Switched from 23mm to 30mm tyres- bad move?

Semantik

I have commuted for the past 4 years on a Raleigh Record Ace (1982 vintage) which will, it seems, accommodate mahOOsive tyres under its brake calipers.

Up 'til now I have always ridden it on 23mm folding tyres so the bike has a turn of speed not much different from the other bikes I regularly use, though it's no lightweight and the frame is a bit flexy in the bottom bracket area.

Having read for years now about how fatter tyres are the future and 'just as fast if not faster' than skinny ones, I finally got round to putting some 30mm fatties on today.

However, I remain unconvinced I am going to get on with these tyres at all. I weighed the said monstrous 30mm hoops (Schwalbe Speed Cruisers) before I fitted them today and they weigh over twice as much as the 23mm Rubino Pros I took off, @ 500g each. Yikes!

I fitted them for extra road holding in corners and better pothole protection but am now worried they are going to slow me down to a crawl and turn my bike into a two wheeled tractor. I like to 'make progress' on the road and competitive riding against other cyclists on the commute is of course always a real possibility. And winning is a must.

So I approach the next few days with trepidation.

And will report back...

roger_merriman

Semantik wrote:

I have commuted for the past 4 years on a Raleigh Record Ace (1982 vintage) which will, it seems, accommodate mahOOsive tyres under its brake calipers.

Up 'til now I have always ridden it on 23mm folding tyres so the bike has a turn of speed not much different from the other bikes I regularly use, though it's no lightweight and the frame is a bit flexy in the bottom bracket area.

Having read for years now about how fatter tyres are the future and 'just as fast if not faster' than skinny ones, I finally got round to putting some 30mm fatties on today.

However, I remain unconvinced I am going to get on with these tyres at all. I weighed the said monstrous 30mm hoops (Schwalbe Speed Cruisers) before I fitted them today and they weigh over twice as much as the 23mm Rubino Pros I took off, @ 500g each. Yikes!

I fitted them for extra road holding in corners and better pothole protection but am now worried they are going to slow me down to a crawl and turn my bike into a two wheeled tractor. I like to 'make progress' on the road and competitive riding against other cyclists on the commute is of course always a real possibility. And winning is a must.

So I approach the next few days with trepidation.

And will report back...

quite different tyres, the Rubino Pro is a race/training tyre where as the Speed cruiser is a commuter/tourer tyre.

the Speed Cruiser is unlikely to feel zippy, it weighs as much as my MTB's tyres which are 60mm

Kieran_Burns

I should think 28c GP 4 Seasons would've been a much better move. Pump them up to 100 odd psi and you'd be fine.

markhewitt1978

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I should think 28c GP 4 Seasons would've been a much better move. Pump them up to 100 odd psi and you'd be fine.

This. 30mm overkill for a road bike but 28 in 4 Seasons would be ideal. I run those in 25mm for winter and they are spot on.

Semantik

Take the point that 30mm may be a bit overkill- tho' didn't buy the tyres for this bike, just had them lying around for a while. They were cheap @ £9 each, I seem to remember, so will be coming off again if no good.

In the quest for comfier winter riding I have now fitted 24mm Grand Prix PolyX tyres to my other winter bike (Ribble alloy) which has close clearances and supposed to only take 23's max under 'guards. These tyres have noticeably better cushioning than the 23's.

Also, just for info I found that SKS Bluemels 'guards have better clearance than the dearer SKS Chromoplastics. They have a more rounded profle and there is no rubbing with the 24mm tyres, which I could not get to fit under the Chromoplastics on this particular frame.

roger_merriman

Semantik wrote:

Take the point that 30mm may be a bit overkill- tho' didn't buy the tyres for this bike, just had them lying around for a while. They were cheap @ £9 each, I seem to remember, so will be coming off again if no good.

In the quest for comfier winter riding I have now fitted 24mm Grand Prix PolyX tyres to my other winter bike (Ribble alloy) which has close clearances and supposed to only take 23's max under 'guards. These tyres have noticeably better cushioning than the 23's.

Also, just for info I found that SKS Bluemels 'guards have better clearance than the dearer SKS Chromoplastics. They have a more rounded profle and there is no rubbing with the 24mm tyres, which I could not get to fit under the Chromoplastics on this particular frame.

I suspect you'll fine the Speed cruisers are cheap for a reason, be fairer test to use some 28mm road tyres or a nearly slick CX tyre?

ugo.santalucia

SO much nonsense....

Rolling resistance accounts for 10% of the force you have to overcome, at best. If your tyre was 10% slower, which is a lot, then it means you would suffer a 1% penalty in your commute.

