105 11 speed chainset alternatives

campag531

i am replacing my trusty 9 speed dura ace with a 50x34, 11 speed 105.
the 32 on the back is one of the main reasons.
what alternatives do i have to the 105 chainset, which like some, i think is uglier than hell.
i have a 7 year old trek ocvl 120 and it will not accept a BB30.
thanks in advance,
campag531.

Matthewfalle

I could be wrong but is this the old chestnut where any chain set will work (so long as the 'rings are 11 speed chain compatible)?

If so, choose what ever you want.

markhewitt1978

Yes, any chainset which will take a Shimano chain should work.

I've gone the opposite way and I have an 11 speed Ultegra chainset on my 10 speed setup.

Matthewfalle

Overall though it's a shame that you're going for 105.

Ultegra/Rival/Force/Campy equiv not an option?

All will be dirt cheap in Jan sales.

davep1

What's wrong with 105? Every review I have read said it is the sweet spot in the range; way better than the groupsets below it and barely any different to the ones above for a lot less money. Does it really matter what it looks like?! It'll be covered in mud oil grease and get scratched anyway...

I'm going for a mid-compact on my next bike, 52-36. I figure I can then run a 11-28 cassette and have a wider range than my current 53/39 and 12-27.

MisterMuncher

Indeed. Given you won't be ordering a crank, you could do an end run around Ribbles no discount codes on groupset policy. That might well drop the relevant 6800 bits, possibly with 105 chain and cassette into budget. 105 is very very good, ultegra is just that bit better.

I've had no issue using a "10 speed" crank with 6800 at all.

Matthewfalle

DaveP1 wrote:

What's wrong with 105? Every review I have read said it is the sweet spot in the range; way better than the groupsets below it and barely any different to the ones above for a lot less money. Does it really matter what it looks like?! It'll be covered in mud oil grease and get scratched anyway...

I'm going for a mid-compact on my next bike, 52-36. I figure I can then run a 11-28 cassette and have a wider range than my current 53/39 and 12-27.

It's the Ford Mondeo of the bike world. Even Shimano say yeah, it's great but nothing special. It's different to the ones above in the fact that it's heavier, not as nice looking, doesn't work as well and doesn't feel as nice.

I'm unfortunate enough to be stuck with it on the commuter/winter bike - compared to the Ultegra (holiday home bike) and Dura Ace (n2 bike) it's shyyyt and I can't wait for it to break so I can replace it with the Rival I have on the workbench.

And anyhow, any gropset shouldn't be covered in grease/dirt/scratches - this is how things Jeff up and stop working properly.

Chris James

Matthewfalle wrote:

I'm unfortunate enough to be stuck with it on the commuter/winter bike - compared to the Ultegra (holiday home bike) and Dura Ace (n2 bike) it's shyyyt and I can't wait for it to break so I can replace it with the Rival I have on the workbench..

You may be waiting a long time, 105 lasts forever.

I presume I am massively insensitive as I have ridden bike with all the Shimano groupsets except Dura Ace and never really noticed much difference between any of them!

Matthewfalle

Chris James wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

I'm unfortunate enough to be stuck with it on the commuter/winter bike - compared to the Ultegra (holiday home bike) and Dura Ace (n2 bike) it's shyyyt and I can't wait for it to break so I can replace it with the Rival I have on the workbench..

You may be waiting a long time, 105 lasts forever.

I presume I am massively insensitive as I have ridden bike with all the Shimano groupsets except Dura Ace and never really noticed much difference between any of them!

Agree completely - it just seems to go on and on and on and on.

I don't think that I'm helping my cause by keeping it judiciously clean, serviced, new cables every six months, etc etc. I think that it may just have to be removed as a New Year treat, put on a spare frame and sold as a complete bike unless anyone on here wants to buy it all for a bargain price ........ Shifters, rear mech, maybe brakes - all in black and all very good nick.

Definite variance in all groupsets, from positivity of change to "niceness" in using - and yes, same level of Shimano cables (inners and outers) used on all three bikes.

