SPOTY 2014

ugo.santalucia

Slim pickings... in a rather grey edition, where none of the ten candidates really stood out. They had to bring in even Carl Froch to make it up to ten candidates, which says it all... The most interesting this is William Hill was giving McIlroy at 2/6, almost certain winnr and Hamilton at 9/2, so someone could have made a lot of money last night.
Very surprised they got it wrong, they hardly ever do, but probably the event was such a let down that very few people voted, resulting in poor statistical value of the sample...

Anyway, anyone got rich last night?

dodgy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Anyway, anyone got rich last night?

Insert gag about Hamilton's tax arrangements.

tlw1

dodgy wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Anyway, anyone got rich last night?

Insert gag about Hamilton's tax arrangements.

Stevo for arranging the tax?

veronese68

Personality? Wouldn't Sports Person of the Year be more appropriate?

hamish_mctavish

And how on earth did McGinley get coach of the year?

I could have coached Europe to victory and don't know one end of a golf bat from the other.

VTech

Why is it that people post about hamilton tax when he does actually pay tax in the UK, more so than probably anyone on this forum.
He pays tax in 19 countries as he legally must do, he isn't part of any tax avoidance scheme and even pays himself a salary unlike a vast amount of brits who get their "corporate cover" to collect earnings and tax only on drawings.

Its a nasty thing to brand someone a tax cheat when they are not.

anonymousblackfg

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slim pickings... in a rather grey edition, where none of the ten candidates really stood out. They had to bring in even Carl Froch to make it up to ten candidates, which says it all... The most interesting this is William Hill was giving McIlroy at 2/6, almost certain winnr and Hamilton at 9/2, so someone could have made a lot of money last night.
Very surprised they got it wrong, they hardly ever do, but probably the event was such a let down that very few people voted, resulting in poor statistical value of the sample...

Anyway, anyone got rich last night?

I was going to stick some cash on Hamilton as a super safe bet but stopped as soon as I saw he wasn't the lowest odds. Fully agree, very grey but Hamiltons Tax arrangements do not add or subtract from my general dislike of him, fingers crossed he does try and find a music career after racing as it does have car crach (no pun intended) written all over it.

mr_goo

Winner - a multi-millionaire, with the best equipment and best support team - F1 World Champ 2014

Runner up- a multi-millionaire, with the best equipment and best support team - 2x Major Winner in 2014

3rd place - not a multi-millionaire, but supported by lottery funding - 10k mtrs Gold Medal European Champions 2014 (26 years after first competitive race, aged 40).

I think the British public just don't understand sporting achievement.

VTech

money shouldn't matter really though should it. hamilton is one of the best drivers on earth, there is no doubting that.
same as the golfer.

everyone will have an opinion and the fact is, more opinions went for hamilton.

mr_goo

VTech wrote:

money shouldn't matter really though should it. hamilton is one of the best drivers on earth, there is no doubting that.
same as the golfer.

everyone will have an opinion and the fact is, more opinions went for hamilton.

Money does help in providing the best set up for your sporting endeavours. Not sure that Hamilton would have been competitive in a Caterham. Ergo, money/backing from Mercedes ensured the best car and it was either Hamilton or Rosberg to be world champ. They couldn't fail.

VTech

I think you underestimate the feedback from the drivers, that plays a huge roll in gaining pace.
Its a fact that the best driver in a carer ham will be beat by a good driver in a redbull or mercedes but if you put them all in the same car, the result would have been the same.

shortcuts

All of them? In a single seater? Interesting :shock:

Anonymous

Mr Goo wrote:

Winner - a multi-millionaire, with the best equipment and best support team - F1 World Champ 2014

Runner up- a multi-millionaire, with the best equipment and best support team - 2x Major Winner in 2014

3rd place - not a multi-millionaire, but supported by lottery funding - 10k mtrs Gold Medal European Champions 2014 (26 years after first competitive race, aged 40).

I think the British public just don't understand sporting achievement.

Why would they?
Most watch F1 and Golf etc. on TV instead of getting off their fat ar5es and actually going for a run.

Joe Paveys sporting achievement dwarfed Hamilton and McIlroy's.
The 'show' is not about sporting achievement anyway, so her 3rd place on SPOTY was also a much bigger achievement than their 1st and 2nd.
All things considered I think the British public did pretty well this year.

Not sure if anyone saw the amazing 'behind the scenes' thing on BBC Breakfast yesterday, but what a tw4t Hamilton was for interrupting Joe Pavey being interviewed.
Not very professional of the cameraman either :roll:

bianchimoon

Carbonator wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Winner - a multi-millionaire, with the best equipment and best support team - F1 World Champ 2014

Runner up- a multi-millionaire, with the best equipment and best support team - 2x Major Winner in 2014

3rd place - not a multi-millionaire, but supported by lottery funding - 10k mtrs Gold Medal European Champions 2014 (26 years after first competitive race, aged 40).

I think the British public just don't understand sporting achievement.

Why would they?
Most watch F1 and Golf etc. on TV instead of getting off their fat ar5es and actually going for a run.

