Futuristic Orange

gt-arrowhead

Oops! Laterally is what i meant.

rockmonkeysc

You can't really tell that by looks, it depends on things like bearing size and pivot reinforcement.

The Rookie

No reason it would be any less stiff than any other single pivot design.

gt-arrowhead

RockmonkeySC wrote:

You can't really tell that by looks, it depends on things like bearing size and pivot reinforcement.

Makes sense. Sounds just like those Le Mans motorbike designs where the rear wheel is mounted like a car wheel, where the rear arm is reinforced/ built thicker since its one piece.

Would that mean that the bearings would wear quicker than say a double pivot design frame?

The Rookie wrote:

No reason it would be any less stiff than any other single pivot design.

This single pivot design just looks a little stiffer to me, because the shock is in a way mounting the rear arm at two different points on the frame, so just seemed to be stiffer.

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-c ... ge-322.jpg

The Rookie

Shock mounting is irrelevant to lateral stiffness as the shock plays no part in that AT ALL, all the stiffness comes from the single pivot and the front triangle and rear swing arm stiffness', you can remove the shock and stiffness will not change at all.

Swing arms can be single sided (as you kind of describe, but I think you mean Mtot GP, not Le Mans) or dual sided, both have benefits and disadvantages and although no-one has done a single sided MTB (that I know of) there is no reason why it can't be done at all (and I've sketched up some designs - left sided for the brake and using a rear through axle as a rigid tube from the swing arm and allowing the mech hanger to be hug off it outboard of the wheel). In CF it may well be lighter than dual sided and stiffer as well, I wouldn't do it in metal though as that would almost certainly be heavier. It would impact on where the single pivot could be placed though.

Not sure how you think the rear shock will affect lateral stiffness!

gt-arrowhead

I thought since its in a way connecting the swing arm to the downtube of the frame, it supports it a bit laterally. But i am wrong i think!

Yep thats what i tried to describe. I thought it was LeMans as Kowalski mentioned it on a thread a long time ago(Kowalski was a bloody liar!) But i thought it was for primarily for endurance racing to save time at pitstops.

Sounds like a cool design. Good idea with the rear mech mount, but a single sided swing arm design probably doesnt really bring many if any advantages performance-wise to a mountain bike, as the weight penalty is going to be pretty noticeable id imagine, and for no good reason, as a single swing arm is to save time for wheel changes, and wheel changes on bicycles are dead simple as it is anyway...and thats all i can think of, and a marketing/aesthetic advantage maybe. Would definitely look interesting, especially if you had one of those Lefty forks up front!

The Rookie

Single sided has one big advantage, on many bike frames the tube/wall is thicker than it needs to be, not for stiffness, but so it can resist impacts better, if you go to a single side swing arm you can potentially reduce the wall area and thus weight (required for that impact protection) while keeping it 'stiff enough', I haven't gone far enough with it to look at that.

mike hunts alpine

http://m.pinkbike.com/news/allen-millyard-part-1-2008.html

mike hunts alpine

http://m.pinkbike.com/news/waki-bikes-of-the-future-cannonrail-jeronimo-2020.html
Even though its a pisstake it looks like a nice bike IMO.

konanige

Does it really matter if its CAD CGI or whatever I'm no engineer but all I can see is that the rear shock and linkages are gonna receive all the crap in creation off the back wheel, I reckon you'd get about 2 miles on the Mendips at the mo before it was so clogged it'd just be a hardtail :roll:

rockmonkeysc

No different to a lot of bikes. It will never clog to a point where it's going to effect suspension performance.
Lets be honest, the horrible, claggy mud on the mendips is not much fun to ride in anyway. Im a local and when it's wet i head for the Quantocks, Longleat or South Wales. Anywhere that the mud isn't 99% clay.

Angus Young

konanige wrote:

Does it really matter if its CAD CGI or whatever...

No, it doesn't.

rockmonkeysc

Orange have replaced the Five, with the Five. This year it's gained a brace for the seat tube. A major upgrade by Orange standards!