None as nice (to me) as the Red on my best bike, which is why I'm replacing the 105 with Rival.

MisterMuncher

Depends which iteration of 105 we're talking about. 5800 is a serious lap forward from 5700.

Matthewfalle

MisterMuncher wrote:

Depends which iteration of 105 we're talking about. 5800 is a serious lap forward from 5700.

Agree completely - have just fitted 5800 on a friend's bike and the shifting is so much nicer.


It's still, fat, heavy and ugly though.

Manc33

OP are you asking this with a plan to stay on 11 speed? Is that a must?

Or do you just want to replace it with "better stuff" that's 9 speed or 10 speed?

New 105 11 speed is going to cost around what used Ultegra 10 speed costs, at least looking at the rear mechs it seems that way.

I am on 8 speed lol, its the only way to afford XTR shifters but also, cassettes and chains are dirt cheap @ 8-speed (and 9 speed is pretty cheap).

This is the road section I know... they are on a road bike.

That Ultegra 6800 rear mech looks nasty! :twisted:

DKay

Matthewfalle wrote:

It's still, fat, heavy and ugly though.

You're not going to notice an extra 150g or compared to 6800. I'd imagine that you'd notice the difference in your bank balance more.

Matthewfalle

DKay wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

It's still, fat, heavy and ugly though.

You're not going to notice an extra 150g or compared to 6800. I'd imagine that you'd notice the difference in your bank balance more.

So we're going to trawl the Internet for the best deals on our lightweight frames, wheels, stems, handlebars, forks, pedals, tyres, cables, plan our training, but our kit and then burden ourselves with a fat, heavy, ugly, not very good groupset that even its manufacturer says " err, yeah, it's ok I suppose" in order to save £50 or so.

Naaaaaaaaah

105. It's just not that good.

Buckie2k5

Not the 1st time i have seen you attacking 105 groupset I really dont see where the hatred comes from. Are you trying to convince yourself that your groupset is so much better and makes you super duper fast?

Buckie2k5

I can really see where your ugly argument comes from though, just look at the state of the 105 mech vs 6800...

If shimano swapped the stickers you would tell us the opposite was nicer.

Matthewfalle

Buckie2k5 wrote:

I can really see where your ugly argument comes from though, just look at the state of the 105 mech vs 6800...

If shimano swapped the stickers you would tell us the opposite was nicer.

As everyone knows I'm not particularly a great fan of Ultegra, but at least it's (slightly) less ugly, lighter, less far and works better.

Matthewfalle

l

Buckie2k5 wrote:

Not the 1st time i have seen you attacking 105 groupset I really dont see where the hatred comes from. Are you trying to convince yourself that your groupset is so much better and makes you super duper fast?

Not really as I have 105 and it doesn't make me faster/slower/more handsome/wittier but it makes my riding my bicycle less nice because it's actually not that great - it's what Shimano says it is: a budget groupset just above the budget line for winter/commuter/mid range bikes.

If you're happy with it then cool, but it's not really that good.

darkhairedlord

campag531 wrote:

i am replacing my trusty 9 speed dura ace with a 50x34, 11 speed 105.
the 32 on the back is one of the main reasons.
what alternatives do i have to the 105 chainset, which like some, i think is uglier than hell.
i have a 7 year old trek ocvl 120 and it will not accept a BB30.
thanks in advance,
campag531.

If you love your dura ace crankset jusT leave it on. I'm pretty sure it will work with your 11sp bits. Happy to be corrected...

Matthewfalle

darkhairedlord wrote:

campag531 wrote:

i am replacing my trusty 9 speed dura ace with a 50x34, 11 speed 105.
the 32 on the back is one of the main reasons.
what alternatives do i have to the 105 chainset, which like some, i think is uglier than hell.
i have a 7 year old trek ocvl 120 and it will not accept a BB30.
thanks in advance,
campag531.