I run 32 mm tyres at 50 PSI... yes, I wouldn't do a time trial on them, anything else is fine

meanredspider

Adding half a kilo to the outer edge of your wheels is going to do nothing for a spritely feel. And, if I could notice (and subsequently measure) the speed difference that Bontrager Hardcase tyres to both my descending speed and average speed, I can imagine that a cheap tyre (rather than necessarily a fat tyre) could have an even greater effect. The Bontragers knocked 1mph off my average commute speed. A colleague measured exactly the same thing - that's more than 5%. I've nothing against big tyres but cheap/heavy tyres are not good.

dork_knight

I recently purchased a steel bike to use through the winter which came with Schwalbe Marathon 35c tyres and whoa, they are heavy.

Once you build up momentum the ride is great, they just eat up the bad roads around the city and they have a wonderful feeling taking corners at speed.

Due to the weight, the sluggishness to get going and anything that goes up felt so slow I popped 28c tyres on as the bike will also be used for club runs so I would struggle with them.

Big difference in feel between the Schwalbe Marathon 35c and Panaracer Gravel King 28c I put on, the Panaracer do feel great though, they carry a lot of speed but don't give such a nice ride over the rougher roads as the 35c at lower pressures.

If the bike wasn't to be used for club runs and I wasn't such a lazy git to change the tyres every week, the marathons are a bit of a beast, then I would certainly tough it out with the larger tyres at lower pressures over the Autumn/Winter.

I guess it will come down to what you want, the heavier tyre would make you push harder through the winter (or so I believe) and they will shave a few mph off your speed (or this is what happened to me) but they shouldn't slow you down to a crawl so I wouldn't worry too much about that ~ Give them two weeks and just go by feeling and not so much by commuter racing or whatnot.

itboffin

One winter I rode my ice spiked tyres on my cross bike for three days 16 miles 1000ft each way by day three I was spent by the time I got to work.

ugo.santalucia

... again, my Randonneur PRO 32 are ov er a pound each... that didn't stop me getting near a "gold finish" in the rather mountainous "Etape Cymru" last year...

It is a case of MTFU and given it's getting cold, it is generally wet and you don't want to have to deal with more punctures than you have to, it seems the OP made the right choice.

Those who advise to use a CX tyre are doing the OP a dissevice. CX tyres puncture like crazy, as they are mant to run on mud not tarmac with sharp debris

meanredspider

itboffin wrote:

One winter I rode my ice spiked tyres on my cross bike for three days 16 miles 1000ft each way by day three I was spent by the time I got to work.

Lightweight. The year of my infamous TV appearance, I was riding 17.5 miles each way with 2000ft (total) elevation on Ice Spiker Pros on an MTB 5 days a week. Not much fun, I'll admit, and not something I'd do out of choice.

If the OP has no choice but to use these tyres, then fair enough. Personally I'd get something else depending upon the length of the commute. In the end, they're tyres and, provided they don't puncture easily, it's easy to say MTFU and ride. Even if they do puncture easily, you can MTFU and fix the punctures.

ugo.santalucia

meanredspider wrote:

itboffin wrote:

One winter I rode my ice spiked tyres on my cross bike for three days 16 miles 1000ft each way by day three I was spent by the time I got to work.

Lightweight. The year of my infamous TV appearance, I was riding 17.5 miles each way with 2000ft (total) elevation on Ice Spiker Pros on an MTB 5 days a week. Not much fun, I'll admit, and not something I'd do out of choice.

If the OP has no choice but to use these tyres, then fair enough. Personally I'd get something else depending upon the length of the commute. In the end, they're tyres and, provided they don't puncture easily, it's easy to say MTFU and ride. Even if they do puncture easily, you can MTFU and fix the punctures.

yeah, but the ice spikers are a kilo each, while the OP is complaning about tyres which weigh half of that. Tyres that weigh 500 grams are absolutely fine in all respects

bendertherobot

I'm not sure he's complaining as such. He's approaching it with trepidation.

In a few days he'll report back confirming that things are fine.

rhodrich

I'm currently on the lookout for some wider rims (having trashed my back wheel in a derailleur/chain/spoke/wheel incident), specifically so that I can go up from 28 to 32 (or 35, if my frame can take it).

