they go through 2 red lights.
Whilst I agree with all comments about how RLJs give all cyclists a bad image but I suspect most have jumped a light at some time. Doesn't earn us a chase by a nutterthough.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:http://www.wiltshire.police.uk/index.php/home/faqs/229-road-related-incidents/2953-what-should-i-do-if-there-is-an-unmarked-police-car-travelling-behind-me-flashing-me-to-stop
This advice from Wiltshire Police says that unless there's a uniformed police officer in an unmarked car you don't have to stop. This guy was in a plain car so officially had no right to stop anyone even if he had been police. He was claiming DVLA with rights only police have which is nuts. The OP was wrong in his riding over the stop line when lights on red but he was right in ditching that nutter. Although I'd actually worry if that driver was stable in his temperament. A guy to avoid at any costs.
I wonder how many on here have never jumped a red light. I've seen loads do it. There's a pedestrian crossing on my commute, actually 2 of them. These crossings get people pressing the button then realizing they can cross. The lights then turn red without anyone there. I've seen cyclists not even slowing. I've seen other situations which cyclists feel that red light doesn't apply to them. There's an on demand set of lights which doesn't trigger by a cyclist crossing the sensors half the time. Cyclists know this so sneak out through the red lights. Trouble is those lights are linked with a second set straight after. That means they go through 2 red lights.
Whilst I agree with all comments about how RLJs give all cyclists a bad image but I suspect most have jumped a light at some time. Doesn't earn us a chase by a nutterthough.
Wiltshire are merely advising the public not to stop unless there is an officer in uniform and not what powers an officer in plain clothes has, which is, they can attempt to stop a motor vehicle. Many forces suffer with car hijackings and often where a passenger has flashed something pretending it to be a warrant card and got the driver to stop. One way of preventing such hijackings is to advise the public not to stop unless they see an officer in uniform in the vehicle. That doesn't mean a police officer in plain clothes does not have the power to try and stop a vehicle.
It matters not in this incident anyway as a pedal cycle is not a motor vehicle or a mechanically propelled vehicle. It is a pedal cycle. If the person attempting to get the OP to stop were a police officer and in plain clothes, he could have used reasonable force to detain him in order to report him for the offence.
Personally I have never jumped a stop line at a set of traffic lights and IMO, anyone who does, is a candidate for the Darwin awards and brings the wrath of the idiot motorists down on the rest of us. 5 seconds to clip in; big deal.I ride a bike. Doesn't make me green or a tree hugger. I drive a car too.0 -
Dittophilthy3 wrote:.....Personally I have never jumped a stop line at a set of traffic lights and IMO, anyone who does, is a candidate for the Darwin awards and brings the wrath of the idiot motorists down on the rest of us. 5 seconds to clip in; big deal.
If you really think a road or junction is too dangerous to cycle on without breaking red lights then it's too dangerous to cycle on full stop! Besides, don't most junctions have a cyclist box ahead of the car stop line anyway, allowing you to legally position yourself ahead of the motor traffic while waiting for the lights to change?0 -
In heavy traffic you can find yourself filtering up to the front because well you may as well drive if you want to wait at the back of 100 cars.
Sometimes you'll find a lorry at the front, I'll either tuck in behind it but if that isn't possible, ride through and sit in front, in view of the driver, regardless of any bits of paint on the road.
I don't buy into this never ever kind of stuff.0 -
Sorry I want to clarify, because there is confusion:
Officer in uniform is not limited to police officer
requirement to stop for an officer in uniform covers cycles too.
When I used to teach advanced riding (which funny enough included teaching plod occasionally) we never filtered to the front of the lights. Hanging one or two back gives you 90% of the advantage for 10% of the risk.0 -
diy wrote:Sorry I want to clarify, because there is confusion:
Officer in uniform is not limited to police officer
You mean we also need to stop if someone from the Salvation Army tries to pull us up? L0 -
Why is it 10% of the risk?diy wrote:....When I used to teach advanced riding (which funny enough included teaching plod occasionally) we never filtered to the front of the lights. Hanging one or two back gives you 90% of the advantage for 10% of the risk.