If you love your dura ace crankset jusT leave it on. I'm pretty sure it will work with your 11sp bits. Happy to be corrected...

Yup - what he said.

Moonbiker

Having got a "new" bike recently that has 10 speed 105, & after yrs of people telling me how good STI's are, I still prefer my old 8 speed downtube shifters :?


Im abit dissapointed as I had began to believe what everyone was saying about how wonderful STI's would be compared to downtube. :oops:

DKay

Matthewfalle wrote:

DKay wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

It's still, fat, heavy and ugly though.

You're not going to notice an extra 150g or compared to 6800. I'd imagine that you'd notice the difference in your bank balance more.

So we're going to trawl the Internet for the best deals on our lightweight frames, wheels, stems, handlebars, forks, pedals, tyres, cables, plan our training, but our kit and then burden ourselves with a fat, heavy, ugly, not very good groupset that even its manufacturer says " err, yeah, it's ok I suppose" in order to save £50 or so.

Naaaaaaaaah

105. It's just not that good.

If you can find a 6800 groupset that costs only £50 more than 5800, then please point me in the proper direction. You know as well as I do that this comment is complete and utter rubbish. The difference in cost is usually at least double that. So you're looking at a cost increase of over a third compared to 5800 for a weight saving which is the equivalent of a few gulps from your water bottle. Also, I would bet money that the vast majority of riders would not be able to tell any performance difference between 5800 and 6800 in a blind test.

If you think that 5800 is ugly, then fair enough (eye of the beholder and all that). But to say that its 'fat' is just silly and not a little childish IMO. As for saying that it's not very good, well I totally disagree there too and if you're right, than all of the cycling press and 5800 users must be wrong. Finally, to call 5800 a budget groupset is just plain incorrect.

However, if you're referring to 5700 not being very good (reading through your posts, am I right in thinking that you have 5700?), then I would tend to agree.

Matthewfalle

DKay wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

DKay wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

It's still, fat, heavy and ugly though.

You're not going to notice an extra 150g or compared to 6800. I'd imagine that you'd notice the difference in your bank balance more.

So we're going to trawl the Internet for the best deals on our lightweight frames, wheels, stems, handlebars, forks, pedals, tyres, cables, plan our training, but our kit and then burden ourselves with a fat, heavy, ugly, not very good groupset that even its manufacturer says " err, yeah, it's ok I suppose" in order to save £50 or so.

Naaaaaaaaah

105. It's just not that good.

If you can find a 6800 groupset that costs only £50 more than 5800, then please point me in the proper direction. You know as well as I do that this comment is complete and utter rubbish. The difference in cost is usually at least double that. So you're looking at a cost increase of over a third compared to 5800 for a weight saving which is the equivalent of a few gulps from your water bottle. Also, I would bet money that the vast majority of riders would not be able to tell any performance difference between 5800 and 6800 in a blind test.

If you think that 5800 is ugly, then fair enough (eye of the beholder and all that). But to say that its 'fat' is just silly and not a little childish IMO. As for saying that it's not very good, well I totally disagree there too and if you're right, than all of the cycling press and 5800 users must be wrong. Finally, to call 5800 a budget groupset is just plain incorrect.

However, if you're referring to 5700 not being very good (reading through your posts, am I right in thinking that you have 5700?), then I would tend to agree.

Hi

I'll answer your points infra seriatim for ease.

1. I've got it down to £78.29 difference (but that does include an Army discount) - is that ok? Apols that I'm £20ish over budget.

2. The weight saving is part of a holistic gain as compared to much superior groupsets. We won't bring into the argument the tactile nature of all superior groupsets, the ease of shifting, pride and pleasure in riding superior groupsets, better tactility. Anyhow, if we all thought like this why bother with saving a few more Grammes and running Ace/Red/Super Record and not all run Tiagra (which would also offer a further financial saving)? Now that's an idea..............

4. I bet they will. My wife knows jack about bicycles and can tell the difference. Then again, she won't use anything else apart from Le Creuset, so I suppose that is the culinary equivalent.