The big difference in tyres is not in the width, but in how supple they are. The trouble is, most larger tyres are in the Marathon Plus bracket, which feel sluggish because they're so stiff. When I get hold of my wider rims, I shall be purchasing some Vittoria Randonneur Hypers or Panracer Paselas. Wide, supple, comfortable, fast.

roger_merriman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

itboffin wrote:

One winter I rode my ice spiked tyres on my cross bike for three days 16 miles 1000ft each way by day three I was spent by the time I got to work.

Lightweight. The year of my infamous TV appearance, I was riding 17.5 miles each way with 2000ft (total) elevation on Ice Spiker Pros on an MTB 5 days a week. Not much fun, I'll admit, and not something I'd do out of choice.

If the OP has no choice but to use these tyres, then fair enough. Personally I'd get something else depending upon the length of the commute. In the end, they're tyres and, provided they don't puncture easily, it's easy to say MTFU and ride. Even if they do puncture easily, you can MTFU and fix the punctures.

yeah, but the ice spikers are a kilo each, while the OP is complaning about tyres which weigh half of that. Tyres that weigh 500 grams are absolutely fine in all respects

the weight in it's self is fine, it's what my MTB tyres weigh.

But it's indicative of the type of tyre the Speed Cruisers are, ie a shaved Land Cruiser. Its Schwalbe's active (ie budget) line.

while the overall speed may not change, since the OP is comparing them to race tyres I feel they are setting them up to fail, ie not a fair test of fat road tyres.

markhewitt1978

If you're looking for a racey tyre then you can get GP4000S in 28mm now.

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

itboffin wrote:

One winter I rode my ice spiked tyres on my cross bike for three days 16 miles 1000ft each way by day three I was spent by the time I got to work.

Lightweight. The year of my infamous TV appearance, I was riding 17.5 miles each way with 2000ft (total) elevation on Ice Spiker Pros on an MTB 5 days a week. Not much fun, I'll admit, and not something I'd do out of choice.

If the OP has no choice but to use these tyres, then fair enough. Personally I'd get something else depending upon the length of the commute. In the end, they're tyres and, provided they don't puncture easily, it's easy to say MTFU and ride. Even if they do puncture easily, you can MTFU and fix the punctures.

yeah, but the ice spikers are a kilo each, while the OP is complaning about tyres which weigh half of that. Tyres that weigh 500 grams are absolutely fine in all respects

695g actually. It's the Marathon W***ers that weigh nearly a kilo each.

Anyhow - let's see how the OP gets on

timothyw

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

I should think 28c GP 4 Seasons would've been a much better move. Pump them up to 100 odd psi and you'd be fine.

This. 30mm overkill for a road bike but 28 in 4 Seasons would be ideal. I run those in 25mm for winter and they are spot on.

markhewitt1978 wrote:

If you're looking for a racey tyre then you can get GP4000S in 28mm now.

Is everyone on this board sponsored by continental or something?

Dropping seventy quid on a set of commuter tires is not for everyone.

OP, your speed should stay pretty much the same if your commute is flat and doesn't have lots of stop starting. If you have to climb a mountain along the way, it'll probably be a bit slower and definitely feel like harder work.

Incidentally, I ran 700 x 28c racelight hardcases for the past year on my commuter, with no problems and very few punctures. I still managed to average 20mph on Ride London 86 despite their alleged 1mph handicap (which I was very happy with) and they didn't puncture, despite the fact that I'd forgotten my tyre levers, which would make most other tyres spontaneously combust due to sods law.

gbsahne001

ugo.santalucia wrote:

... again, my Randonneur PRO 32 are ov er a pound each... that didn't stop me getting near a "gold finish" in the rather mountainous "Etape Cymru" last year...

I'm running the same for the Winter and am really only noticing a slight reduction in speed for the same effort over the Rubino Pro 25c that the CX is usually shod with.

arthur_scrimshaw

I'm currently running 32 Randonneur pros on my Cx commuter with no problems, I think they are fairly lightweight compared to a lot of 28 wire bead tyres and much lighter than the Marathon plus in a 28.

dodgy

I have Continental Sport Contact 32mm (wired) on my Day One Alfine. They're absolutely fine. I prefer wider tyres so much that I've ordered a new bike that can accommodate them. The carbon bike designers/manufacturers need to wise up and realise that in the UK at least, wider is better a lot of the time.

markhewitt1978

dodgy wrote:

I have Continental Sport Contact 32mm (wired) on my Day One Alfine. They're absolutely fine. I prefer wider tyres so much that I've ordered a new bike that can accommodate them. The carbon bike designers/manufacturers need to wise up and realise that in the UK at least, wider is better a lot of the time.

