Any recommendations for Winter bike.

webster the dog
webster the dog Posts: 18
edited November 2014 in Road buying advice
Hi, I don't want to use my carbon bike for the winter. What winter bikes are the best and is it better to build it myself after buying the frame or off the shelf. Budget up to a grand. Thoughts please, oh and what's the ride difference between Steel and Alloy.
«1

Comments

  • How Far is too Far
    How Far is too Far Posts: 534
    I am currently looking at winter bikes and so far one of these seems to fit what I am after.

    http://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/cannon ... 14-p229116

    http://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/cannon ... 15-p258000
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Out of curiosity....why don't you want to use your current bike in winter? Is it a mudguard mounting issue or is it a very pricey high spec machine that you want to keep clean and unsullied for the good days?

    Is there a reason you want steel or alloy or is carbon also in the mix?
    What's your interpretation of what a "winter bike" is? For many people it seems to be just a cheaper bike to use in winter, which frankly makes little sense to me. However if you want something with mudguard mounts, extra tyre clearance, disk brakes or any other bad weather or comfort oriented features that will feed into any suggestions people might give.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Something like this is very popular - http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bbd/road- ... BRW&bike=1

    Put your name on it as theres bound to be one just like it at any cafe stop in the winter. Spend the rest of the budget on warm kit.
  • MichaelW
    MichaelW Posts: 2,164
    Self-build is only cheaper if you have a bin full of usable parts; otherwise you pay retail for all your components.
    I ride alu and steel and I'm happy on either. Alu frames are better value.
    In addition to tyre clearance, full mudguard fittings, also consider rear rack eyelets, so your winter trainer does double duty for touring.
    Kinesis TK is the kind of sporty, versatile winter trainer you should be looking at. Ribble, Tifosi are similar.
    Disk brakes take the guesswork out of stopping on wet days.
  • napoleond
    napoleond Posts: 5,992
    I've had a Ribble winter bike with Campag athena the last couple of years, it's been fantastic. Just upgrading the frame now, ordered a Kinesis 4S. It'll be more refined, comfortable and stuff than the ribble but at a big price increase.
    Insta: ATEnduranceCoaching
    ABCC Cycling Coach
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    The only thing I have against disk brakes for the winter is that then the wheels aren't compatible with my other bikes. Its handy to have some spare wheels that you can swap over easily if somethings wrong with one of them.

    Or maybe I'm just a luddite.
  • stueys
    stueys Posts: 1,332
    Caadx Rival 22 with hydr discs.
  • 86inch
    86inch Posts: 161
    I bought a Caad8 105 from Pauls Cycles for £800. Bargain. I fitted PDW guards which work a treat.
    I'm personally not a fan of disks so perfectly happy with it.

    IMAG0390_zpsb33ea6c4.jpg
  • stueys
    stueys Posts: 1,332
    Having had discs on my winter bike for a while now I'm sold. The braking and modulation is top notch but more importantly it stays top notch even when its lashing down, your wheels are covered in winter grime, etc, etc. I would literally get through a set of rims every winter and be cleaning the wheels every weekend ride to retain any brake performance. With discs its just not needed and there isnt any rim wear.

    Definitely sold for winter bike. For my nice bike I'm sticking to my dura rim brakes, prefer the looks and weight saving.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    Rim brakes are fine in the dry and especially on the flat. However in wet weather when your rims get wet and dirty braking performance can be very unreliable and is really not what it should be. We've all become accustomed to rim brakes and tend to make do, but really they're the weak link on modern bikes IMO. The shortcomings of rim brakes are all the more obvious to heavier riders who have the same brakes as everyone else but who require much greater braking power to slow at the same rate as a much lighter guy. The difference in brake performance between a 60kg rider and a 100kg rider must be vast!
    If I was getting a bike specifically for winter conditions I don't think I'd consider anything without disks. Of course you can get away without them but if you're getting a bike specifically for bad weather, then get a bike that's optimised for bad weather not just another, cheaper bike.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Ai_1 wrote:
    Rim brakes are fine in the dry and especially on the flat. However in wet weather when your rims get wet and dirty braking performance can be very unreliable and is really not what it should be. We've all become accustomed to rim brakes and tend to make do, but really they're the weak link on modern bikes IMO. The shortcomings of rim brakes are all the more obvious to heavier riders who have the same brakes as everyone else but who require much greater braking power to slow at the same rate as a much lighter guy. The difference in brake performance between a 60kg rider and a 100kg rider must be vast!
    If I was getting a bike specifically for winter conditions I don't think I'd consider anything without disks. Of course you can get away without them but if you're getting a bike specifically for bad weather, then get a bike that's optimised for bad weather not just another, cheaper bike.