5. Everyone thinks that they have the prettiest wife at home, however even Shimano describe it as "an attractive design". Not stunning. Not ground breaking. Attractive. so not that great really. I went out with a girl once. One of her mates was a fat munger but the ex always stood up for her and said that she was "attractive". I think you will find that this word is used as common parlance for excusing something that isn't particularly attractive.

6. Hold a Rival shifter. The 105 is fat - ie big round and horrible. Fat. Rotund. Large. I was going to say moribund but was running away with my own hyperbole.

7. It performs adequately for its price point. Just. Well, not really, but it can be argued that it fits perfectly where it sits - on £1,000 bikes available under the ride to work scheme. If you get it on anything more expensive the you should be bargain hunting better.

8. I agree - if you see above I've stated that 5800 is far better than 5700. But then again that's all comparatives.

9. Yes, it is budget. To quote Shimano again: "it offers an excellent price/performance ratio". That's marketing speak for its budget. There is no denying that it's budget and fairly good for what you pay. Not "its a freakin' excellent groupset and why better anything else in the range when, if they could, Bertie, Vincenzo and Froome Dog would use it but they are contractually obliged to use Dura Ace".

I'm happy that you you find your 105 really good and that you are happy with it. It's just that in the big scheme of things it's not that great. Functional. Yes. Adequate. Yes. Perfect for winter training, commuting, the bike with the kiddie seat on the back and the turbo trainer. Really good? Errr, no, not really.

I hope that all reads ok - I really don't want this to end up spoiling the Op's thread.

M

DKay

Seriously Matthew, just stop.

(Just to clarify, I am talking about 5800).

You clearly stated that 6800 was only £50 more expensive, then try and fudge your way out of it by quoting a discount that 99% of people don't have access to. Then you still even have the gall to say that you're only '£20ish' over budget.

I just don't understand you stating that 5800 is a budget groupset. Hell, a 5800 grouspset is ~£300 (RRP; £590!), while the average cost of a bike sold in the UK is only £223. The majority of the general public wouldn't even contemplate spending £300 on a full bike, never mind just the groupset. With the current Shimano road groupset hierarchy running as, Claris - Sora - Tiagra - 105 - Ultegra - Dura Ace, what do you describe Tiagra as? Sub-budget? Would you describe Claris as sub, sub, sub budget and totally, utterly useless? Claris actually works pretty well.

As for quoting Shimano's marketing prose, that's all very subjective and it's not as if Shimano are going to start shouting that 5800 is their best groupset is it, as that would be very, very stupid. But a quote which reads; "it offers an excellent price/performance ratio", sums up 5800 perfectly. It offers 99% of the performance of 6800 at two thirds of the cost.

Also, you stating that 5800 should only be fitted to bikes at the £1000 mark and not anything above, is again totally wide of the mark with way too many other variables to consider and I'm not going to waste my time explaining them.

Anyway, it's plainly clear from your comments that you are determined to state that 5800 105 isn't a great groupset, no matter what I or anyone else says.

P.S. Congratulations with your wife being able to tell the difference. I guess she falls into the minority. Although, was the test ran under blind scientific conditions? I would wager not.

Matthewfalle

DKay wrote:

Seriously Matthew, just stop.

(Just to clarify, I am talking about 5800).

You clearly stated that 6800 was only £50 more expensive, then try and fudge your way out of it by quoting a discount that 99% of people don't have access to. Then you still even have the gall to say that you're only '£20ish' over budget.

I just don't understand you stating that 5800 is a budget groupset. Hell, a 5800 grouspset is ~£300 (RRP; £590!), while the average cost of a bike sold in the UK is only £223. The majority of the general public wouldn't even contemplate spending £300 on a full bike, never mind just the groupset. With the current Shimano road groupset hierarchy running as, Claris - Sora - Tiagra - 105 - Ultegra - Dura Ace, what do you describe Tiagra as? Sub-budget? Would you describe Claris as sub, sub, sub budget and totally, utterly useless? Claris actually works pretty well.