I don't understand the rationale0 -
@imposter
best approach is to shout - "you'll never take me alive rozzer" though increasingly that may well end up true. :shock:
Seriously though - its a complete mess as govt. attempts to fix the old boys/unionised stranglehold that police officers have on policing duties and get better value by offloading the grunt work to the.. well.. grunts. Hence we see all sorts of pseudo police out an about from traffic officers - to special constables.
Then what tends to happen is legislation is rushed through to deal with their lack of powers.
@ai_1
Moving to the front of the queue vs. hanging one or two back has at least the following:
1. The risk of getting run over as the lights change as you get to the front
2. the risk of getting run over by people pulling away on red/amber
3. the risk of being hit by a car jumping the red the other way as you are first to pull away
1 & 2 are pretty significant risks - they rank pretty high in plod cas/stats for junction accidents - Being 1 or 2 back
Gives you more time for 1 & 2, 3 is also less likely.
On a motorbike you lose absolutely bugger all as you can pass those 2 cars as soon as the traffic pulls away. I appreciate on a bike you may drop a couple of seconds.0 -
The fact that he's jumped a red light is irrelevant.
No one can pull you over legally unless they are a Police officer.
Other road users could ask you to stop but you don't have to.
Taking the law into your own hands isn't really allowed.
People get far too wound up in traffic, the driver needed to relax, this guy running a red light had no effect on his journey. It may be illegal and certainly shouldn't have been done but at the end of the day it's nothing to do with any of the other road users.0 -
There is a difference between running a red light and rolling through a changing junction.
Just like there is a difference between keyboard warriors and those with half a brain. The latter it seems, have decided to ignore this thread.Advocate of disc brakes.0 -
^^this.
I'm not sure I really want someone who works for an organisation that has statutory powers such as the DVLA being such a loose cannon. Whilst we could be charitable and say that by flashing his DVLA ID card he wasn't attempting to impersonate a police officer, and was just woefully ignorant of the powers granted to him under the law, I don't think he can excuse blocking the OP's path in such a manner that could have caused an accident. He wasn't a stuntman in an episode of the Professionals, for goodness sake, and the OP s wasn't an international terrorist trying to make a getaway.
Poor show, really.0 -
To be fair to the keyboard warriors, he didn't actually deny this anywhere in this forum. I think we should be concerned.JJSH wrote:the OP s wasn't an international terrorist trying to make a getaway.0 -
I'm in the colonies so my reply may well be flushed away shorty, but many police jurisdictions over here have publicly told motorist, motorcyclist and cyclist, not to stop instantly for someone in an unmarked vehicle, or even one looking like a former law enforcement vehicle (the states have an unfortunate love for selling off old police cars to the public, requiring that they be cleared of official markings and repainted from the obvious colourway schemes.)
My locale in Florida had had a rash of some nut pulling over young women as if he as an officer, and in an old police vehicle, and raping them. We are told that if we question their authority to put on our flashers (if in an automobile,) or keep riding (if on a bicycle,) and get somewhere public and safe, call the police on our 911 number and ask that a supervisor be dispatched to your location as you suspect a fake police person. Some bad things have resulted from deviants that like to impersonate law enforcement officers here in the states.
One question, has anyone contacted the local police station, to see if this person was legitimate, (or the other government agencies that you have cited, I'm not familiar with the UK governing police, or MoT, setups)?
