Is this the end of page 3

ballysmate

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... odels.html

End of an era or long overdue?

bernithebiker

Ballysmate wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2917170/No-Page-3-Report-says-UKs-Sun-drops-topless-models.html

End of an era or long overdue?

Thanks for keeping us abreast of the situation.

MisterMuncher

Murdoch would like to pretend he's reacting to a changing world and slightly more enlightened times, but anyone who thinks this is anything other than a commercial decision is raving mad. It was becoming more and more toxic in the public eye as time went on, so they jumped before the push came.

They have shown absolutely no understanding of the problem with page 3.

ballysmate

I remember in the 70s when Page 3 girls were household names. Can't name any current ones.
On the occasions I look at The Sun now, I can't remember paying any particular attention to Page 3 at all. I suppose with all the imagery of pretty girls available, it has become an irrelevance.
Don't get me wrong, I don't feel any moral outrage, but perhaps people are no longer interested.

debeli

This was not a decision (final or otherwise) driven by morality or decency.

The Sun is a significant part of a successful media and publishing empire and these decisions will be driven by more pragmatic judgement.

It seems a step forward, but in an age when my teenage sons are two clicks away from any type of pornography they may want, it may be a matter of no consequence whatever. The Sun is not (and in my lifetime has not been) a moral beacon. It's function is to sell both itself and the other media services provided by its owner. It does both very well.

At least the Sun didn't go all 'Je suis Charlie' with its final Page Three and show a picture of a topless woman with her face covered by a veil.... Or maybe that would have been brave, tactless, tasteless, inclusive and offensive in equal measure.

ballysmate

Debeli wrote:

This was not a decision (final or otherwise) driven by morality or decency.

The Sun is a significant part of a successful media and publishing empire and these decisions will be driven by more pragmatic judgement.

It seems a step forward, but in an age when my teenage sons are two clicks away from any type of pornography they may want, it may be a matter of no consequence whatever. The Sun is not (and in my lifetime has not been) a moral beacon. It's function is to sell both itself and the other media services provided by its owner. It does both very well.

At least the Sun didn't go all 'Je suis Charlie' with its final Page Three and show a picture of a topless woman with her face covered by a veil.... Or maybe that would have been brave, tactless, tasteless, inclusive and offensive in equal measure.

And funny?

MountainMonster

I've never understood the appeal of these gossip magazines. My wife buys them every now and then, and even though they are usually under a pound each I don't understand why the content is worth buying.

My cat from hell slapped my grandmother. Really? That is front page material? When I see those kinds of magazines, or watch the likes of Jeremy Kyle, I really remember just how good it is to have a sane, focused head.

arran77

Like others have said, I very much doubt this has anything to do with moral decency, but more to do with commercial decisions.

Readership of the Sun has been falling massively over the years and the percentage of women readers has also been declining, old Murdoch is probably just trying to attract more women readers.

Having said that though, I'm not really sure that page 3 was ever really likely to be a major contributing factor to fewer women reading the paper, there are far worse influences in the world and with a daughter myself I'm far more concerned about other messages given out by the media rather than some woman with her tits out.

southdownswolf

How are ladies such as Jordan and Jodie Marsh ever going to become famous now?

southdownswolf

Page 3 girl Rhian Sugden, 28, also lashed out at the reported move, saying: 'It's only a matter of time before everything we do will be dictated by comfy shoe-wearing, no bra-wearing, man-haters.'

Now if a bloke had said that..........

MisterMuncher

He'd be an idiot too. I'll take the reportage of Page 3 girl's comments with a pinch of salt. The Sun did a fine line in just making stuff up, because at the end of the day, they were there as decoration for the editorial line.

Ben6899

southdownswolf wrote:

Page 3 girl Rhian Sugden, 28, also lashed out at the reported move, saying: 'It's only a matter of time before everything we do will be dictated by comfy shoe-wearing, no bra-wearing, man-haters.'

Now if a bloke had said that..........

28? Bit old for a Page 3 model, eh?

southdownswolf

MisterMuncher wrote:

He'd be an idiot too. I'll take the reportage of Page 3 girl's comments with a pinch of salt. The Sun did a fine line in just making stuff up, because at the end of the day, they were there as decoration for the editorial line.

There was probably less rubbish on Page 3 than there is on any other page of The Sun.

From interviews I have seen with former Page 3 models, the majority enjoyed the experience. Beverley Goodway who photographed many of the Page 3 girls was extremely well respected by the models.

MisterMuncher

The majority of a self-selecting subset is hardly statistically valid as a measure of anything, now.

southdownswolf

MisterMuncher wrote:

The majority of a self-selecting subset is hardly statistically valid as a measure of anything, now.

Do you think that the majority of women really care about Page 3? There is a small minority of women that find it horrifying having naked breasts in a "newspaper", most would just ignore the page if they decided to read The Sun.
As The Sun only appeals to a self selecting subset of "readers", why should it make a difference to those outside of the subset?