They are doing, especially since they are now running 28c tyres at Paris-Roubaix the close clearance frames won't do there. But that's a relatively recent development and is taking time to trickle down.

meanredspider

dodgy wrote:

I have Continental Sport Contact 32mm (wired) on my Day One Alfine. They're absolutely fine. I prefer wider tyres so much that I've ordered a new bike that can accommodate them. The carbon bike designers/manufacturers need to wise up and realise that in the UK at least, wider is better a lot of the time.

Volagi, as ever, are way ahead of the curve. I think my bike will take at least 35c

ugo.santalucia

dodgy wrote:

I have Continental Sport Contact 32mm (wired) on my Day One Alfine. They're absolutely fine. I prefer wider tyres so much that I've ordered a new bike that can accommodate them. The carbon bike designers/manufacturers need to wise up and realise that in the UK at least, wider is better a lot of the time.

I think Guy Martin used the same tyre but bigger size (40 mm?) for his land speed record, go figure....

dodgy

meanredspider wrote:

dodgy wrote:

I have Continental Sport Contact 32mm (wired) on my Day One Alfine. They're absolutely fine. I prefer wider tyres so much that I've ordered a new bike that can accommodate them. The carbon bike designers/manufacturers need to wise up and realise that in the UK at least, wider is better a lot of the time.

Volagi, as ever, are way ahead of the curve. I think my bike will take at least 35c

That's more like it. I looked at a few carbon bikes, one came with 28mm tyres, but it would only allow 25mm with mudguards. That just seems stupid to me. In the I end went for a Kinesis Tripster ATR, it can take 40mm tyres and has room for 45mm mudguards.

dhope

meanredspider wrote:

dodgy wrote:

I have Continental Sport Contact 32mm (wired) on my Day One Alfine. They're absolutely fine. I prefer wider tyres so much that I've ordered a new bike that can accommodate them. The carbon bike designers/manufacturers need to wise up and realise that in the UK at least, wider is better a lot of the time.

Volagi, as ever, are way ahead of the curve. I think my bike will take at least 35c

Pfft, EKE's Kaffenback probably takes 70c, as long as they each weigh over a stone


Thread is making me lean toward fatter tyres on the Canyon...

veronese68

dhope wrote:

Thread is making me lean toward fatter tyres on the Canyon...

Assuming it ever turns up.
I normally run 32mm Randonneur Cross Pro and they are plenty fast enough on road. I am definitely the limiting factor. I was running 42mm knobblies on the Kinesis for L2B off road. Very comfy.

ugo.santalucia

dhope wrote:

Thread is making me lean toward fatter tyres on the Canyon...

I have a pair of Schwalbe ONE which come up at 27.5 mm and that's as small as I would go in this country. Seeing the state of the roads and the tarmac mix used, there is no benefit whatsoever in going any smaller and consequently higher pressure required.
When I travel to Italy I use 22mm tubulars and they work a treat that tarmac mix... not here

That said they have just resurfaced the Richmond-to-Kew road and it's a pleasure to glide on with fast hard tyres, but it's the only patch of fast tarmac round here. Even Richmond Park is too rough for 22 mm/110 PSI...

dhope

ugo.santalucia wrote:

dhope wrote:

Thread is making me lean toward fatter tyres on the Canyon...

I have a pair of Schwalbe ONE which come up at 27.5 mm and that's as small as I would go in this country. Seeing the state of the roads and the tarmac mix used, there is no benefit whatsoever in going any smaller and consequently higher pressure required.
When I travel to Italy I use 22mm tubulars and they work a treat that tarmac mix... not here

That said they have just resurfaced the Richmond-to-Kew road and it's a pleasure to glide on with fast hard tyres, but it's the only patch of fast tarmac round here. Even Richmond Park is too rough for 22 mm/110 PSI...

Whilst we're on the topic, ish. Tubeless.
Incoming wheelset is DT R23 - http://www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/Road-Whee ... -Spline-db
So tubeless is an option. Winter training and light commuting? You're a convert if I remember right?

ugo.santalucia

dhope wrote:

So tubeless is an option. Winter training and light commuting? You're a convert if I remember right?

Yes, but I still see it as a luxury. When you pay 70-100 quid for a set of tyres they seem a bit wasted for winter and commuting. There isn't a market for robust commuting and tubeless tyres yet and on balance I think something like A Randonneur PRO will puncture less than a tubeless tyre and last probably 3 to 4 times as long.
That said, in these days of excesses, I see people commuting on bikes worth 5-6 grand, so you might as well get matching tyres if money is no object...
The Schwalbe ONE are lovely, they don't last long though...