Zone 2 Training

Alex_Simmons/RST

meanredspider wrote:

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

colinsmith123 wrote:

-Aim for every pedal stroke ‘in zone’, returning with average power/heart rate in zone is not enough

Becoming a "zone drone" is neither necessary, nor practical for many. Aerobic metabolic responses simply don't happen on such short time scales, and it's not practical for reasons of terrain and safety when riding in many locations.

But is there some process that kicks in above a certain effort level that compromise the adaptations you are hoping to achieve in "Zone 2" type training? I believe, for instance, that above a certain effort level, your liver prepares you for effort by dumping some glycogen into your bloodstream. That, I'd imagine, would compromise the use of fat as an energy source. But there might also be some other hormone changes that limit the quality of response to the training. I don't know (hence why I'm asking the question) but it does seem to be a bit of a theme in advice on Zone 2 training.

The best way to improve your ability to use fat as an energy source at sub threshold levels is to improve your FTP.

Other ways of course include eating more fat but that won't necessarily come with the benefit of improved performance.

the reason that doing lots of Level 2 works is because:
i. the primary adaptations are on a continuum with intensity
ii. it involves large volumes of riding

the former seems to be persistently overlooked, and the latter is simply impractical for a large number of people.

jgsi

Can I be cheeky and ask : for a rider with approx just 10 hours per week training time available what zonal %s would be best applicable for base block and then build?

Alex_Simmons/RST

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Does a hard finish to a long ride negate the endurance benefits? Does a high intensity turbo session midweek in Winter damage the gains made from a week of otherwise zone 1 and 2 riding and limit the development of a base ?

No and no. Improving FTP is base training.

But as I've kept saying, training adaptations are not about one ride or interval set, it's an integral of all that you do. If any ride flattens you so much it compromises the overall plan, then perhaps it's not the right thing to have done. But per se, no, some hard efforts won't stuff things up.

DeVlaeminck wrote:

A guy in our club who is coached is currently avoiding all hills to the extent he'll refuse to continue on any ride with a decent climb in it - he's been training almost exclusively on his own for the past year because his prescribed training sessions will never fit exactly with a group ride. Anecdotally he's still a weak rider but whether that's the coaching or just his genetic ability hard to say.

I'd be more concerned with his psychological state. A demotivated athlete always performs more poorly and training that lacks variety often leads to physical and mental stagnation. One should always ensure the rider has enough "fun" in the mix, or that they are sufficiently clear about why they are doing what they are doing.

Alex_Simmons/RST

JGSI wrote:

Can I be cheeky and ask : for a rider with approx just 10 hours per week training time available what zonal %s would be best applicable for base block and then build?

Insufficient data.

All one can say in general is to follow the fundamental principles of:
- progressive sustainable overload, based on recent training and longer term training background
- sufficient frequency of work
- taking recovery as necessary
- specificity wrt key development needs and changes in those needs as they progress
- change the stimulus with a frequency to avoid stagnation
- having some fun

The precise mix of intensity and duration will vary by individual based on those and a raft of other factors.

jgsi

I knew you would say that ;-)

meanredspider

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

The best way to improve your ability to use fat as an energy source at sub threshold levels is to improve your FTP.

Other ways of course include eating more fat but that won't necessarily come with the benefit of improved performance.

the reason that doing lots of Level 2 works is because:
i. the primary adaptations are on a continuum with intensity
ii. it involves large volumes of riding

the former seems to be persistently overlooked, and the latter is simply impractical for a large number of people.

That doesn't respond to the question at all, though. I've got plenty of advice on using fat as an energy source and, after more years as I like to think about, I've been following that advice I believe pretty successfully. I still don't know why the advice often suggests (requires) not exceeding the zone. I'd like to know.

The advice suggests it's absolutely fine to do hard efforts on alternate days - in fact, it suggests alternating fast and slow days, taking advantage of the limited glycogen the "slow" days uses/needs.

Tom Dean

Where is this advice coming from?

meanredspider

Tom Dean wrote:

Where is this advice coming from?

The pbscience.com info sheet above refers to it so did the book I used 7 or 8 years ago (forgotten the title). The book in particular was very insistent so I've always tried to follow that advice on my slow rides.