    People have been doing without disc breaks on their winter bikes for a very long time. There is no need. I only know of one guy who is currently riding on discs and that's because he managed to bag a pair of cheap second hand ones for a self build. His verdict? They stop his bike but it weighs the same as a sack of spuds now.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Ive been on rim brakes for 30 years plus. Never had disks and never felt the need ?

    Arent disks more fiddly/squeaky than rim ?

    I do take the point of the disks being out of the mud and puddles but then you cant use the wheels on your other bikes,
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Big value in discs is not having to worry about rim wear, I get nervous when my rims are reaching end of life, so I end up replacing prematurely.

    Once you've tried discs, you might see it different. I'm 100% certain that for anyone who buys their own kit that discs are the way forward. If you're sponsored (even at a shop level) and racing, then rim brakes still make sense.
  • savethemamil
    savethemamil Posts: 35
    Genesis Equilibrium -- very comfortable steel frame, plenty of clearance for mudguards, perfect for 4 season use.
    Had one the last couple of years and it's great.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    Rim brakes are fine in the dry and especially on the flat. However in wet weather when your rims get wet and dirty braking performance can be very unreliable and is really not what it should be. We've all become accustomed to rim brakes and tend to make do, but really they're the weak link on modern bikes IMO. The shortcomings of rim brakes are all the more obvious to heavier riders who have the same brakes as everyone else but who require much greater braking power to slow at the same rate as a much lighter guy. The difference in brake performance between a 60kg rider and a 100kg rider must be vast!
    If I was getting a bike specifically for winter conditions I don't think I'd consider anything without disks. Of course you can get away without them but if you're getting a bike specifically for bad weather, then get a bike that's optimised for bad weather not just another, cheaper bike.

    People have been doing without disc breaks on their winter bikes for a very long time. There is no need. I only know of one guy who is currently riding on discs and that's because he managed to bag a pair of cheap second hand ones for a self build. His verdict? They stop his bike but it weighs the same as a sack of spuds now.
    The fact that people have been doing without them for a very long time is hardly the point is it? This is a red herring that gets thrown up by everyone who resists change. You can come up with any number of examples to demonstrate how silly this argument is, here's just 3 that come to mind:

    - People did without seat belts in cars for a very long time. Should that idea be scrapped?
    - People did without clipless pedals for a very long time? Should they be scrapped?
    - People did without STI levers for a very long time. Should they be scrapped?

    Obviously there are those who prefer downtube shifters and some who don't wear their seatbelts, but let's be honest; these innovations were initially resisted, are now accepted as mainstream and almost everyone will accept that they've been beneficial in the grand scheme of things.

    I've been in a position several times where an accident could have been caused due to poorly performing rim brakes on wet rides. thankfully I've never had an accident and with luck I could ride another 40 years and never have one but I'd prefer to reduce the risk given it's source is so easily identifiable. Furthermore, I'd like to have confidence in my brakes regardless of the weather conditions. My current Ultegra 6800 rim brakes are great....for rim brakes, but they're not as good as I feel bicycle brakes should be and can be.
    I'm pretty confident that in time we will look back with amused nostalgia at those crazy rim brakes that were used for all those years before we decided we should have proper control over our bikes....even when it rained.
  • stueys
    stueys Posts: 1,332
    I'll throw my final two pennies worth in.

    Re braking performance - discs are marginally better than the best rim brakes in the dry. I'm talking about hydro discs here, I've not ridden cable so can't comment. It's a completely different world in the wet. How important that is to you depends on how much you ride in the wet I guess. Certainly I've had many 'interesting' moments in the wet and traffic which I'm not missing...
    Wear and tear - I would go through a set of rims comfortably in one winter season. And would need to be cleaning the grime off the rims every ride to retain any kind of braking performance. That isn't an issue with discs, my Caadx has been up and down the Chilterns the last few weeks without needing cleaning or tinkering.
    Squealing/squeaking - Not a problem, again I'm riding hydro discs which may help.
    Wheels - Initially this put me off discs as well as I wanted to have the option of using my nice road wheels on the bike with guards on. To be honest though I was buying a cheap set of rims every winter and using those and they tended to stay on the bike then get binned when the proper season started. What I'm doing on the disc bike is using the wheels it came with (fairly cheap heavy ones) as CX wheels and getting a nice set made up for winter road use (399 for a 25m wide, 29m deep disc specific rim). I suspect the rims will be fairly long lasting as there is no wear on them.

    I'm not sold on my nice bike by a long stretch, I actually prefer rim's, but on a winter bike that is presumably designed to be ridden in the wet I honestly can't see any real downside in going discs and plenty of upside.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    So basically your Ultegra brakes are doing their job.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Stueys wrote:
    Wear and tear - I would go through a set of rims comfortably in one winter season

    You're doing something very wrong then :?
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    Stueys wrote:
    Wear and tear - I would go through a set of rims comfortably in one winter season

    You're doing something very wrong then :?