Joe Paveys sporting achievement dwarfed Hamilton and McIlroy's.
Her 3rd place on SPOTY was also a much bigger achievement than their 1st and 2nd on a personality (I guess the clue is in the name) based award/show.

All things considered I think the British public did pretty well this year.

Not sure if anyone saw the amazing 'behind the scenes' thing on BBC Breakfast yesterday, but what a tw4t Hamilton was for interrupting Joe Pavey being interviewed.
Not very professional of the cameraman either :roll:

Got to agree with MrGoo and carbonator, as far as personal 'sporting' achievements go Pavey's far outshone hamilton's and McIllroys, Third place was an amazing result given that she really couldn't compete against the combined might of the TV/PR coverage No1 and 2 recieved. Well done Jo

DeVlaeminck

You have to take the show for what it is, a look back on the sporting year with an award that is part achievement award part popularity contest to pull it together. How do you compare being F1 champ with McIlroy's achievements - they are both at the top of the tree at what they do.

If it's purely about achievement then give it the best footballer every year as 90% of sporty kids go into that - these days girls as well as boys. The field wasn't the strongest but either of the top two would have been contenders any year - if you look back F1 was always been well represented so it's a bit harsh to suggest Hamilton doesn't deserve it.

bompington

You can't complain that the best sports(wo)man didn't win SPOTY any more than you can complain that the best business(wo)man doesn't win the Apprentice. It's a popularity contest that's heavily rigged - not that I think SPOTY is deliberately rigged, but the amount of coverage, a sport's (or individual's) fanbase, lots of factors affect it.
But you simply can't have an objective award for "best sporting achievement" because there is no objective measure for it.

VTech

Hamilton has been at the top of the tree since he was karting at 6/7.
He interrupted Pavey but did you know that they were known to each other and did you know that Hamiltons sporting excellence company had donated money to the british athletics youth institution?

Of course not, its the same reason people slated beckham without realising how many millions he gave away to charities and that each xmas him and victoria went to great oprmand street and bought each kid a present and yet made GOSH sign a contract not to expose them as the people who donated.

Ive said it before though, its the british way, people on the whole dislike those who get on in life and make a fortune at the same time.
Bruno was hated when he won the world title and loved when he lost.

Steve davis is loved now and was since hendry came along and was a better player. whilst davis was winning he was hated,

Makes me laugh.

finchy

VTech wrote:

Hamilton has been at the top of the tree since he was karting at 6/7.
He interrupted Pavey but did you know that they were known to each other and did you know that Hamiltons sporting excellence company had donated money to the british athletics youth institution?

Of course not, its the same reason people slated beckham without realising how many millions he gave away to charities and that each xmas him and victoria went to great oprmand street and bought each kid a present and yet made GOSH sign a contract not to expose them as the people who donated.

Ive said it before though, its the british way, people on the whole dislike those who get on in life and make a fortune at the same time.
Bruno was hated when he won the world title and loved when he lost.

Steve davis is loved now and was since hendry came along and was a better player. whilst davis was winning he was hated,

Makes me laugh.

Sorry VTech, but this is just wrong, wrong, wrong. I could write a long list of people who are very successful and very popular with the British public. People slated David Beckham because of his on-pitch behaviour (the fact that he was a Man United player didn't help). Who hated Thierry Henry, though? Who hates Mo Farah or Chris Hoy? Where is the bile directed at David Attenborough or Roald Dahl? There are plenty of very successful and very popular with the British public. Just saying "people don't like person X because of envy" ignores all the people who are appreciated by 90% of the population.

southdownswolf

I never watch F1 as I find it boring, but I have every respect for Lewis Hamilton. The amount of work that he does for charity even during the F1 season is phenomenal. My wife is a nurse for a children's charity in the south east and he has helped kids with their dreams on many occasions. The charity that she works for is just one of many that Lewis helps out with. I have no idea about his financial status regarding tax etc, but when you see the kids faces light up meeting Lewis and getting to sit in his cars, that means much more to them. Ask them about Lewis' personality.

tangled_metal

Personally I'm glad Pavey even got on the list. She's one of those.runners who just never gave up. She had had a long career dogged with injuries I believe. She has just been on the scene not troubling the top echelons of athletes that compete for gold until pretty much the season past. She has done well and is a true role model in my view.
That is not to say the others aren't role models of course. Just IMHO she is in another league not least because she has done it all quietly without hype or noticeable PR. No appearances on chat shows, no big money contracts, etc. Which is not really relevant but IMHO it adds to her success. I think the one thing Brits can get behind is the plucky underdog. That's not to say the top dogs shouldn't win things or make the big bucks. FWIW I think Hamilton comes across as a nice guy but like all top athletes he's got a ruthless, competitive and highly focused streak. When he's working if you aren't helping him win I doubt you'll mean much to him. Bet that's the same with all at the top of a competitive field.

DeVlaeminck

johnfinch wrote:

Who hated Thierry Henry, though?

Anyone who wasn't an Arsenal fan ? Certainly not a personality that many people would warm to.