Sorry for intruding on the thread, please carry on, its as good as a helmet thread in Bikeforums.net, and much better than a chain lubricant question thread there, in here.Lets just got for a ride, the heck with all this stuff...0 -
Thank you for pointing out that this is in fact an option, and very often the best one. Can't count the number of times I've seen people going to great lengths to make it to the front of a queue regardless of the risks involved.diy wrote:When I used to teach advanced riding (which funny enough included teaching plod occasionally) we never filtered to the front of the lights. Hanging one or two back gives you 90% of the advantage for 10% of the risk.0 -
adr82 wrote:
Thank you for pointing out that this is in fact an option, and very often the best one. Can't count the number of times I've seen people going to great lengths to make it to the front of a queue regardless of the risks involved.diy wrote:When I used to teach advanced riding (which funny enough included teaching plod occasionally) we never filtered to the front of the lights. Hanging one or two back gives you 90% of the advantage for 10% of the risk.
I never see the point in going to the head of a queue of traffic at red lights, only for the traffic to have to overtake me again. In a busy town with loads of lights this can be repeated at each set of lights. Just sit in traffic at the lights and progress last the traffic at other times. You think people get wound up if you jump a red light, see how wound up they get when you roll past them and then hold them up when the lights go green.0 -
But they love it when you don't bother unclipping and lean on their bonnet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXxDSP9SfrIAdvocate of disc brakes.0 -
homers double wrote:But they love it when you don't bother unclipping and lean on their bonnet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXxDSP9SfrI
Classic 0 -
Almost as good as the comments below...I'm a daily bike commuter, triathlete, and former bike racer, and I think this is funny. I would never lean on a car in traffic. I do not have permission to touch another's property. If I don't want to bother unclipping a pedal to stop at a red light (and I do stop at all red lights), I'll do a track stand as long as I can. Dude shouldn't have been leaning on the car. Lighten up cyclists; this is not one of the things I have to worry about on the roads.Advocate of disc brakes.0
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diy wrote:
When I used to teach advanced riding (which funny enough included teaching plod occasionally) we never filtered to the front of the lights. Hanging one or two back gives you 90% of the advantage for 10% of the risk.
Does this advice remain true with the increasing numbers of ASLs, or am I missing something?0 -
The risks are almost the same. Though you have a safety in numbers angle with an ASL plus drivers are likely to be slightly more sympathetic. If you see the lights go red and know you've got plenty of time, then 1 goes a bit, you also have the width of the ASL to deal with 2.
The primary issue is very few drivers look in their mirrors or blindspots when pulling away from the lights - particularly if they "know" whats behind them in terms of traffic.0 -
The biggest risks very often come in the process of getting to the front of a queue, not where you go once you get there. Even if there's a nice big ASL waiting for you (and it is by some miracle free of encroaching vehicles), you might have to get there by squeezing up the inside of a truck or generally risking getting caught in a bad place if the lights change before you arrive. Often you can't tell if an ASL is clear from the back of a queue, so you get people filtering up and then finding themselves stuck on the inside of large vehicles because there's nowhere else for them to go.stifflersmom wrote:diy wrote:
When I used to teach advanced riding (which funny enough included teaching plod occasionally) we never filtered to the front of the lights. Hanging one or two back gives you 90% of the advantage for 10% of the risk.
Does this advice remain true with the increasing numbers of ASLs, or am I missing something?
Hanging back is a good idea because you avoid all those problems and can move off as part of the stream of traffic, in a nice primary position, rather than being squeezed between a line of moving cars and the side of the road.0 -
I don't understand the cyclist who simply goes to the front…because he can..because theres a little box that only THEY are allowed in..and damn..I'm going in it..even if it means snaking alongside a million ton lorry to get there!
There is too much cycling bravado as it's popularity increases..I have said it before…NOBODY sets off on a journey with the aim of terrorising other road users..but there are some cyclists who simply antagonise other people with their sanctimonious "I AM IN THE RIGHT" approach…it's long been my view…it doesn't matter one jot whether you are right or not when someone else's failure to understand the road knocks you off, no amount of bleating I was right stops the pain…. I believe if everyone, cyclists included took a step back… WE CAN COEXIST!!!0