    How many miles is he doing a year?
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    dodgy wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    Stueys wrote:
    Wear and tear - I would go through a set of rims comfortably in one winter season

    You're doing something very wrong then :?

    How many miles is he doing a year?

    How many miles is he doing in one winter?
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    dodgy wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    Stueys wrote:
    Wear and tear - I would go through a set of rims comfortably in one winter season

    You're doing something very wrong then :?

    How many miles is he doing a year?

    How many miles is he doing in one winter?

    I don't know. Do you?
  • CptKernow
    CptKernow Posts: 467
    My rim brakes work fine in the wet. Why would I need anything more powerful than wheels completely locked up and merrily sliding down the road?!
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    CptKernow wrote:
    My rim brakes work fine in the wet. Why would I need anything more powerful than wheels completely locked up and merrily sliding down the road?!
    How much do you weigh, what tyres do you use and what surfaces do you ride on.
    I've never once come anywhere near locking up in the wet. Nowhere even close.
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    So basically your Ultegra brakes are doing their job.
    Clearly you either didn't read or didn't understand my post. I said they were good for rim brakes that no rim brakes meet the standard brakes should be at.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Ai_1 wrote:
    CptKernow wrote:
    My rim brakes work fine in the wet. Why would I need anything more powerful than wheels completely locked up and merrily sliding down the road?!
    How much do you weigh, what tyres do you use and what surfaces do you ride on.
    I've never once come anywhere near locking up in the wet. Nowhere even close.

    He's talking about disc breaks.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    Ai_1 wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    So basically your Ultegra brakes are doing their job.
    Clearly you either didn't read or didn't understand my post. I said they were good for rim brakes that no rim brakes meet the standard brakes should be at.

    I know your mission is to be BR Forums chief pedant (you’ve excelled yourself this year btw) but take a wee break. You’ll do yourself an injury :wink:
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    CptKernow wrote:
    My rim brakes work fine in the wet. Why would I need anything more powerful than wheels completely locked up and merrily sliding down the road?!
    How much do you weigh, what tyres do you use and what surfaces do you ride on.
    I've never once come anywhere near locking up in the wet. Nowhere even close.

    He's talking about disc breaks.
    Is he? Are you sure?
    That's not how I read it.
    If rim brakes were capable of reliably and controllably providing enough power to lock up the wheels in the wet then I accept that they would be up to the job (not that you would want to lock up your wheels of course!)
    However, I DO NOT accept that rim brakes are capable of this. At least not with normal brake pads, normal levels of maintenance and typical road surfaces (i.e. not sheets of ice - anything can lock up on a sheet of ice).
  • ai_1
    ai_1 Posts: 3,060
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    Ai_1 wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    So basically your Ultegra brakes are doing their job.
    Clearly you either didn't read or didn't understand my post. I said they were good for rim brakes that no rim brakes meet the standard brakes should be at.

    I know your mission is to be BR Forums chief pedant (you’ve excelled yourself this year btw) but take a wee break. You’ll do yourself an injury :wink:
    Thanks but I'll ignore the attempted diversion.

    As I said - No, their performance is only good relative to other rim brakes I've used. As an engineer I prefer to compare performance against what it could, and I would argue, should be; not just against preceding bad designs. There are fundamental flaws in the principle of rim brakes. They were used because they're simple, light and cheap. These reasons still exist but they're not the main reasons why they're still used on expensive road bikes. Those reasons IMO are UCI regs and tradition/familiarity. It's a valid point that mixing disks with rim brakes in competition could cause accidents which is why the UCI don't currently allow them. But the very fact that's an issue demonstrates the difference in performance is real. For racing the transition may needs to be made en masse but for a bike intended solely for winter training that's not an issue and I believe disk brakes are a no brainer.

    Not being pedantic. Just giving an opinion and defending it.
  • webster the dog
    webster the dog Posts: 18
    Thanks for all the replies.

    Half the posts where on disc brakes!!!!

    The reason for a winter bike is my expensive carbon bike is to be hung up . I am leaning towards an alloy/ carbon bike with disc brakes , as light as possible with wet weather tyres . I I'll be looking at all the recommendations for bikes from the posts other personal recommendation s gratefully received
  • NaishTT
    NaishTT Posts: 47
    Having been through the same decision process on a winter bike I settled on a Rose Pro DX Cross. Does everything I think you are looking for and adds some light off road/cross versatility too. There's lots of spec flexibility as well. Should arrive in a couple of weeks.

Categories