MisterMuncher

Because the attitude that women exist as decorative sex objects is one that should be fought, not something normalised by a national newspaper. I'm guessing that makes me pc or a humourless leftie or some other such plums, though.

arran77

MisterMuncher wrote:

Because the attitude that women exist as decorative sex objects is one that should be fought, not something normalised by a national newspaper. I'm guessing that makes me pc or a humourless leftie or some other such plums, though.

Don't know if it makes you those things or not but like I said earlier there are loads more things in the media associated with the portrayal of women that I'm far more concerned might influence my daughter as she grows up!!

MisterMuncher

I don't question that at all. Just happy to have what victories there are, raising a daughter myself.

RideOnTime

#theendofdailyitsasweknowit

pinno

arran77 wrote:

MisterMuncher wrote:

Because the attitude that women exist as decorative sex objects is one that should be fought, not something normalised by a national newspaper. I'm guessing that makes me pc or a humourless leftie or some other such plums, though.

Don't know if it makes you those things or not but like I said earlier there are loads more things in the media associated with the portrayal of women that I'm far more concerned might influence my daughter as she grows up!!

I agree, which must be a first. I have 2 girls and god knows how I will shepherd them away from the overt and omnipresent sexualisation.
Start with toys - Barbie dolls.
In Aladdin, the Walt Disney animated film, the girl was modelled on some actress and the boy, Tom Cruise ! Talk about early stereotyping.
In the media, you get wall to wall images of what a woman should look like, on billboards - it is everywhere. It is only since becoming a Dad of girls, you start to see how their path is littered with the pressures of how they might think they should look like.

type:epyt

But are these 'images' that unhealthy? Look at the bodies on middle distance runners as an example, not what someone would describe as an ideal look but yet these are healthy, active women ...

Too much is made of 'image' ... It's not the end result that's the issue, it's the path you take to get you get there ... and that path should be taken with the guidance (rather than avoidance) of the parents.

You'll be agreeing with DC's plan to censor the internet next!

arran77

type:epyt wrote:

You'll be agreeing with DC's plan to censor the internet next!

It already happens, believe me

tangled_metal

Isn't the real issue that images of women in the sun and other red tops consist of idealised women in the adverts and most of the photos of men are in the "news" as positive images??

It is not the page 3 girls that is the issue, IMHO, because they are a bit of irrelevant fluff. It is the fact that we don't have anywhere near the same level of positive imagery of women compared to men. IIRC the campaign group quoted as "getting the victory" over the end of the page 3 topless in the Sun have a video clip showing people sticking positive images of men on a board from the Sun I think. Then in the video they stick positive images of women on a board. The difference was a vastly higher number of photos put on the male side than the female side. That was a graphic representation of the problem with media. We live in a world where women and men are viewed on different criteria. Women are there to look good or to sell something in advertising. It is rare you get truly positive female role models in red tops and indeed elsewhere too.

I am not a PC leftie but actually centre right and totally against PC presciptions on what I can say, but even I can see there is a gender difference in the media. I only have a son but if I had a daughter I would not want her to be influenced by the negative image of women this presents. My opinion and you may differ. The whole page 3 ending is a loud sideshow to the main problem. We have a long way to go and this is not a very big step at all.

It is still online BTW if you pay to see it so the cynical could say Murdoch was just screwing the page 3 fan more by making them pay up for the online subscription

type:epyt

Positive opportunities for both men and women are there, it's just who takes them and then makes the most of them.

Unless of course you feel the mother of your children is somehow making less of her life than you, a man, and is not a good role model for your daughter?

It's all about choices.

ballysmate

Normal service resumed then

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... age-3.html

ballysmate

People rightly or wrongly complain about role models/ how women are portrayed, but look at the mags that women buy. They are full of shite, most of it patronising shite, but women lap them up. The news stands are full of them.
Publishers aren't stupid, only mags that appeal to their target readership are successful.

southdownswolf

Ballysmate wrote:

Normal service resumed then

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... age-3.html

Hurrah!

ben@31

type:epyt wrote:

But are these 'images' that unhealthy? Look at the bodies on middle distance runners as an example, not what someone would describe as an ideal look but yet these are healthy, active women ...

I think thats because todays population is sedate and seeing fat unhealthy people is the norm. When I was doing a lot of running and eating healthy, I stood out having low body fat. Was I unhealthy? Cardiovascular wise I might have been the fittest person in the room I walked in.

stenard

At the end of the day, it's a commercial newspaper and we're in a capitalist country. Whether or not it helps or hinders sell papers should be the pertinent point IMO. If it was such a big turn off, they'd naturally stop printing it to garner more customers. With what else is available in day to day life, page 3 of the Sun is really a non-issue.

CHRISNOIR

Ballysmate wrote:

Normal service resumed then

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... age-3.html

Can't deny it - excellent top-level trolling by the Sun. And I am a PC leftie.

pblakeney

I do not understand why there should be a problem.

After all, who on earth buys newspapers these days?

Plus there are other, much more corrupting, sources of smut these days.