As for quoting Shimano's marketing prose, that's all very subjective and it's not as if Shimano are going to start shouting that 5800 is their best groupset is it, as that would be very, very stupid. But a quote which reads; "it offers an excellent price/performance ratio", sums up 5800 perfectly. It offers 99% of the performance of 6800 at two thirds of the cost.

Also, you stating that 5800 should only be fitted to bikes at the £1000 mark and not anything above, is again totally wide of the mark with way too many other variables to consider and I'm not going to waste my time explaining them.

Anyway, it's plainly clear from your comments that you are determined to state that 5800 105 isn't a great groupset, no matter what I or anyone else says.

P.S. Congratulations with your wife being able to tell the difference. I guess she falls into the minority. Although, was the test ran under blind scientific conditions? I would wager not.

Hi D,

Thank you very much for your post - it's great to have a debate on here that doesn't degenerate into mud slinging and insults.

Comprehensive reply but I think that you have missed the salient points - again, infra seriatim.

1. Agree that my discount is only limited to the 100,000 of us in the Army and the who knows how many fly boys, their Reserves, the sea boys, their Reserves (shall we hazard a guess at around 200,000 personnel all in?) but generally, everybody knows somebody they could pull a favour in from. As my day job involves going into sticky places and risking getting myself blown up to rescue someone who has been shot/blown up I'm more than happy to order anything for someone who is (I consider to be) nice wants and using my discount. A small bit of discount fraud won't keep me awake at night.

£20 odd isn't really a fudge and I'm sure you could get the same result by using discount codes available to all.

2. We're not talking about the general public who buy bikes from (no offence) Tesco, Asda and Sports Direct - we're talking about cyclists on here who are cyclists - as in know their bikes, know what they are buying and find it a passion. If the average bike on here is nigh on £200, then I'll run naked through Kabul next time I'm there.

3. 105 is budget. Claris is entry level and work your way up from there with suitable terminology. I'm not knocking Claris - the reports I've heard is that it's very good. The Sora I've used in the past has performed better for a £/performance ratio than 105. In fact I'd prefer to have Claris than 105 and spend the difference on saving towards Red.

4. Have a look around - £1000 bikes all come with 105. I didn't decide, manufacturers aiming for a certain price point did. 105 is marketed by Shimano as "no nonsense, reliable and durable". This is, I believe, the same wording as Ford use to describe the Fiesta. A budget car. Much like 105 being a budget groupset. But the Fiesta is better.

5. The test with the wife as blind as could be - ie someone who wouldn't recognise a shifter from a seat post or a cleat from a clit. The fact she even worked out how it worked was spectacular in itself.

Again, it's brilliant that you love your 105 and that you get on with it. It's just than in the overall picture it isn't very good. Dura Ace/Red/Super Record are luxury items that look great, function perfectly and are a pleasure to own. 105 is one of those things that when you smash it up you don't really care too much because, at the end of the day, it's only 105.

DKay

Like I said dude, you're determined to stick with your stance, no matter what anyone says. Agree to disagree.

Matthewfalle

Coolio - will do. Great to have the discussion.

As an aside, wanna buy some 105?

DKay

Nah, it's 150g too heavy and only moderately attractive. I also wouldn't want to be seen riding around on a budget groupset.

Matthewfalle

DKay wrote:

Nah, it's 150g too heavy and only moderately attractive. I also wouldn't want to be seen riding around on a budget groupset.

That's the way - he's seen the light! Huzzah! Huzzah!

Matthewfalle

Just got the price difference between latest Ultegra 11 speed full groupset and 105 5800 11 full groupset to £70.32 - and that's without funny discount codes, Army discount or any other haggling.

Just thought I'd let you know.

Have a fantastic weekend.

DKay

Good for you. If that's the case, then post up the deal for others, instead of just demonstrating that you always have to have the last word.