My Bog-Basic Intervals Session - A question

ajkerr73

1. Load up a playlist of quality tunes which are between 95 and 105bpm.
2. 5 minute warm up following the music at easy resistance.
3. Alternate 30 seconds heavy gear with 60 seconds light gear following the music for 55minutes.

The question is, to ramp this session up to the next level do I reduce the "recovery" 60 seconds or increase the gear in the 30 second section?

xavierdisley

If you reduce the 60sec recovery period too much you'll just end up doing 55min straight, I would increase your effort in the 30sec period instead, which would keep the session the same but introduce progression within it. A session like that is one way to break up a longer turbo if you enjoy it.

diy

It all depends on what you are doing during the intervals. Do you have a HR monitor? are you aware roughly where your HR zones are?

Heavy gear / light gear is not enough info to understand what you are doing in terms of cardio load. Personally (and still keeping it simple) I'd bunch your intervals in to groups of 4-8 and try different speeds / resistances / recovery times for each. then muck about with load on the work part to go heavy/fast etc or whatever get the HR zone up.

e.g.

4 sets of (60s heavy / 30 seconds recovery)
8 sets of (20s fast / 10 seconds recovery)

I personally like doing interval training where you get in to recovery deficit as based on what I've read this can give you the best gains in terms of FTP / Vo2max etc.

ajkerr73

diy wrote:

It all depends on what you are doing during the intervals. Do you have a HR monitor? are you aware roughly where your HR zones are?

Heavy gear / light gear is not enough info to understand what you are doing in terms of cardio load. Personally (and still keeping it simple) I'd bunch your intervals in to groups of 4-8 and try different speeds / resistances / recovery times for each. then muck about with load on the work part to go heavy/fast etc or whatever get the HR zone up.

e.g.

4 sets of (60s heavy / 30 seconds recovery)
8 sets of (20s fast / 10 seconds recovery)

I personally like doing interval training where you get in to recovery deficit as based on what I've read this can give you the best gains in terms of FTP / Vo2max etc.

I use an HRM just now.

Warm up will take me up to 65-70% of max

The first 30 second burst will go up to about 75% of max and the final one will be maybe 92% of max (a reasonably smooth increase all through the intervals).

In the recovery periods, HR will drop to somewhere in the 70's%

diy

If you've set your zones reasonably accurately that sounds pretty good. If its based on calculated metrics then you might not be going hard in enough in your work phase. It could be HR lag though.

DeVlaeminck

HR not really that useful for short intervals like that - use it for interest but work off feel if I were you.

ajkerr73

diy wrote:

If you've set your zones reasonably accurately that sounds pretty good. If its based on calculated metrics then you might not be going hard in enough in your work phase. It could be HR lag though.

My HRM allows me to alter the zones. What are the recommendations for calculating what these zones should be?

Is this the FTP test thing??

(apologies, I'm keen but getting beyond my level of knowledge here!)

BSRU

Ajkerr73 wrote:

diy wrote:

If you've set your zones reasonably accurately that sounds pretty good. If its based on calculated metrics then you might not be going hard in enough in your work phase. It could be HR lag though.

My HRM allows me to alter the zones. What are the recommendations for calculating what these zones should be?

Is this the FTP test thing??

(apologies, I'm keen but getting beyond my level of knowledge here!)

FTP relates to power, Functional Threshold Power.
When using a HRM the "equivalent" would be LTHR Lactic Threshold Heart Rate.

ajkerr73

BSRU wrote:

Ajkerr73 wrote:

diy wrote:

If you've set your zones reasonably accurately that sounds pretty good. If its based on calculated metrics then you might not be going hard in enough in your work phase. It could be HR lag though.

My HRM allows me to alter the zones. What are the recommendations for calculating what these zones should be?

Is this the FTP test thing??

(apologies, I'm keen but getting beyond my level of knowledge here!)

FTP relates to power, Functional Threshold Power.
When using a HRM the "equivalent" would be LTHR Lactic Threshold Heart Rate.