Actually I don't think Beckham was hated except for a brief period when his petulant kick out was probably responsible for us going out of the world cup - given we had a decent chance of winning the competition if we had gone through he got off relatively lightly.

ugo.santalucia

I am not saying Hamilton wasn't a deserving winner, but he was in a year of slim pickings... he wouldn't have made the final 10 in 2012. he won a championship battling essentially with only one opponent and never really showing dominance or flare. The opponent wasn't even irresistible.. he didn't beat Vettel, he beat Nico Rosberg, who up to last year was nothing more than a promising driver.
In essence, his win will not go down in the books as one of the greatest ever... it was a pretty boring championship, dominated by cars rather than drivers and Hamilton managed to edge his team mate... big deal! Alonso would have won, Vettel would have won, in fact half of the drivers on the grid would have won with Hamilton's car and the other half would have finished second behind Rosberg.

However, in a year where no Brit had the opportunity to excel (no olympics) and those who did were average (Froome) or worse (Murray, footballers), even Hamilton's championship stands out.

finchy

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Anyone who wasn't an Arsenal fan ? Certainly not a personality that many people would warm to.

I've never met anyone who hated Henry. OK, let's change it to somebody else then - who hates Jay Jay Okocha?

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Actually I don't think Beckham was hated except for a brief period when his petulant kick out was probably responsible for us going out of the world cup - given we had a decent chance of winning the competition if we had gone through he got off relatively lightly.

Yes, there's no real hatred towards him, but I think VTech's referring to an old BR thread, in which I (among others) criticised Beckham.

DeVlaeminck

I doubt he'd have missed out on a nomination in 2012 - if you look at the amount of F1 winners of spoty it'd be unthinkable for him to have won the championship and not been nominated. I don't get the criticism of Hamilton - I'm not really a motorsport fan but when I do watch he appears to be an aggressive racer who is willing to take a few risks - the kind of driver that you want to watch. The nature of the sport means that direct match ups between the best drivers in the best cars are rare but Hamilton's record suggests in terms of pure speed looks as good as anyones.

cornerblock

johnfinch wrote:

I've never met anyone who hated Henry.

You've not been over to Ireland recently then?

DeVlaeminck

johnfinch wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Anyone who wasn't an Arsenal fan ? Certainly not a personality that many people would warm to.

I've never met anyone who hated Henry.

It's the arrogance of his goal celebrations - no outpouring of emotion body language of "what else did you expect". He was good but he gave the impression he thought he was even better - nobody likes that.

edit - and he's shit as a studio pundit too

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I doubt he'd have missed out on a nomination in 2012 - if you look at the amount of F1 winners of spoty it'd be unthinkable for him to have won the championship and not been nominated. I don't get the criticism of Hamilton - I'm not really a motorsport fan but when I do watch he appears to be an aggressive racer who is willing to take a few risks - the kind of driver that you want to watch. The nature of the sport means that direct match ups between the best drivers in the best cars are rare but Hamilton's record suggests in terms of pure speed looks as good as anyones.

It's not a criticism of Hamilton... the problem is that his car was dominant... had this not been the case, e.g. a competitive Ferrari... 4-5 drivers battling it for the title... then it would have been a vintage year and his achievement would be all the greater... and he knows that...

It's not just about winning... is who you beat in the process... and he beat nobody, to be honest

bianchimoon

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's not just about winning... is who you beat in the process... and he beat nobody, to be honest

'bout sums it up

southdownswolf

ugo.santalucia wrote:

However, in a year where no Brit had the opportunity to excel (no olympics) and those who did were average (Froome) or worse (Murray, footballers), even Hamilton's championship stands out.

I think this sums it up, not a great year for British sports.

Jo Pavey did well to win a gold at the Euro's, but to be honest, it was a pretty lack lustre field. Her winning time was 89 seconds slower than when she came 7th in the Olympics 2 years previous and 33 seconds slower than when she was 2nd in the Euro's that year.

crescent

I think we have been spoilt for choice with genuine sporting merit in recent years with the Olympics, TdF winners, Wimbledon winner etc - they all pretty much chose themselves by excelling or doing something that no one else had done in recent British sporting history. Ryan Giggs won it a few years back - I'm no fan of football but respect Giggs for his professionalism and longevity in his career - personality though? Hmm, not so sure.
I do think too much is made of the personality label though. We have had several sporting "personalities" who have achieved little of note in their careers yet seem to be adopted by the British public for being cheeky chappies or plucky losers. I wouldn't necessarily have wanted to see Eddie Edwards win it for instance. Outside of McIlroy and Hamilton I would have struggled to make up a list of contenders this year to be honest.
I do genuinely believe that it means something to the winners though, you don't see many people accepting it with a "meh, whatever. Where's my appearance money cheque?"

VTech

bianchimoon wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It's not just about winning... is who you beat in the process... and he beat nobody, to be honest

'bout sums it up

The problem is, you can only beat those in front of you.
There is a fundamental problem in F1 in that only 6-8 drivers are there on merit but thats the way the world is.
Having said that, Hamilton is one of the greatest drivers in history, thats quite factual and I'm not sure of anyone in the autosport world who disagrees with that.

I am aware of the false stories surrounding his tax issues and being the type of person who won't rubbish people or won't sit whilst others rubbish them over fake claims means I often jump up when lies and gossip are being spread.