Cheers, I'll look that up.

ajkerr73

DeVlaeminck wrote:

HR not really that useful for short intervals like that - use it for interest but work off feel if I were you.

Would you suggest those intervals are too short?

jgsi

They are for HR to respond quickly enough as you are assuming your HR trace will flick up like a rev counter, it wont.
Use Perceived Exertion instead, so go from steady but not easy to hard and back again to steady but not easy.
Hard short intervals are good for firing up the muscles but they drain.
Revolver has 16 x 1 minute intervals inside 45 minutes, they are not nice.
Violator even shorter even harder, over 1 hour... miserable. I dont do Violator.

colinsmith123

JGSI wrote:

They are for HR to respond quickly enough as you are assuming your HR trace will flick up like a rev counter, it wont.
Use Perceived Exertion instead, so go from steady but not easy to hard and back again to steady but not easy.
Hard short intervals are good for firing up the muscles but they drain.
Revolver has 16 x 1 minute intervals inside 45 minutes, they are not nice.
Violator even shorter even harder, over 1 hour... miserable. I dont do Violator.

JGSI is referring to Trainer Road sessions. Check out the sub-forum,

Violator is only for those that like to feel violated.

But back to the OP, you might consider TR. RPE is a good method of determining effort , HR is good for longer efforts (HR lag, drift and other variables asides) but in my view, power (even pseudo power over HR for the naysayers) is the way forward for turbo training, especially short efforts like you are performing,

http://www.trainerroad.com/how-it-works

First month free

The most popular sub-forum in Health and Fitness by a country kilometre, Over 145 pages.

bahzob

If you have more than a passing interest in training then I'd suggest splashing out on the Time Crunched Cyclist book. It's far more thorough and complete than the answers you will get here.

It's designed for short sessions so should suit you. It comes with full 12 week plans but you don't have to follow these if you don't like. Just do the tests it suggests and pick some of the workouts you fancy.

Also as above HR really isnt that useful a measure for short intervals. It takes too long for it to rise. However on a turbo speed and distance can be useful. You can get a cheap speedo for a few quid and if you use that to set your targets it's a pretty good substitute for a power meter. You just need to make sure that each session you set up so tyre and roller pressures are consistent.

diy

Calculating Max HR (personally I don't use any of the calculations as I have test data now), but these are the established formula:

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm

Calculating HR zones - You Need Max HR and Resting HR (sit quite for 4 or 5 minutes on a day when you haven't exercised and take your avg (or middle minute) HR ideally laying down as relaxed as possible.

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/hrm1.htm

Calculating Vo2Max - the basic indicator of Cardio fitness (the amount of oxygen you can consume flat out).

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/vo2max.htm

However, doing Stress Testing (e.g. Functional Threshold Power test) is the best way to generate a good training plan.

There is a guide to doing an FTP test here and a calculator to use to set up a training plan.
http://wattbike.com/uk/guide/functional_threshold_power

imposter2.0

diy wrote:

Calculating Max HR (personally I don't use any of the calculations as I have test data now), but these are the established formula:

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/maxhr.htm

Calculating HR zones - You Need Max HR and Resting HR (sit quite for 4 or 5 minutes on a day when you haven't exercised and take your avg (or middle minute) HR ideally laying down as relaxed as possible.

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/hrm1.htm

Calculating Vo2Max - the basic indicator of Cardio fitness (the amount of oxygen you can consume flat out).

http://www.brianmac.co.uk/vo2max.htm

However, doing Stress Testing (e.g. Functional Threshold Power test) is the best way to generate a good training plan.

There is a guide to doing an FTP test here and a calculator to use to set up a training plan.
http://wattbike.com/uk/guide/functional_threshold_power

Unfortunately, if you use any of those online calculations to establish MHR or training zones, you might as well just ask your cat instead. Chances are, the cat's guess will be just as accurate - possibly more so.